Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:05 am

Scottbot wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Once again people it strikes me that (as fans) we are just about as arrogant as the top 4 club we support. I still can't see why anyone's got a problem with O'neil? It sounds like sour grapes to me everytime I read what a tos.ser he is. He's made it very clear how much he wants for the player from the word go and he's stuck to it. Now things are dragging on he wants to know whether we are gonna pay the asking price or not + whether maybe he needs to consider the player might be staying at Villa and he gets villafied (couldn't resist!) for that as well. Where's the problem? If he was our manager placed in a similar situation with the likes of Madrid chasing Gerrard then EVERY SINGLE ONE of you would be praising the guy. Wouldn't you?

The problem people have with him is that rafa made an enquiry to villa about the availability of barry and rather than say "sorry rafa hes staying with us, we are looking to add to the squad to challenge for a european place" he ran off to the media crying like a baby and continued it through his "punditry"on bbc during the euros. Since he babbled to the press about it rafa has kept quite, while o'neill has acted like a child. He spat his dummy out with rafa rather than having discussions with barry about the interest liverpool are showing and how he is an integral part of the villa team. No instead he pursued his own interests i.e a pundit for the euros. At first I was sympathetic with him but as time has gone on he is, in all respect, a wally.

Am sorry lads but that sounds like more of the sour grapes 'how dare you defy LFC' & 'How dare you abuse your pudit status to have a SLIGHT whinge about the situation...' rubbish that i've been reading in this thread for the last 50-Odd pages.

If we want the player then pay the money. It's as simple as that for me. Chelsea would have paid it by now as would the mancs, the transfer would have gone through weeks ago. But unfortunately we have a transfer policy that's about as dynamic as Austin powers doing a three-point turn in a JCB.

I don't think I'm against the notion of 'paying the money' issue. I actually agree with it. However I do think MON is is becoming annoying because he is constantly issueing public statements asking Liverpool to bid! Its getting really childish.

Lets look at the Alonso saga with Juventus for example, we told Juve we want 16m for him, we rejected a couple of offers from them and kept of 16m valuation for our player, but did Rafa go every week in this saga telling Juve to pay up? He didn't he kept it quite. Let the media do the talking.

by **puroresu** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:15 pm

Owzat wrote:
Scottbot wrote:Once again people it strikes me that (as fans) we are just about as arrogant as the top 4 club we support. I still can't see why anyone's got a problem with O'neil? It sounds like sour grapes to me everytime I read what a tos.ser he is.

If he was our manager placed in a similar situation with the likes of Madrid chasing Gerrard then EVERY SINGLE ONE of you would be praising the guy. Wouldn't you?

I've never liked MON, made worse by anyone and everyone who claims he's one of the best managers and want(ed) him for England. He's won a two bit cup with a third rate side - so what? He's won the two horse race that is the SPL with one of the horses - so what? He reached the UEFA Cup Final which is full of teams not good enough to get into the Champions League or stay in it for those that drop out - so what? (Rangers did the same, shows how weak the competition is)

And as a pundit he's annoying. I will admit I am hacked off at the whole villa attitude in this transfer and his comments. I wouldn't want him as our manager, would be the first incoming manager I hated enough not to give a chance. I don't believe we could be in the same situation, not as things stand. But if Gerrard wanted to go to another big club, then we'd see what money was wanted. The difference there would be Gerrard is worth £18m - and the rest. GB isn't even the best player at villa, I think some/half/most (delete as applicable) of their fans rate AY better. While I laughed at the money they paid WATFORD for him, he is a good little player but never worth what they paid for him at the time. He's maybe worth near that now, I'd rather pay £18m for him - a player we need, with many years left in him - than GB

Rangers run to the UEFA cup Final and Celtic's are not the same. If I'm not mistaken O'Neil lead a celtic side which beat Celta Vigo, Blackburn & LIVERPOOL. They then lost the final in extra time v a Porto side who won the CL a year later. O'Neil also got a win over Barcelona in a 2 legged affair the year later and I remember Celtic playing Rafa's valencia side that won the UEFA cup and losing on penalties. I'm certain Rafa would say his team were lucky to win as celtic battered them at CP from what I remember Larsson missed a pen in extra time that would of put celtic through. O'neil did a fantastic job at celtic!!

