Liverpool FC Forum

heimdall wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

aCe' wrote:1. the oh so injury prone Robben played 42 fckin games last season.... i;d take an injury prone world class player who plays 42 games a season...
2. for 18mill we would have gotten a very good attacking player... the likes of Sneijder, Mancini, DiMaria, Joaquin, Maxi Rodriques, Arshavin?, Hleb, Ben Arfa, Cazorla, Mutu, Capel, Navas, L.Fabiano...etc 
now add 10mill to that and you're talking the likes of Silva, Teves, Etoo and so on... funny how 18mill is nothing to some... yea whatever !

3. Evra, cole, clichy and Sagna... how much were they bought for ? where they all big players when bought by their current clubs ? name a fullback in world transfers history who cost similar or more money and was of similar quality to glen johnson ? the likes of Zambrotta, Srna, Rafinha, Sagna, Lahm Miguel... is Johnson better than any of the above ? would/did any of them cost that much ?

Some good points on the fullback front and it's hard to disagree, it's a lot of money, I liked the Russian RB Anyokov (or whatever his name is) and i'm sure he would have been available on the cheap cheap.

As for the middies, Sneider, Ben Arfa and Mancini are all decent shouts, the rest of them read a bit like a champ manager scout search and i must admit i haven't seen enough of them to have an opinion. I don't think Hleb would come (or be sold), I haven't seen anything of Navas, Capel, Cazorla, Di Maria or Fabiano (assuming you have?) and as for Arshavin (don't get me started!) I do like Silva.

Not sure E'to is an option, I'm not sure he'd come and play second fiddle to Torres, Tevez would have been nice but even if he wanted to come i don't think we would , could or should match the wage offer he gets from City.

Why are you sure the Russian defender would have been cheaper and how do you know he would adapt to the premiership??

You lot are really starting to me off now. We have just signed a great young England intrnational player for the going rate, yes it actually is, and yet even before the lad has officially signed or kicked a ball you are hacking away at him and Rafa, it's fecking bizare it really is.

Also how the hell do you guys know what kind of transfer budget Rafa has???

Right back has been a problem position for years, and Arby was never the answer, if Glen can do a job for us and judging by the fact that Capello has faith in him and also the bits I've seen him play for Pompey,I feel confident he'll be a tremendous signing.

I get accused of being negative on this forum but fecking hell I am not even close to some of you doom mongers.   

Lando_Griffin wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

He would if we sell Xabi and Mascher...

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

Yeah, curious how he manages to regularly play in a team which has won the prem twice and the Cl once in the last 2 years isn' it? You don't half talk som rubbish GYBS, Carrick had a bad moment against Torres but who doesn't    but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

he is right u are clueless - shall we have fletcher and park in the side as well ? just because he plays for man utd doesnt mean he is better than alonso - he got murdered by xavi and iniesta in the cl and has been murdered whenever he has played for england .

Mr Capello and Whiskeynose disagree with you as do I, Carrick is a great player. You guys are so blinded by hate that you can't truly appreciate football, it's quite sad really.

BTW I'm not trying to indicate that Xabi and Mascha are not great payers but I would definitely put Carrick inthe same bracket, I would not though put Park and Fletcher anywhere near the bracket, they would be way after the full stop. 

aCe' wrote:

GYBS wrote:and you reckon you would get any off them for 18 mil ? add ten to 15 million on top of any price you reckon they would go for these days due to the fees that Kaka and Ronaldo have gone for - Its a sellers market now so the price gets pushed up .

Fabiano - Why buy another striker who plays up front on his own when we have torres and he sure as hell isnt going to go to a club to be a back up
Di Maria - Ill have proven quality instead of the next hottest prospect please - too many hottest prospects have shown to be duds
Navas - The guy cant leave his toilet at home he gets that badly home sick let alone leave spain
Capal - Sevilla have already turned down over 30 mil from him
Carzola- Out very badly injured at the moment so never going to be signed
Helb - wont come as he already left england once cause he didnt like it here
Mutu - had a good first ten games but then nothing and wouldnt improve us
Maxi - Decent but coming to latter years in career and is no improvement on kuyt
Mancini- All tricks no substance
Ben Arfa - Only moved clubs last season and since then has died away
Snejder- will go for 30 mil
Joaquin - you still stuck in WC2002 ? thats when he last produced .

