Liverpool FC Forum

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:02 am

Next season Benitez has a great excuse for resting his players..."the euro 2008 tournament is taking it's toll and/or the olympics" I can see it now.

I personally think our squad (indivually) is as good as any in the world, the problem is football is not an indivuial sport, it's a team game and we're not a good enough team.

The rotation side of it, simply doesn't work. I don't care if we are fresh now, what good is being fresh if you still drop silly points? I watched the cricket last night and Ryan Sidebottom bowled throughout the afternoon session, 2 hours (that's half an hour more a single football match) and this was just a single session. He's running in at 80 miles an hour plus, for two solid hours, did he complain about tiredness? No because he was getting results with the cricket ball, likewise footballers don't get tired when they're doing well. We were unbeaten up until November, so the players would of been buzzing and desperate to play, so dropping them or rotating them, breaks their confidence and that's why it doesn't work.

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:09 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:I watched the cricket last night and Ryan Sidebottom bowled throughout the afternoon session, 2 hours (that's half an hour more a single football match) and this was just a single session. He's running in at 80 miles an hour plus, for two solid hours, did he complain about tiredness? No

With the greatest respect John, I think you'll find he's bowling the ball at 80mph plus, not running in at that speed. If he was he wouldn't be in the cricket team, he'd be in the Olympics

by **bigmick** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:16 am

On the subject of rotation though, today threw up as always some interesting points. Firstly, did our new found selection policy give us more rhythm and cohesion? TBPH I don't think it did today. I actually think we outmanoevred tactically a bit which is rare for us, but I don't think we ever really got going. So what does that mean, does it mean the whole rotation issue is a total load of b0ll0cks? I don't think so (obviously :;):

), I don't think you can use the argument that "if we are going to play that sh!t we might as well just rotate then" very successfully. It's unreasonable to expect to play well and to win every single game choose whether you rotate or not, and it's just a bit of a kick in the teeth that we chose this game to not really turn up. I think it's probably more the case of us being unused to the finer points of our formation particualrly against better teams than it is to a lack of recent rotation though.

I think it probably told us something about the "delayed gazelle" theory as much as anything TBH. If it was the case that half an hours rest here and there five months ago made the players "fresher", it certainly wasn't too obvious to the naked eye either before or after the sending off.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:17 am

Alright smart :censored:

, but you get the point

If he can bowl and field for a solid two hours, as a pace bowler for two hours without complaining about being tired, surely footballers who play for just 90 minutes a day don't get tired.

Sidebottom required an ice bath during the tea interval, that's expected after a hard work out like he did, but he doesn't complain he just gets on with it. Modern day footballers are lazy, moaning :censored:

. Who can't run to hard because it might mean they can't do the latest magazine photo shoot. Look at the players who give their all in modern day football, Carra, Savage, Kuyt, Gary Neville (unfortunately)...they're hardly what I'd call fashionable footballers, because they know that football comes first then the wage packet and what comes with that is second. To many players (especially at Liverpool) care more about their wage packet and luxeries of life than they do about wearing the Liverpool shirt with the pride and respect it deserves.

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:20 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Next season Benitez has a great excuse for resting his players..."the euro 2008 tournament is taking it's toll and/or the olympics" I can see it now.

I can see it too!

The problem is that I actually think that summer competitions are a problem to study in player's fitness and have a direct impact in the physical status of the players along the season. At the end of the day, it's amount of games what brings "rests" and summer competitions also change the preseason plans, which are important for the players.

Van Nistelrooy and Robben are knackered this days in Spain and in a nightmare of injuries, some of which are chronic . Perhaps they wouldn't have those chronic injuries should they have been rested more often and their former clubs

We don't know that of course, but giving a certain player a lot of games has an impact for sure.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:39 am

Sabre, I don't see how running round for a maximum of 180 minutes a week tires you out. 2 hours out of a whole week you do what you're paid to. I'd say a maximum of 18 hours training. So 20 hours (not even a whole day) out of every week maximum tires these super fit human beings, especially when they're being paid between 30 and 120 grand a wekk. They have the best health care that money can buy. What tires them out, is constantly popping up on radio stations, telly shows and magazine interviews/photo shoots. They are footballers, so they should concentrate on football. I'll use cricket again as I follow England's cricket almost as closely as I follow England's football. Kevin Pietersen, argueablly the best cricketer England have at their disposal right now, said during a magazine interview "I'm feeling tired right now and could do with a break from international cricket" I can understand cricketers feeling tired because they travel the globe, without many rests, hardly time spent with their families and they play a lot more often than football, but to say "I'm tired" during an interview for a magazine is the wrong way to go about things.