I really dont see what Villa have done wrong. They are entitled to ask for a fee and its up to the buyer to match that asking price. If we do not then the player will stay and I dont think villa will mind that either as while the player may not like it he also wants to play for England so will just have to get on with it.

by **Sean** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:32 pm

You're absolutely right purorescu. O'Neill did a marvellous job at Celtic and has done well at all his clubs. He simply doesn't want to sell his captain and key player. If Real Madrid started sniffing around Torres and he started making noises about being attracted to the offer, we would all hope that Rafa would pull out al the stops to prevent it happening. O'Neill is simply doing his job n the interests of Aston Villa.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:39 pm

Owz is one of the best posters on here and I really enjoy reading his stuff. Unfortunately, he has his blind spots and "O'Squeel" and "Barny" are the new Crouch's. We all have them of course, mines how the team is picked.

by **Judge** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:41 pm

bigmick wrote:Owz is one of the best posters on here and I really enjoy reading his stuff. Unfortunately, he has his blind spots and "O'Squeel" and "Barny" are the new Crouch's. We all have them of course, mines how the team is picked.

by **Owzat** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:18 pm

puroresu wrote:Rangers run to the UEFA cup Final and Celtic's are not the same. If I'm not mistaken O'Neil lead a celtic side which beat Celta Vigo, Blackburn & LIVERPOOL. They then lost the final in extra time v a Porto side who won the CL a year later. O'Neil also got a win over Barcelona in a 2 legged affair the year later and I remember Celtic playing Rafa's valencia side that won the UEFA cup and losing on penalties. I'm certain Rafa would say his team were lucky to win as celtic battered them at CP from what I remember Larsson missed a pen in extra time that would of put celtic through. O'neil did a fantastic job at celtic!!

I'm putting achievements in perspective, I guess we were lucky to win the CL and the mancs weren't, you can take two achievements which are the same and overanalyse. They were both runners-up, the UEFA Cup IS a weak competition and Rangers had a decent result or two in the CL themselves so what's your point? My point was his achievements weren't anything like someone such as fergie - or even Moronho. While Porto are one of the biggest clubs in Portugal, he took them to the CL final. Yes the big teams fell out of the way to such an extent that Porto (if I recall correctly) were the only semi-finalist with a previous win. However the quality is much greater in the CL, that the mancs have struggled to get to finals is just so funny. Only once has Rafa failed to get to the semis or beyond and he's yet to get us into second in the league!

bigmick - what on earth you on about "the new Crouch's"??!?!??! You mean we haven't even signed him and you're admitting GB is not good enough?

If only we were paying £7m for GB then that would be ok, £18m for a player we don't need is a joke. We needed a striker, the problem with Crouch was not enough return. He has done well at small clubs where he's one of the better players, that may not be the case second time around at pompey

No blind spot with regards the leprechaun's management, he's making VERY hard work of it with villa and has yet to impress me with his managing them. Conceding EIGHT goals I believe it was, in two league games to the mancs is embarrassing for a supposed top class manager. If and when he does finally do something even I'll admit is a good achievement then he'll have cracked it. Can't see him doing it at villa the way he's going, he might get a shot at a big club but then he'd be in a no win situation and I reckon he might not relish that

by **Rockthekop** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:13 pm

At the end of the day Villa want 18M for Barry. If Rafa doesnt want to pay the asking price then forget him and walk away. MON should keep quiet and leave it at that. IMO he's not worth 18M and more importantly, we don't need him. What on earth is Rafa thinking? I just don't understand his logic at times. Buying Barry at this price is a huge mistake.

by **parchpea** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:16 pm

Whats most amusing now is the way O'Neill is rattling on about getting things cleared up over the Barry saga and yet it is he who said they did not welcome our approaches and yet now he is almost inviting us back to the table.

I like O'Neill, but he just cannot stop talking and after his comments today it seems to me as though hes now concerned he will be stuck with an unhappy player.

Villa set out their demands and we have simply not responded, so right now it may be best if he buttons it for once and just gets on with his pre season preparations including sorting his Barry issues within the Villa ranks, and not in the national press.

by **tubby** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:26 am

How long does Barry have left on his current deal?

I say :censored:

MON and

Barry. Sign Xabi up to a new contract and let that be the end of it. If Barry is nearing the end of his contract then let him come for free after.

by **Owzat** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:46 am

Rockthekop wrote:At the end of the day Villa want 18M for Barry. If Rafa doesnt want to pay the asking price then forget him and walk away. MON should keep quiet and leave it at that. IMO he's not worth 18M and more importantly, we don't need him. What on earth is Rafa thinking? I just don't understand his logic at times. Buying Barry at this price is a huge mistake.

Couldn't agree more. If MON doesn't want to sell, as I've read several times, then why put a price on him at all? Hardly sending the right signals to the player, "we want to keep you, but if someone offers £18m - bye"

MON should STFU, we're the bidders and even if we don't offer what he wants then it's up to us to make the bids not him to keep repeating the fee like a parrot. If they're that keen to sort it out, they should all sit down and NEGOTIATE, if not then repeating "we want £18m, and my pot of gold is hidden and ye ain't getting it" *tilting his leprechaun hat with a flick of defiance*

And again, we don't need a 27 year old CM for £18m when we need strikers and wide options. I rate GB about 7/10 standardly, when in form higher and when not, lower. I rate Alonso about the same, just as Alonso hasn't been great who says GB will come in and make that difference? He didn't make any difference for England, played as well as most, but where were the goals like Lampard can get for England or the decisive challenges like Gerrard makes?

