GLEN JOHNSON - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby JC_81 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:14 pm

bigmick wrote:
john craig wrote:4)  He was poor for Chelsea and rarely trusted by Mourinho.  I notice some of the posters who are advocating the signing of Johnson are also closet Mourinho lovers (Mick :laugh: ).  So despite Mourinho being a good manager, did he have Johnson all wrong?  I know it's not as clear cut as that as Johnson was a younger player, but it's worth debate.

The Mourinho question is an interesting one John and worth a look. First thing which is worth pointing out is that Johnson was the first of a long list of very good signings by Ranieri, albeit at an inflated fee at the time. I don't think he'd actually played much for West Ham when Chelsea bought him, so 6 mill was top dollar although obviously as he's now showing, he had lots of potential.

As for Mourinho's handling of him, and "trust" of him. On arrival at Chelsea Mourinho looked at the fact that Ranieri, despite spending many millions, had amssed 79 points in his best season and knew they needed to improve quickly. Principally he did this in the short term with the aquisitions of Ferriera and Carvallo for the defence, and Drogba up top. I don't think it was really a question of Johnson not being up to it, I think it was more the fact that Mourinho doesn't do "five year plans". He's always made it quite clear that his objective upon arrival at a new club is to win the title in his first season (and we know from experience that's what he does).

As we also know, Mourinho doesn't go a bundle on "options" and "possibilities" players, while he also had in his mind that Chelsea were going to play a particular brand of football. This particular style which presumeably he dreampt up on the plane on the way over, was supremely attritional power football in a 4-5-1 and didn't really involve full backs bombing on overly. He wanted defenders who could defend, seasoned pro's who could be miserly and hold out for the 1-0's. A young Johnson with pretensions to being a bomber didn't really fit the bill, whereas an experienced Ferriera did.

Of course as we know, he broke the Premiership points record with a brand new system and brand new players in his very fiurst season. 95 points still remains to this day the best that anyone has ever achieved, even the "magnificence" of Man Utd in a weakened league last time couldn't get near it, nor could we despite our heroics. I jus tthink it was a question of Johnson not fitting the mould of what he was after mate more than a comment on what was a very young player at the time.

It's always interesting though to look at Mourinho's methodology and record, I'll give you that  :eyebrow

Personally I don't doubt Mourinho's credentials mate, just couldn't resist the wind up!

I do think the Johnson/Chelsea situation is worth analysing though.  Granted Johnson was a younger player, Mourinho brought in his own man (Ferreira) without giving Johnson a fair chance and seemed to make his mind up on Johnson quite early.

On the subject of Mourinho not trusting Johnson - I am sure Mourinho made a comment in the press alluding to that fact (although I'm fu.cked if I could dig it up now).  It was a comment about his concentration.  In fact Mourinho made similar comments about Joe Cole around the same time, but Cole seemed to react well to these comments and improve, whereas Johnson still never featured much for Chelsea around then.

You also have to look at the blatant fact that Ferreira wasn't up to it as a premiership full back.  20+ million and he faded badly after a decent start.  He wasn't one of Mourinho's famous 9 'untouchables' as he called them.  Despite this, rather than give Johnson a game, Lassana Diarra (that's right, remember he played for Chlsea!), Geremi, Essien and Gallas all had spells at right back ahead of Johnson during Mourinho's reign.  Still think he didn't trust him?

Now I don't doubt that Johnson now is a better player than his days of the Mourinho's Chelsea, but the same doubts about his defensive capabilities still linger and the Kazakhstan game was a harsh reminder.  Was he simply too young at Chelsea, or does he struggle under pressure? That for me is the big question.  Wouldn't like to be paying 17 - 19 million to test that theory but that's just my opinion.
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Postby Kukilon » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:16 pm

If we pay that amount of money for him we are crazy.
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Postby Penguins » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:22 pm

Well, just like with the Dossena Signing last summer, tells me Rafa just loves Kuyt and think the left side is also ok, which makes him think the way to break down teams that park the bus
is to bring in offensive minded full backs.

This for me is very wrong. Why?

We are a top team that only has to beware of counter attacks. This means the full backs has to be solid defensivly or we get what we saw from Dossena this season.

Our wingers are not normal wingers in a 4-4-2 which means they have much longer to their own goal and help out less defensivly.

I want solid full backs on both sides for around 5 million
that takes care of busniess defensivly and can be relied upon and great attacking wingers at 20 million+ who have a hat full of tricks and create chances both for himself and his teammates..

This of buying attack minded full backs just to help out the inept "wingers" at breaking down teams is just plain daft.

