Liverpool FC Forum

by **Alonso14** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:56 am

Wasn't the guy comparing him to other players in that under 20's tournament?

by **stmichael** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:57 am

Incidentally, reading that scouting report whatever happened to Rigters the Dutch striker? He went to Blackburn and seems to have disappeared off the face of the planet.

by **MASTER** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:14 am

Fo Dne wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Age 20

Born Amsterdam

Position Forward

Height 6ft 1in

Weight 12st 6lb

From Ajax

Pace 8/10

Awareness 9/10

Heading 7/10

Attitude 8/10

Tackling 7/10

Passing 9/10

Team responsibility 9/10

Valuation £5m-7m

why is it that so many of you can't see what so many others do.

Link http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/jul/03/sport.comment2

Now I know this was a while back but remember this was vrs lads his own age the best of what is to come.

Now he has taken a big step into the big boys league but remember consistency takes time to foster.

Nothing in football comes easy and its only a matter of time i feel will we start to see him ripping defences apart in prem.

He is just getting used to not only the pace in this league but also the class aspect , We have seen moments of pure class with babel also moments of stupidness but is that not how all players learn from there mistakes ?

So a level of maturity is needed I feel to look at the bigger picture with babel leave him alone back him in ever corner and I know we will be rewarded with a fine footballer , as he hits his 23rd birthday as this is the age most players hit conistent peak.

8/10 for pace, yeah I could go with that, he's no Henry but he's no Kuyt either, fairly quick.

9/10 for awareness? If awareness is running down blind alley's, not playing the pass at the correct time, not spotting the pass and generally running into opponents and falling over than trying to run around them or passed them then yeah... If he's got 9/10 for Awareness what would you give Scholes for example? 10? So you'd say the likes of Scholes and Zidane are only slightly more aware of whats around them than Babel?

7/10 for heading? So lets say you'd give Sami a 10, Fowler a 9 at his best, Torres an 8 and Owen a 7 (who scores his fair share in the air). You're telling me he's slightly worse than Torres and Fowler in the air and as good as Owen? hahahaha

8/10 for attitude? What pulling out of every tackle? Pulling out of every header? Never tracking a man and shooting when players are in better positions and an 8 for attitude? This is just getting silly.

Tackling 7? Lets say Carragher an Gerrard are a 10. Then you'd say maybe Skrtel is a 9. Then Alonso an 8 and Finnan and Riise 7, you're telling me he can tackle like Finnan and Riise and only slightly worse than Alonso? Unbelievable.

Passing 9/10. Alonso 10/10, Gerrard 9/10... Babel equal to Gerrard in this aspect, Babel even close to Gerrard? Light years away...

Yes, that post definately adds validity to your claims.

Complete and utter rubbish player and you're to stupid and clueless to see it, he can't even get in the side. Lets face it, if he was so good we wouldn't have had to spend £10m on a left winger... before you start with the striker excuse either (he's never a striker by the way) we wouldn't have spend £20m on Keane, he can't even get a game on the right for sake...

Thats the three positions people claim he can play, he can't even get a game...

Obviously a top class player, right up there with Torres.

Fo Dne,

Have you got some kind of personal grudge against Babel?!!

He steal your girlfriend or something, then you need counselling!!!

Seriously though are saying you know better than Rafa???

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:21 am

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:personally, I just don't know what the fuss about Babel is all about. He is a TERRIBLE winger.. often tripping over the ball, poor decision making and very rarelymanages to cross a ball into the box.

However, he does score a fair few goals. The problem for me is Rafa is playing him in the wrong position.

Now we have Reira, who looks like a proper winger, lets get Babel playing up front...

although with nando and 20 million Keane, will he get a look in there?? doupt it.