Even if the fee were £12m I'm not convinced we need him. I think it could be a mistake, certainly tying up £18m in a player of that type when we already have two or three equally good or better.

And villa fans harping on about Carrick and Hargreaves' fees, he isn't either of those and if you want to continue the link then sell the fooker to MAN UTD who paid those fees for those players.

And a final way of putting it :-

Quality : £21m Torres, £17m Mascherano

Potential/V.Good players : £11.5m Babel, £10.5m Alonso, Kuyt £10m

Mid price 'Gambles' : £7m Crouch, £6.7m Pennant, £6m Morientes, £6m Luis Garcia, £6m Skrtel, £6m Bellamy, £7m Dossena, £6m Reina

As a fee it falls in the top bracket, as a player he falls in the second bracket while his fee falls into the top bracket, and the most Rafa's paid for anyone in that bracket is £11.5m for a player who is young and with potential, also a much more attacking type of player.

And before anyone gets outraged at the naming of some players as "gambles", they may have paid off and be good players, but there is never a guarantee they will as FOUR of those have proved by being here no longer. In hindsight you could say we paid too much for Kuyt, only in hindsight

by **7_Kewell** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:51 pm

all signings are gambles in one way or another. Torres was a huge gamble....because although he was a proven player in Spain there was no way of knowing for certain that he would adapt here. Lots of quality strikers (shevchenko anyone?) have come here and failed to live up to their price tag or reputation.

Everytime the manager opens the cheque book he's taking a risk.

by **Penguins** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:32 pm

Article:

Villa boss lets rip at Liverpool

An angry Martin O’Neill launched a fresh attack on Liverpool over their handling of the Gareth Barry transfer saga.

The Villa boss wants Barry’s future settled one way or another before it starts to affect his team’s preparations for the forthcoming season.

England midfielder Barry has been a target for Liverpool for several weeks, but the Merseysiders’ interest in signing him appears to have cooled recently.

The 27-year-old publicly stated his wish to join the Anfield club earlier this month, a move which, along with criticising his manager, earned him a two-week suspension and a fine.

O’Neill is unhappy with Liverpool’s handling of the situation and has hinted he will soon turn his attention to rebuilding his own squad.

Ahead of Villa’s Intertoto Cup second-leg clash against Odense tonight, O’Neill said: “This has been a long saga. We have not heard from Liverpool - I am not even sure that the agent has heard from them now.

“Never at any stage was it mentioned that other players had to be sold, if that is the case.

“”We are waiting for Liverpool, which is not actually the greatest situation in our lives, to be waiting for what Liverpool are going to do with our player that we pay.

“But I am not going to get carried away with the situation.”

He added: “What I will say is that at one stage or another we have got to start looking at what we are trying to do to prepare for the new season.

“We are looking to try and improve our squad, it’s as simple as that. And we are trying to do it with the Gareth Barry situation hovering around us.

“He is a highly talented footballer that we are paying and that we need to use at some point and, to be perfectly honest, Gareth concurs with that.”

I am just tired of that arrogant leprechaun.
He is acting like an ignorant swine who lays all the blame on us when it is him and his pathetic valuation on a player that is so very far from world class. So what if he scored vs Trinidad & Tobago for England's reserve team? A team that did not even make it to the euros.
It is the leprechaun who is forcing Barry to stay in a club he feels he has outgrown and don't want to stay in.

Meet halfways? Not in O'Niell's vocabulary. Meet at 80%?
99%?
No, a full £18 million preferably all paid in advance or no deal.
But it is all Liverpool's fault if poor Barry stays in intertoto cup land...
And then when he values our players if they are to be included in a deal they are worth peanuts. Listen to him speak make it sound as if Villa ended 4th. Wouldn't surprise me
if he wanted Gerrard and another million to make the deal work his way...

He sends us a letter demanding 18 million and sooner rather than later. More a ransom note than an actual interest to make a deal. And then he wonders why he hasn't heard an answer....

I hope Barry plays(which isn't hard since they only have 13 players or something) and sulks and underperforms. The dressing room sours, Villa ends 15th and Barry gets sold next summer for 7 million. Oh, and the leprechaun gets the sack.

by **Sean** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:01 pm

Why do you keep calling him a leprechaun ?

by **metalhead** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:05 pm

Now you know why some people are tired of him?

because every week he needs to has a dig at Liverpool and Gareth Barry, and honestly its becoming tiresome.

He should shut his mouth.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:05 pm

Barry on the bench for Villa against Odense.

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