Liverpool FC Forum

ken_job wrote:Good post Mick. Think thats spot on about the balance

Are you expecting us to sell Arbeloa? I seriously hope not, great squad player or left or right, with johnson/arbeloa/insua and aurelio i think we'd be well covered for full backs. Meaning we could get rid of Dossena and Degen as soon as...and Rafa has a good habit of not wasting time when players arent up to task (like the two mentioned).

GYBS wrote:what about the people who want johnson and like kuyt

sadly they are beyond all help   

bigmick wrote:

GYBS wrote:what about the people who want johnson and like kuyt

Lifes funny like that though. You can be right without actually realising how or why   In many respects its the very fact that Kuyt has the limitiations which some of us have been going on about for a long time which have necessetated the signing of such an expensive full back. Course many of the Kuyt-hawks can't see the woods from the trees, probably because a ginger haired bloke keeps running around a lot infront of them and blocking their view.

It's a funny old World really.

bigmick wrote:It's odd to me that many of the people who don't think we should have signed Johnston, really have a love in with Kuyt. It's kind of like wanting it both ways from where I'm sitting.

For me it's a fairly obvious question of balance. If you are going to play a bloke in the irght midfield slot who is paceless and doesn't get beyond the play, then you need a full on attacking fullback. As I've said many times, Arbie would be fine playing behind Ronaldo because he's solid, dependable and the like (that's probably why Madrid want to buy him). Glen Johnson wouldn't fit in behind Ronaldo because firstly as Ronaldo doesn't defend, you need a proper defender. Secondly, Ronaldo doesn't really need assistance going forward, he does it on his own.

In our situation though, with Kuyt on the right side of midfield THAT'S WHY we need to spend huge money on an attacking fullback. Not even a Gary Neville style overlapping fullback is enough, you need a full on bomber to make the balance work, and Rafa sees Johnson as potentially being the man. If we are going to continue to play Kuyt down the right, then I agree with him.

It's a question of balance, pure and simple.

john craig wrote:4)  He was poor for Chelsea and rarely trusted by Mourinho.  I notice some of the posters who are advocating the signing of Johnson are also closet Mourinho lovers (Mick ).  So despite Mourinho being a good manager, did he have Johnson all wrong?  I know it's not as clear cut as that as Johnson was a younger player, but it's worth debate.

The Mourinho question is an interesting one John and worth a look. First thing which is worth pointing out is that Johnson was the first of a long list of very good signings by Ranieri, albeit at an inflated fee at the time. I don't think he'd actually played much for West Ham when Chelsea bought him, so 6 mill was top dollar although obviously as he's now showing, he had lots of potential.

As for Mourinho's handling of him, and "trust" of him. On arrival at Chelsea Mourinho looked at the fact that Ranieri, despite spending many millions, had amssed 79 points in his best season and knew they needed to improve quickly. Principally he did this in the short term with the aquisitions of Ferriera and Carvallo for the defence, and Drogba up top. I don't think it was really a question of Johnson not being up to it, I think it was more the fact that Mourinho doesn't do "five year plans". He's always made it quite clear that his objective upon arrival at a new club is to win the title in his first season (and we know from experience that's what he does).

As we also know, Mourinho doesn't go a bundle on "options" and "possibilities" players, while he also had in his mind that Chelsea were going to play a particular brand of football. This particular style which presumeably he dreampt up on the plane on the way over, was supremely attritional power football in a 4-5-1 and didn't really involve full backs bombing on overly. He wanted defenders who could defend, seasoned pro's who could be miserly and hold out for the 1-0's. A young Johnson with pretensions to being a bomber didn't really fit the bill, whereas an experienced Ferriera did.

Of course as we know, he broke the Premiership points record with a brand new system and brand new players in his very fiurst season. 95 points still remains to this day the best that anyone has ever achieved, even the "magnificence" of Man Utd in a weakened league last time couldn't get near it, nor could we despite our heroics. I jus tthink it was a question of Johnson not fitting the mould of what he was after mate more than a comment on what was a very young player at the time.

It's always interesting though to look at Mourinho's methodology and record, I'll give you that 

s@int wrote:

GYBS wrote:what about the people who want johnson and like kuyt

sadly they are beyond all help   

 

john craig wrote:Just got home from work and have seen the Johnson news.  Had hoped the news filtering through last night that we were paying 17-19 million for this player was garbage journalism but it seems to have some substance given that so many sources are reporting it.

You can dress this up any way you like - 'he's young and English', 'he's an International', 'he's had a great season'.  All that may be true, as is the fact that he's pretty good going forward.

I have however got four major reservations about this.

1)  He can't defend.  Don't even try and argue this.

2)  The fee is outrageous.

3)  I've yet to see him play well for England (despite the fact that because he's an 'International' some people think that justifies buying him)

4)  He was poor for Chelsea and rarely trusted by Mourinho.  I notice some of the posters who are advocating the signing of Johnson are also closet Mourinho lovers (Mick ).  So despite Mourinho being a good manager, did he have Johnson all wrong?  I know it's not as clear cut as that as Johnson was a younger player, but it's worth debate.

For me, points 3 and 4 above suggest that Johnson might have a problem playing under more pressure, with the spotlight on and when a good performance isn't just a bonus, it's simply expected.  Perhaps that's why he's played his best football at West Ham and now Portsmouth.  Bellamy, Pennant and Keane were all discarded by big clubs earlier in their careers before finding their form (and perhaps their level) at smaller clubs and earned moves to LFC.  None could be called a success here.  I have similar reservations about Johnson.