Of course Babel is not a winger in the true sense of the word, but he can play there to good effect in certain scenarios. He can carry the ball over a distance, and has electric pace. He's most effective when games are stretched, hence why he's coming off the bench as an impact player with good effect. Fact is, every good team needs players that play like this. I don't think he's being played in the wrong position by Rafa at all, as clearly most modern footballers can play in one or two positions on the pitch. It's simply one of the demands of a modern athlete these days. Babel is clearly more effective when playing very advanced out wide as he likes to try to skin a player and get into dangerous positions around the box. Just ask Wes Brown. And as we seen on Tuesday, he was drifting all over the front line, left and right causing all sorts of problems for Marseille. He often looks cumbersome on the ball, if not clumsy, but so did Barnes, not that I'm comparing, but his style is somewhat similar. He's certainly no pushover when surrounded.

Babel is a powder keg of potential. Already this season, I've seen improvement from him, and he will continue to do so. Anyone suggesting that he's anything other than a very good, if not very important player for us, are sorely mistaken and will be proven wrong. Well, I think they should already have done by now. I remember people crying about the price we paid for him. Think about this: United spent 17 million on Nani, who IMO, has not even produced half the value for his asking price than what Babel has, and people were bricking it because they'd signed a player from Lisbon with an asking price of 17 million, so he had to be dynamite, right? Bollox!

by **GRAHAM01** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:40 am

Emerald Red wrote:Babel is a powder keg of potential. Already this season, I've seen improvement from him, and he will continue to do so.

i have to agree with you there so far this season i have see so much more from him than last year

watching tue nights game he was strong on the bal ok he lost out a few times but he used his body well to keep players away from the ball and to my amazement he was looking up and trying to find some one to pass to when he did lay off a ball he seemed to move away and WANT it back

i liked the fact he was switching sides and making there players follow him ( again ok he could and should of got back to help cover ) but overall i think if he is given a good run of games he will come good, i have said for a long time i would like to see him given a go on the right side and now we have raira i would like to see this even more so, my only concern with him doing that would be that imo we would need a stronger right back as he doesn't get back all the time and where as we have a "stronger" left back than right back it may cause us a problem some times

but anyway imo he is improving and i think he will continue to do so

by **Owzat** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:43 am

To me Babel is a footballer with a lot of pace, but no single great asset. Gotta agree with Fo Dne, I don't recall Babel doing too much heading that makes me think he's a 7, awareness like Fo Dne said is nowhere near a 9. Tackling might as well not be rated, it's not his job and you'd expect most wingers to be no more than a 5, maybe Kuyt would get a 6 on a good day for his. Attitude is no way an 8, he did not even try to help Dossena on Tuesday most of the time. He didn't have the ball, was on he on the left trying to get it back for the team? And right now I'd say that even Alonso would struggle to get a 9 for his passing, not that Babel passes often enough. His shooting is ok but let's face it, if one or more of his skills matched his pace then he'd be a fantastic player.

Don't get me wrong, I like Babel as a player, but he's far from the finished article and may never be. If there was one or more of his skills to match his pace then he'd have a defined role, the problem is (pace aside) he isn't a clinical finisher, great passer or tackler, great header etc. So he is used where (his) pace is a threat - up front or wide. Maybe if he had a great footballing brain then he could use his skills, such as they are, and still be a great footballer without being the best in any skill.

Emerald - I don't think many doubt his talents, however he's yet to prove himself in a position and he's a very frustrating player. I suppose one question, that sprang to mind as I re-read that, is this - is Babel more skilled than Pennant? I'm not leaning towards one answer or the other, it's purely one for people to mull over.

by **mistyred** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:01 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:personally, I just don't know what the fuss about Babel is all about. He is a TERRIBLE winger.. often tripping over the ball, poor decision making and very rarelymanages to cross a ball into the box.

However, he does score a fair few goals. The problem for me is Rafa is playing him in the wrong position.

Now we have Reira, who looks like a proper winger, lets get Babel playing up front...

although with nando and 20 million Keane, will he get a look in there?? doupt it.