All those players are great on FM but in real life -debatable . and yes i have watched them a number of times .

that post was laughable at best mate... i bet you'd have figured out an excuse if i had Ronaldo, Messi and Kaka in the list aswell.. Pathetic... theres sensible posts and pure rubbish... yours is the latter...
Whether you agree or not or refuse to acknowledge it or whatever it is.. every name up there is miles ahead of what we got in their position... the forwards would demand we change our setup thats how good they are and the wide players are simply much better than Kuyt and Riera..... pointless arguing with you Gybs... you'd argue that blue isnt blue and then ask about pink...

Owzat wrote:

s@int wrote:No mate ..... we don't know he can do the job. He is just as big a gamble in my eyes as any of the cheap European names. He has had two decent seasons with Pompey, there is a world of difference between playing for Portsmouth and Liverpool.

For me its similar to when we bought Pennant, when we paid over the odds for a player who had done well with a "small club", but who's attitude and ability couldn't cope with the step up in class.

At £8million he would have been a decent gamble, at £18million it starts to look like the desperation of a compulsive gambler throwing his last big wad on an outsider in the hope it pulls him through.

I'd stick my neck out and compare him to Bellamy who had a good season with Blackburn and then flopped here. They don't even have to be bad players, just the signing and the money and playing for a big club can be a bit too much for some. I think Crouch benefits from being a big(gish) fish in a small pond, and I don't mean heightwise.

For starters the pressure is on the players to perform more consistently and to a higher level. Pompey don't expect to win 27 games a season so gaffes and poor performances are expected come accepted more often. If Crouch doesn't score a goal every other game it doesn't matter so much at Pompey because they are aiming a bit lower and he can relax a bit more.

I guess it is kind of like managers, taking a fat sam or a Mark Hughes from a small club and giving them (relatively) big club money. They aren't used to working on the bigger budgets, they might spend £10m-£17m on a player, but doesn't necessarily mean they'll do a good job or the manager will get them right. Stick fat sam in a deadend club's manager role with no money and low expectations and he'd excel because any losses are written off as being down to a lack of money, while any wins are seen as genius despite no money. That's why the bitters like to pass themselves off as paupers, because then they can say smeegel is doing a great job with limited resources. Well if £15m for Fellaini is "limited resources" then they should try being fans of clubs where £7m is a club record - it may have been the bitters' record about 10 years ago when they bought duncan disorderly.

Point being it is a whole different mindset and set-up, Johnson can get away with not being great because Pompey expect to lose to the 'big four' and probably most other sides, when they play weaker sides then Johnson looks like a world-beater. The only way to test week in, week out quality is playing at a club that expects results week in, week out. Many fail that test.

I think it's a good comparison you make with Pennant, you can with other players like Bellamy, Crouch, and probably a few players we didn't get. Johnson might come good, but the £19.5m I just read quoted on BBC gossip is about twice what I'd really be happy paying for him and even then I question if he's worth that much.

Even if Arbeloa went to Spain for £10m, would anyone say Johnson was twice as good/£9.5m better? I think I'd rather keep the money and spend it towards a LWF where I think most work is needed. Kuyt produced lots of goals and assists last season, so did Torres and Gerrard, but Riera and the assortment that made up the left side were not as productive. Defensively we conceded only 27 goals, that's about three in four games so not that bad. If we could sign a RB who was a brilliant crosser and good defensively then fair enough, but what did Johnson produce for his "good season" ? One or two goals and half a dozen assists maybe? OK less quality to get on the end of it, but enough to suggest he's worth near £20m?!?!?!?

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

Yeah, curious how he manages to regularly play in a team which has won the prem twice and the Cl once in the last 2 years isn' it? You don't half talk som rubbish GYBS, Carrick had a bad moment against Torres but who doesn't    but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

he is right u are clueless - shall we have fletcher and park in the side as well ? just because he plays for man utd doesnt mean he is better than alonso - he got murdered by xavi and iniesta in the cl and has been murdered whenever he has played for england .

Mr Capello and Whiskeynose disagree with you as do I, Carrick is a great player. You guys are so blinded by hate that you can't truly appreciate football, it's quite sad really.

