Liverpool FC Forum

MASTER wrote:

heimdall wrote:I'd be interested to know if the people who are slagging off Babel support Kuyt, in my opinion Babel is a good player and one which will only get better whereas Kuyt despite a good game on Saturday is unlikely to improve and is at best a decent squad player. A lot of football is about game intelligence and that comes from experience which most 19 years olds don't have too much of. In my opinion it is this expereience which is sometimes lacking for Babel but I see a lot of improvement so far this season.

AGREE totally with this post.

By the way there have been plenty of Premier League players who have improved greatly after that 16-19 age range, such as Lampard, Zamora, Heskey, Ljungberg, Pires, Henry and probably another hundred examples, so people who can't see this are deluded, especially those called Stu.

So what did Lampard improve on then? What did Heskey, Pires and Henry improve on then?

What were they bad at and become better at, to what degree did they improve?

Again, a clueless of a post which has absoloutely no idea about football.

Performing to a system, playing a tactical game, having a manager getting the best of you and a players ability are all very different things. As are confidence, training and learning the game as a player.

Fo Dne wrote:What I'm saying is Owen didn't become any quicker at 22 than he was at 17. What I'm saying is Kaka was playing in a different continent when he was younger.

Players don't "gain attributes they never have". How many times do I have to say this point? How much evidence do you all need to see the stupidity in what you're saying?
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You can't make a great player out of , you can take a great player and get him to play to his strengths and teach him how to play in a system, which improves performance, but you can't make a rubbish player a good one. Anyone who thinks you can,doesn't understand football.

No Stu , thats what you're saying now . Earlier you said and I quote (again)

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

Now I'm not arguing about your opinion of Babels talent or even your statement that "You can't make a great player out of . I do however totally disagree with your original statement that "players hardly improve after 19", the inference being that if they don't already have it they never will, in terms of pure raw talent you may have a point but to suggest that a player (irrespective of their level of talent) won't get better with experience is in my opinion rubbish.

woof woof ! wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:What I'm saying is Owen didn't become any quicker at 22 than he was at 17. What I'm saying is Kaka was playing in a different continent when he was younger.

Players don't "gain attributes they never have". How many times do I have to say this point? How much evidence do you all need to see the stupidity in what you're saying?
............................................................................

You can't make a great player out of , you can take a great player and get him to play to his strengths and teach him how to play in a system, which improves performance, but you can't make a rubbish player a good one. Anyone who thinks you can,doesn't understand football.

No Stu , thats what you're saying now . Earlier you said and I quote (again)

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

Now I'm not arguing about your opinion of Babels talent or even your statement that "You can't make a great player out of . I do however totally disagree with your original statement that "players hardly improve after 19", the inference being that if they don't already have it they never will, in terms of pure raw talent you may have a point but to suggest that a player (irrespective of their level of talent) won't get better with experience is in my opinion rubbish.

Fo Dne wrote:Name a player who has?

Players don't become stronger, quicker, more intelligent, improve their touch... etc etc.

They learn how to use what they have, they get played in systems that suit them.

Jamie Carragher's the common example. Still the same player, just played in his natural position over the last few years with a good partner who complimented him in Hyypia and a right back who done the basics right and made his life easier. Carragher's a good player, but not a great one, his confidence and influence over the team improved, but his reading of the game, ability to tackle and mark players and win headers all pretty much stayed the same.

He is now employed in a tatical system which he suits, he's well drilled and he's got players around him which compliment him. That doesn't mean he's improved as an individual player. I remember when he was a kid playing at the back with McAteer, Babb and Matteo you could see how good he was then, just that the others around him made him look bad, he had to much responsibility and no-one to help him use his strengths.

Fo Dne wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

Paul C wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:^  What the hell's so funny Dne?  He scored 10 goals for us last season and he wasn't even a regular.  Babel may not be a great header of the ball like Ronaldo, but he's on the same level when it comes to dribbling and finishing.

Are you having a laugh, the lad is when it comes to goin past someone, even the right back for Havent & Waterlooville last season had Babel in his back pocket!! he loses the ball far too easily and his passin is as bad as Traore's was, the fact of the matter is we paid £11m for him and even though he is young his fundamentals are lacking and if he doesnt start to improve then I think he'll be sold next season, problem being is that we'd lose a lot of money on him, if someone made a bit of £8m then I think Rafa would get rid!