Of course Babel is not a winger in the true sense of the word, but he can play there to good effect in certain scenarios. He can carry the ball over a distance, and has electric pace. He's most effective when games are stretched, hence why he's coming off the bench as an impact player with good effect. Fact is, every good team needs players that play like this. I don't think he's being played in the wrong position by Rafa at all, as clearly most modern footballers can play in one or two positions on the pitch. It's simply one of the demands of a modern athlete these days. Babel is clearly more effective when playing very advanced out wide as he likes to try to skin a player and get into dangerous positions around the box. Just ask Wes Brown. And as we seen on Tuesday, he was drifting all over the front line, left and right causing all sorts of problems for Marseille. He often looks cumbersome on the ball, if not clumsy, but so did Barnes, not that I'm comparing, but his style is somewhat similar. He's certainly no pushover when surrounded.

Babel is a powder keg of potential. Already this season, I've seen improvement from him, and he will continue to do so. Anyone suggesting that he's anything other than a very good, if not very important player for us, are sorely mistaken and will be proven wrong. Well, I think they should already have done by now. I remember people crying about the price we paid for him. Think about this: United spent 17 million on Nani, who IMO, has not even produced half the value for his asking price than what Babel has, and people were bricking it because they'd signed a player from Lisbon with an asking price of 17 million, so he had to be dynamite, right? Bollox!

Good post Emerald 100% agree.

by **Sabre** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm

I agree stu's point on awareness, not Babel's forte.

I like Babel as the typical player you'd use in the last 30 minutes of many matches, but 11M is a lot of money for that kind of player.

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:34 pm

He's quick, strong, shows good feet on occassions and can strike a ball cleanly. He's a goal threat on occassions and can occassional beat players with a good peice of skill, strength and pace.

He also has a heavy and flat touch which allows him to be closed down quickly, he can't also take the ball on the move he always has to be static when he receives the ball interupting the teams flow, he's very one dimensional, he lacks the intelligence to influence games even against the lesser sides so there for consistently drifts in and out of games, he has zero work rate and is a complete wimp. He even :censored:

out of a challenge with the keeper which had he used his "electric" pace and a bit of bottle had goal wrote all over it.

He often runs into players and loses the ball, i don't mean here he runs into crowds, which he does aswell, but he runs into footballers as if he's trying to knock them over. He also doesn't spot the early pass or the right pass and doesn't understand that when some players give him the ball, they want it back. He wastes possession far to often aswell which again, hinders the momentum of the side. He also can't head and tackle for toffee.

He will never change as a footballer from what I've wrote above.

by **JamCar05** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:40 pm

Sabre wrote:I like Babel as the typical player you'd use in the last 30 minutes of many matches, but 11M is a lot of money for that kind of player.

True Sabre, but that's what we need though, if we are to compete with the likes of United and Chelsea. Their benches are often full of players who are way more expensive than Babel (and who are able to come on the field and make a significant impact, which most of our subs bar Babel aren't). But I agree that seeing as we don't very often shell out that big amounts on one player, you would expect someone who cost 11m to be a regular starter type at LFC. Babel perhaps isn't that type yet, but he very well could be someday imo (and perhaps already should be, when you consider the alternatives, i.e. Kuyt and Benayoun).

by **maguskwt** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:45 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

How do you know crouch would have put those away , crouch would not even had got himself the chance with babel did with his first touch , crouch would not have won us a peanlty and crouch certainly would not have scored that goal with the keeper running towards him , giving him no time to aim . Unless you've tried it in fifa 2008 i take it

now listen... there is no need for you to have that clever little 'fifa08' comment thrown at me. I've blasted people for criticising players in an exaggerated and unneccessary manner and I've been called one of the 'happy clappies' for it... I believe that my criticism of babel was fair and square and I've explained my opinion clearly. you on the other hand just came back with that little personal dig at me. You say crouch would'nt have the chance in the first place because of his first touch? mate if crouch is good at anything it's his touch!... and this is coming from a crouch critic. you must have forgotten the goals he scored cause I remember him using his firt touch and to open up and then score goals alot of times... whether you like it or not crouch is a better finisher than babel is right now... there's no doubt about it...

by **Fo Dne** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:46 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