BTW I'm not trying to indicate that Xabi and Mascha are not great payers but I would definitely put Carrick inthe same bracket, I would not though put Park and Fletcher anywhere near the bracket, they would be way after the full stop. 

aCe' wrote:

heimdall wrote:

Scottbot wrote:

aCe' wrote:1. the oh so injury prone Robben played 42 fckin games last season.... i;d take an injury prone world class player who plays 42 games a season...
2. for 18mill we would have gotten a very good attacking player... the likes of Sneijder, Mancini, DiMaria, Joaquin, Maxi Rodriques, Arshavin?, Hleb, Ben Arfa, Cazorla, Mutu, Capel, Navas, L.Fabiano...etc 
now add 10mill to that and you're talking the likes of Silva, Teves, Etoo and so on... funny how 18mill is nothing to some... yea whatever !

3. Evra, cole, clichy and Sagna... how much were they bought for ? where they all big players when bought by their current clubs ? name a fullback in world transfers history who cost similar or more money and was of similar quality to glen johnson ? the likes of Zambrotta, Srna, Rafinha, Sagna, Lahm Miguel... is Johnson better than any of the above ? would/did any of them cost that much ?

Some good points on the fullback front and it's hard to disagree, it's a lot of money, I liked the Russian RB Anyokov (or whatever his name is) and i'm sure he would have been available on the cheap cheap.

As for the middies, Sneider, Ben Arfa and Mancini are all decent shouts, the rest of them read a bit like a champ manager scout search and i must admit i haven't seen enough of them to have an opinion. I don't think Hleb would come (or be sold), I haven't seen anything of Navas, Capel, Cazorla, Di Maria or Fabiano (assuming you have?) and as for Arshavin (don't get me started!) I do like Silva.

Not sure E'to is an option, I'm not sure he'd come and play second fiddle to Torres, Tevez would have been nice but even if he wanted to come i don't think we would , could or should match the wage offer he gets from City.

Why are you sure the Russian defender would have been cheaper and how do you know he would adapt to the premiership??

You lot are really starting to me off now. We have just signed a great young England intrnational player for the going rate, yes it actually is, and yet even before the lad has officially signed or kicked a ball you are hacking away at him and Rafa, it's fecking bizare it really is.

Also how the hell do you guys know what kind of transfer budget Rafa has???

Right back has been a problem position for years, and Arby was never the answer, if Glen can do a job for us and judging by the fact that Capello has faith in him and also the bits I've seen him play for Pompey,I feel confident he'll be a tremendous signing.

I get accused of being negative on this forum but fecking hell I am not even close to some of you doom mongers.   

thats a pathetic attempt to earn browny points buddy...
and no it isnt the going rate.. its a laughable ridiculous price ... Luke young is an england international... dont see Chelsea bidding 20mil for him do you ?.... no one is saying hes a bad player or he''ll do badly... main concerns are about the fee paid... wanna argue that then cool... go ahead... wanna pick on posters for having an opinion then get to fck, kindly.

Yeah because I'm famous for brown nosing on this forum aren't I mate, oh hang on I seem to have 4 cards the same as you, you tit!! 

I ordinarily agree with your views Ace and normally disagree with GYBS but lately things are getting confusing. 

Don't take it personally just because my opinion differs from yours.

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

Yeah, curious how he manages to regularly play in a team which has won the prem twice and the Cl once in the last 2 years isn' it? You don't half talk som rubbish GYBS, Carrick had a bad moment against Torres but who doesn't    but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

he is right u are clueless - shall we have fletcher and park in the side as well ? just because he plays for man utd doesnt mean he is better than alonso - he got murdered by xavi and iniesta in the cl and has been murdered whenever he has played for england .

Mr Capello and Whiskeynose disagree with you as do I, Carrick is a great player. You guys are so blinded by hate that you can't truly appreciate football, it's quite sad really.

BTW I'm not trying to indicate that Xabi and Mascha are not great payers but I would definitely put Carrick inthe same bracket, I would not though put Park and Fletcher anywhere near the bracket, they would be way after the full stop. 

blinded by hate ?!? capello doesnt start carrick - he is behind others in the start list yet Xabi starts for the best national team in the world and masher is captain of one of the best teams in the world .

Are you talking about the Argentina team that got annihilated by Ecuador??   

And so we are back to yo not bothering to read my posts properly GYBS.   