15 million on full backs and 10 million on wingers..??   :no
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Postby DrPepe » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:30 pm

Penguins wrote:Well, just like with the Dossena Signing last summer, tells me Rafa just loves Kuyt and think the left side is also ok, which makes him think the way to break down teams that park the bus
is to bring in offensive minded full backs.

This for me is very wrong. Why?

We are a top team that only has to beware of counter attacks. This means the full backs has to be solid defensivly or we get what we saw from Dossena this season.

Our wingers are not normal wingers in a 4-4-2 which means they have much longer to their own goal and help out less defensivly.

I want solid full backs on both sides for around 5 million
that takes care of busniess defensivly and can be relied upon and great attacking wingers at 20 million+ who have a hat full of tricks and create chances both for himself and his teammates..

This of buying attack minded full backs just to help out the inept "wingers" at breaking down teams is just plain daft.

15 million on full backs and 10 million on wingers..??   :no

10m wingers?

15m fulbacks?

:laugh:  the other fulback was free so they average out at 7.5m

maybe rafa has plans for a 20m LW, so they'll average out at 15m each
:Oo:
"If I put a player in another position, suddenly 20 experts are going on about it. Experts of what, though? I don't know." - Rafa
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Postby Rush Job » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:42 pm

Penguins wrote:Well, just like with the Dossena Signing last summer, tells me Rafa just loves Kuyt and think the left side is also ok, which makes him think the way to break down teams that park the bus
is to bring in offensive minded full backs.

This for me is very wrong. Why?

We are a top team that only has to beware of counter attacks. This means the full backs has to be solid defensivly or we get what we saw from Dossena this season.

Our wingers are not normal wingers in a 4-4-2 which means they have much longer to their own goal and help out less defensivly.

I want solid full backs on both sides for around 5 million
that takes care of busniess defensivly and can be relied upon and great attacking wingers at 20 million+ who have a hat full of tricks and create chances both for himself and his teammates..

This of buying attack minded full backs just to help out the inept "wingers" at breaking down teams is just plain daft.

15 million on full backs and 10 million on wingers..??   :no

Ive been thinking the same thing,if Kuyts the problem then why not replace him?
I said we should of sold him last year and maintained if we did we should be able to get the lions share of our fee back and bob and mick stampt all over that opinion and claimed we would be lucky to get 5mill.
Now posters are claiming we could get 15mill+ and no one is laughing, amazing what a decent season can do isnt it?
Now I dont have anything against Dirk and I always new he was a better player than most on here gave him credit for but will there ever be a better time to sell?
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Postby Penguins » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:48 pm

Well, Aurelio is injury prone and will also not play many more seasons(is 30 I think?)
Dossena cost 8 and he was most likely not bought to sit on the bench.

And we bought Riera for 8 and there is no knowing if Rafa will or can buy and new LW at 20 million.

The facts are Dossena who was the "new" attacking full back in Rafa's eye, or he wouldn't have at the time broke the record for a defender, and Johnson would cost a combined 26 million.
Both attacking fullbacks while not that great defensivly.

Kuyt, who isn't even a midfielder, or a winger( what is he really?) and Reira(mr Average? or no end product) cost a combined 18 million.

Those are facts. I totally believe the attacking should be done by the attacking midfielders and wingers and it is up to them to be creative and make it happen offensivly. Anything else is a plus.
While the right and left defenders biggest priority is to, as the name says, DEFEND!
Anything else a plus.
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Postby redhayesy » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:08 am

john craig wrote:Just got home from work and have seen the Johnson news.  Had hoped the news filtering through last night that we were paying 17-19 million for this player was garbage journalism but it seems to have some substance given that so many sources are reporting it.

You can dress this up any way you like - 'he's young and English', 'he's an International', 'he's had a great season'.  All that may be true, as is the fact that he's pretty good going forward.

I have however got four major reservations about this.

1)  He can't defend.  Don't even try and argue this.

2)  The fee is outrageous.

3)  I've yet to see him play well for England (despite the fact that because he's an 'International' some people think that justifies buying him)

4)  He was poor for Chelsea and rarely trusted by Mourinho.  I notice some of the posters who are advocating the signing of Johnson are also closet Mourinho lovers (Mick :laugh: ).  So despite Mourinho being a good manager, did he have Johnson all wrong?  I know it's not as clear cut as that as Johnson was a younger player, but it's worth debate.