He should stick to dodgy rap videos 

Damn, am I the only one that has seen vast improvement in Babel's game this season?  I watched him rip Manure and Mairselle defenders new , but yet you say that he can't beat defenders?  I think that I'll just quit posting in this thread because some posters clearly have something against this guy.

He done ok against United, so what?

What about every other game this season where he's been absoloutely awful. Especially Crewe the other week... where he played in his "supposedly favoured position". As for ripping Marseille a new , you've got to be joking lad. His contribution to the game was very minimal.

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

He's also nowhere near the same class of player as Luis Garcia who had a brain and flair and could score important goals on a regular basis against anyone.

andy_g wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:Name a player who has?

Players don't become stronger, quicker, more intelligent, improve their touch... etc etc.

They learn how to use what they have, they get played in systems that suit them.

Jamie Carragher's the common example. Still the same player, just played in his natural position over the last few years with a good partner who complimented him in Hyypia and a right back who done the basics right and made his life easier. Carragher's a good player, but not a great one, his confidence and influence over the team improved, but his reading of the game, ability to tackle and mark players and win headers all pretty much stayed the same.

He is now employed in a tatical system which he suits, he's well drilled and he's got players around him which compliment him. That doesn't mean he's improved as an individual player. I remember when he was a kid playing at the back with McAteer, Babb and Matteo you could see how good he was then, just that the others around him made him look bad, he had to much responsibility and no-one to help him use his strengths.

come on, stu. i've been trying to go along with your opinions on this for a while but you don't really believe this do you?

a player can't become stronger no matter how much training he does? its proven that just about any other kind of athlete can become stronger and improve their performance so why not a footballer?

a player can't become quicker? why not? is any sprinter born that fast or does training and practice and good coaching have something to do with it aswell? are footballers any different?

a player can't become more intelligent? when just about anybody in any other profession can develop their intelligence for their work why should a footballer be any different?

a player can't improve their touch? then whats the point of practising? why coach them any technical skills at all?

the basic argument that you can't turn a rubbish footballer into a great one is certainly true. but the belief that a footballer will never get better with the correct, guidance, training, coaching, call it whatever you like has got to be rubbish.

7_Kewell wrote:

Fo Dne wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:

Paul C wrote:

ruskiy playmaker wrote:^  What the hell's so funny Dne?  He scored 10 goals for us last season and he wasn't even a regular.  Babel may not be a great header of the ball like Ronaldo, but he's on the same level when it comes to dribbling and finishing.

Are you having a laugh, the lad is when it comes to goin past someone, even the right back for Havent & Waterlooville last season had Babel in his back pocket!! he loses the ball far too easily and his passin is as bad as Traore's was, the fact of the matter is we paid £11m for him and even though he is young his fundamentals are lacking and if he doesnt start to improve then I think he'll be sold next season, problem being is that we'd lose a lot of money on him, if someone made a bit of £8m then I think Rafa would get rid!

He should stick to dodgy rap videos 

Damn, am I the only one that has seen vast improvement in Babel's game this season?  I watched him rip Manure and Mairselle defenders new , but yet you say that he can't beat defenders?  I think that I'll just quit posting in this thread because some posters clearly have something against this guy.

He done ok against United, so what?

What about every other game this season where he's been absoloutely awful. Especially Crewe the other week... where he played in his "supposedly favoured position". As for ripping Marseille a new , you've got to be joking lad. His contribution to the game was very minimal.

The lads not good enough, never will be good enough, never has been good enough and isn't a striker either. He won't improve either, players hardly improve at all, once they reach 16-19(very rarely you get an exception physically like Gerrard), he's nothing more than an impact player off the bench who can occassionally help change the pattern of a game.

He's also nowhere near the same class of player as Luis Garcia who had a brain and flair and could score important goals on a regular basis against anyone.

as much as it pains me to agree with stu....i have to say i'm with him on this one.  I've felt this way since last xmas, when it became obvious that Babel wasn't very good. Poor technique, poor dribbling and godawful awareness.  His goal against the scum was a fluke and on another day it would have bounced right over the goal.

Babel reminds me of Cisse and for 11 million i think he's one of Rafa's worst signings.  I'd sell ASAP while everyone else thinks he's good...get our money back and try again.

Cisse is the perfect comparrison, the exact same situation, over paid, over rated, nowhere near good enough and exactly the same level of player.

Cisse scored 19 goals in a season remember while being played out of position... did you think he was good enough aswell?

john craig wrote:

Babel rapping = s.h.i.t

Ciggy you can translate this one..

RIO (Ryan Babel) 

babel rap at ajax openday