How do you know crouch would have put those away , crouch would not even had got himself the chance with babel did with his first touch , crouch would not have won us a peanlty and crouch certainly would not have scored that goal with the keeper running towards him , giving him no time to aim . Unless you've tried it in fifa 2008 i take it

now listen... there is no need for you to have that clever little 'fifa08' comment thrown at me. I've blasted people for criticising players in an exaggerated and unneccessary manner and I've been called one of the 'happy clappies' for it... I believe that my criticism of babel was fair and square and I've explained my opinion clearly. you on the other hand just came back with that little personal dig at me. You say crouch would'nt have the chance in the first place because of his first touch? mate if crouch is good at anything it's his touch!... and this is coming from a crouch critic. you must have forgotten the goals he scored cause I remember him using his firt touch and to open up and then score goals alot of times... whether you like it or not crouch is a better finisher than babel is right now... there's no doubt about it...

He's also got a far better first touch and more composure.

by **maguskwt** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:49 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

How do you know crouch would have put those away , crouch would not even had got himself the chance with babel did with his first touch , crouch would not have won us a peanlty and crouch certainly would not have scored that goal with the keeper running towards him , giving him no time to aim . Unless you've tried it in fifa 2008 i take it

now listen... there is no need for you to have that clever little 'fifa08' comment thrown at me. I've blasted people for criticising players in an exaggerated and unneccessary manner and I've been called one of the 'happy clappies' for it... I believe that my criticism of babel was fair and square and I've explained my opinion clearly. you on the other hand just came back with that little personal dig at me. You say crouch would'nt have the chance in the first place because of his first touch? mate if crouch is good at anything it's his touch!... and this is coming from a crouch critic. you must have forgotten the goals he scored cause I remember him using his firt touch and to open up and then score goals alot of times... whether you like it or not crouch is a better finisher than babel is right now... there's no doubt about it...

He's also got a far better first touch and more composure.

yes anyone with some football knowledge knows this... only fanboys don't...

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:56 pm

Im not saying he won't improve, but it is pointless starting him on the laft when we appear to have bought a much better player (ok early days, but the signs look good) in Reira.

by **maguskwt** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:57 pm

MASTER wrote:
maguskwt wrote:gonna copy and paste my comment on the match thread regarding babel's not looking like a striker...

anyway to toffehaters reply on my comment on babel... yes I think babel is not a striker... because he had gilt-edged chances which HAD to be put away there's no doubt about it...peter crouch would've put them away... I remember him having MORE than 2 chances in the whole game... one was early in the first half... kuyt gave him a good pass... he did very very well with his first touch turning the marseille defender and all of a sudden he was one on one with the keeper and the keeper was still behind... with the whole goal to choose from, what did he do? It seemed to me like he closed his eyes and whacked the ball so hard it went to the stands... another one is where later on in the second half reira attacked down the left and sent in a dangerous cross... benayoun and marseille defender went for the the ball and it spilt out to babel... alone close range he blasted the ball again... hitting the keeper... another one was also a goalmouthscramble... he could've slipped the ball under the keeper towards the near post but again he blasted the ball... IF you consider this as a striker's finishing, then i must say I don't like strikers who just try to blast the ball without an intent, I like strikers who finish the ball into the net intelligently like Torres or Owen. Not to say the rest of his performance was bad... but he still blows hot and cold for me... and I don't like the look of his finishing skills...

Strikers who only hit with power?
Adriano, Shearer, Drogba, Rooney, Barnes (while at Watford), even Van Persie.

Besides we have played 7 games this season, played well for about 100 minutes and were still unbeaten so where is the problem?

PS: As for Lucas he is still better than any English 20 years old midfielder, so why can't he be inconistent?

the players you mention, maybe bar van persie, also hits the target more often than babel... there seem to be too many simple-minds on here... I'll explain my comment one more time... I'm talking about players who only knows how to whack the ball WITHOUT SOME FORM OF INTENT... and that is how babel just seem to be doing for majority of his goal attempts... nowhere did i say I don't like players who mostly shoots the ball with power... TWO DIFFERENT THINGS...

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