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

Yeah, curious how he manages to regularly play in a team which has won the prem twice and the Cl once in the last 2 years isn' it? You don't half talk som rubbish GYBS, Carrick had a bad moment against Torres but who doesn't    but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

he is right u are clueless - shall we have fletcher and park in the side as well ? just because he plays for man utd doesnt mean he is better than alonso - he got murdered by xavi and iniesta in the cl and has been murdered whenever he has played for england .

Mr Capello and Whiskeynose disagree with you as do I, Carrick is a great player. You guys are so blinded by hate that you can't truly appreciate football, it's quite sad really.

BTW I'm not trying to indicate that Xabi and Mascha are not great payers but I would definitely put Carrick inthe same bracket, I would not though put Park and Fletcher anywhere near the bracket, they would be way after the full stop. 

heimdall wrote:

aCe' wrote:

GYBS wrote:and you reckon you would get any off them for 18 mil ? add ten to 15 million on top of any price you reckon they would go for these days due to the fees that Kaka and Ronaldo have gone for - Its a sellers market now so the price gets pushed up .

Fabiano - Why buy another striker who plays up front on his own when we have torres and he sure as hell isnt going to go to a club to be a back up
Di Maria - Ill have proven quality instead of the next hottest prospect please - too many hottest prospects have shown to be duds
Navas - The guy cant leave his toilet at home he gets that badly home sick let alone leave spain
Capal - Sevilla have already turned down over 30 mil from him
Carzola- Out very badly injured at the moment so never going to be signed
Helb - wont come as he already left england once cause he didnt like it here
Mutu - had a good first ten games but then nothing and wouldnt improve us
Maxi - Decent but coming to latter years in career and is no improvement on kuyt
Mancini- All tricks no substance
Ben Arfa - Only moved clubs last season and since then has died away
Snejder- will go for 30 mil
Joaquin - you still stuck in WC2002 ? thats when he last produced .

All those players are great on FM but in real life -debatable . and yes i have watched them a number of times .

that post was laughable at best mate... i bet you'd have figured out an excuse if i had Ronaldo, Messi and Kaka in the list aswell.. Pathetic... theres sensible posts and pure rubbish... yours is the latter...
Whether you agree or not or refuse to acknowledge it or whatever it is.. every name up there is miles ahead of what we got in their position... the forwards would demand we change our setup thats how good they are and the wide players are simply much better than Kuyt and Riera..... pointless arguing with you Gybs... you'd argue that blue isnt blue and then ask about pink...

Your valuations are laugable Ace, you are way way off the mark. Prices are super inflated at the moment and you wouldn't come close to signing a lot of those players for the money you mention, although they are all tempting players 

i dont think the valuations are ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination... only ridiculous thing down here is that we'r paying 18mill for johnson.. we move on though..... good player and lets try to bring someone else further up now..

heimdall wrote:   but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

Dont be soft now Heimdall , Carrick instead of Xabi 

Different class imo

ho11ywood1 wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:

heimdall wrote:

GYBS wrote:Carrick has been shown up plenty of times when playing against a high level of opposition . he wouldnt get into our team

Yeah, curious how he manages to regularly play in a team which has won the prem twice and the Cl once in the last 2 years isn' it? You don't half talk som rubbish GYBS, Carrick had a bad moment against Torres but who doesn't    but that aside he is a very very good midfielder and I would almost rather have him in my side than Alonso, becuase Carrick is a great passer of the ball and reader of the game like Alonso but he also has a hell of a shot on him.

he is right u are clueless - shall we have fletcher and park in the side as well ? just because he plays for man utd doesnt mean he is better than alonso - he got murdered by xavi and iniesta in the cl and has been murdered whenever he has played for england .

Mr Capello and Whiskeynose disagree with you as do I, Carrick is a great player. You guys are so blinded by hate that you can't truly appreciate football, it's quite sad really.

BTW I'm not trying to indicate that Xabi and Mascha are not great payers but I would definitely put Carrick inthe same bracket, I would not though put Park and Fletcher anywhere near the bracket, they would be way after the full stop. 

When does Carrick ever get in Capello's side? oh right yeah thats right when we have injuries...

It's got nothing to do with any hatred at all.  You come out with a stupid comment that Carrick would get into Liverpool's midfield which is utter boll.ocks!!

dawson99 wrote:I'm happy with the buy, lets get the players we need and win this fecking league.

aCe' wrote:only ridiculous thing down here is that we'r paying 18mill for johnson.. we move on though..... good player and lets try to bring someone else further up now..