For me, points 3 and 4 above suggest that Johnson might have a problem playing under more pressure, with the spotlight on and when a good performance isn't just a bonus, it's simply expected.  Perhaps that's why he's played his best football at West Ham and now Portsmouth.  Bellamy, Pennant and Keane were all discarded by big clubs earlier in their careers before finding their form (and perhaps their level) at smaller clubs and earned moves to LFC.  None could be called a success here.  I have similar reservations about Johnson.

i agree with most points you make, however just be gratefull raffa has mangaged to even find the funds without selling anyone yet!

as this purchase may be subject to conditions- ie getting money for the likes of doss, & bob. with twit & tw@t still in charge of the kitty,who knows what will happen.

if GJ  is confirned as a new signing then  yes i say he is overpriced, but will also say 'good luck lad' give him every support & encouragement. if he really wants to play for LFC & feck eveyone else, then he has made a good start in my eyes already.

i would be gutted to see bob go, & think that if twit & tw@t had not fecked us up financially, then we wouldn't of had to possibly sell bob to raise the funds in the first place.

GJ & bob would have been great competition for first choice RB & would of been the senerio i would like to have first of. not selling a player like for like. i know we should give the ressy players a chance etc but it's just the whole situation we are in financially that makes it shyte that we have to sell before or during when we buy.
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Postby GYBS » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:10 am

why are people talking about selling one of our most productive players from last season ? Crazy
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Postby Rush Job » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:17 am

GYBS wrote:why are people talking about selling one of our most productive players from last season ? Crazy

Because some are saying the reason we need a FB who can get in behind is because Dirk cant.
FWIW Im not saying we should sell I just thought I would put it out there because I dont completely understand the reasoning of some. :)
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Postby account deleted by request » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:39 am

After a long and thorough search I have decided we should have bought Kyle Naughton off Sheff U. He is fast, attacking and skillful he would also cost less than half what Johnson will cost. 

As Nostradamus would say ..... mark my words.  :D
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Postby Alex G. » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:59 am

Some people here just have a fragile memory. Have you forgotten Masch playing at right back?

WE NEED A :censored: RIGHT BACK, CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE. NOW!
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Postby Espionage » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:19 am

Rush Job wrote:
Penguins wrote:Well, just like with the Dossena Signing last summer, tells me Rafa just loves Kuyt and think the left side is also ok, which makes him think the way to break down teams that park the bus
is to bring in offensive minded full backs.

This for me is very wrong. Why?

We are a top team that only has to beware of counter attacks. This means the full backs has to be solid defensivly or we get what we saw from Dossena this season.

Our wingers are not normal wingers in a 4-4-2 which means they have much longer to their own goal and help out less defensivly.

I want solid full backs on both sides for around 5 million
that takes care of busniess defensivly and can be relied upon and great attacking wingers at 20 million+ who have a hat full of tricks and create chances both for himself and his teammates..

This of buying attack minded full backs just to help out the inept "wingers" at breaking down teams is just plain daft.

15 million on full backs and 10 million on wingers..??   :no

Ive been thinking the same thing,if Kuyts the problem then why not replace him?
I said we should of sold him last year and maintained if we did we should be able to get the lions share of our fee back and bob and mick stampt all over that opinion and claimed we would be lucky to get 5mill.
Now posters are claiming we could get 15mill+ and no one is laughing, amazing what a decent season can do isnt it?
Now I dont have anything against Dirk and I always new he was a better player than most on here gave him credit for but will there ever be a better time to sell?

Good post.

If we could get 15m I would say that its not bad business. But I think the way Rafa is looking at it is: a solid player in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, or something like that.

Rafa is really going for it these next two seasons. He is not willing to take gambles in the transfer market it seems this season. He is showing a lot of faith in the squad that we have.
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Postby Octsky » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:19 am

ok. lets take away the 17 mil, lets say the fee for Glenn Johnson is 10 mil.
at 10 mil, regardless of nationalities, are there better alternatives for a RB than Johnson?
i will believe there are better players out there for a lower fee than Johnson, we are simply not in a situation to pi.s.s away 17 mil like tat.
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Postby Espionage » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:20 am

Alex G. wrote:Some people here just have a fragile memory. Have you forgotten Masch playing at right back?

WE NEED A :censored: RIGHT BACK, CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE. NOW!

I am trying to forget Skyrtl's game against Middlesborough at right back

:O
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Postby Alex G. » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:25 am

Espionage wrote:
Alex G. wrote:Some people here just have a fragile memory. Have you forgotten Masch playing at right back?

WE NEED A :censored: RIGHT BACK, CHEAP OR EXPENSIVE. NOW!

I am trying to forget Skyrtl's game against Middlesborough at right back

:O

Carra against Stoke :oh: ?
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