As for Mick on your beliefs about today. I think the reason we didn't get going is because Gerrard was not played in the same role. He was neither behind Torres nor in the middle of the park. He was stuck in between the two. Also, I saw Brown and Evra in our penalty area, but can't remember Arbeloa or Aurellio in their half never mind box. Scholes and Rooney ran us raggered whereas our counterparts (Gerrard,Torres) didn't put two passes together. Ferdinand and Vidic stopped Torres playing whereas Carra and Skrtel looked like schoolboys because of Rooney. I think we were just outclassed in every department today. It was a huge disappointment and our lack of desire to try and win the game sickened me.

by **Simari** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:18 am

We started very well today (first 10 minutes) and looked threatening going forward with the same formation.

Then 2 long balls to Rooney behind our defense - put us back in a shell.

It is a matter of being comfortable with the formation against the top teams, as was pointed out above - that *may* be the issue. Prior to Masch's red card, for about 15 minutes, Gerrard was playing much deeper. That effectively cut out our game moving forward.

I would love to see Rafa stick to this formation, and bring in 1-2 quality players - Definitely 1 to play ahead of Kuyt (he could work well as a sub in that role, when we need to hold on to a lead). His lack of pace is shocking and he was well covered by Mancs to the extent that they isolated Babel as the main threat from the wings and effectively closed him down.

I feel much better about the team now, than I did late last year. However, as a lot of folks have rightly pointed out - If either Gerrard or Torres has a bad game, we are quite clueless. 1 more to add to their *inner circle* and hopefully Babel can join them next year - and we will look better.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:51 am

Rotation can't be blamed for the loss to United. It was the same side in the same formation. There was no passion, pride or belief in anybody in the Liverpool side or staff. It's like they are expecting defeat and just wait for it to happen.

There'll be changes against Everton (unforced ones to) I assume. I don't think it'll be major players being "rotated" but the likes of Kuyt, Arebloa. I think they'll both be dropped with Pennant and Hyypia coming in for them.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:51 am

I also don't subscribe to this theory that Rafa almost always pick his strongest available team for Europe, but has often rested players in the domestic competitions.

He rests players in Europe also - certainly in the group games. Remember the Marseille home game, and various group games over the last few seasons where ITV et al have gone off one about us not playing Gerrard? We were in trouble this season so he had to play the strongest 11 if we wanted to qualify. In the knock out games you play your strongest available team, in the same way as you do so against the best PL teams.

I don't think the fact that we are strong in Europe represents evidence that he cares more about it, just that for whatever reason, we are better in that competition.

by **laza** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:15 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Rotation can't be blamed for the loss to United. It was the same side in the same formation. There was no passion, pride or belief in anybody in the Liverpool side or staff. It's like they are expecting defeat and just wait for it to happen.

There'll be changes against Everton (unforced ones to) I assume. I don't think it'll be major players being "rotated" but the likes of Kuyt, Arebloa. I think they'll both be dropped with Pennant and Hyypia coming in for them.

Of course rotation can be blamed
We had a unchanged side, they made 8 changes

Sack Rafa, he doesnt rotate enough

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:35 am

I think it probably told us something about the "delayed gazelle" theory as much as anything TBH. If it was the case that half an hours rest here and there five months ago made the players "fresher", it certainly wasn't too obvious to the naked eye either before or after the sending off.

That theory is boll0cks :laugh:

.. This gazelle c.rap. An hour here or there five months prior to the present fixtures, yeah alright do me a favour.

The only way that little phrase will work, is if we rested some of our players for two or three months in the early part of the season. But not 90 mins here 60 mins there :laugh:

Thats f.ucking nonsense and I'm actually amazed people on here who think they no what there talking about when it comes to football, sincerely believe that the 60 mins that Gerrard was rested for five months ago will have an amazing effect on his physical shape right now.

by **RedBlood** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:05 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Sabre, I don't see how running round for a maximum of 180 minutes a week tires you out. 2 hours out of a whole week you do what you're paid to. I'd say a maximum of 18 hours training. So 20 hours (not even a whole day) out of every week maximum tires these super fit human beings, especially when they're being paid between 30 and 120 grand a wekk. They have the best health care that money can buy. What tires them out, is constantly popping up on radio stations, telly shows and magazine interviews/photo shoots. They are footballers, so they should concentrate on football. I'll use cricket again as I follow England's cricket almost as closely as I follow England's football. Kevin Pietersen, argueablly the best cricketer England have at their disposal right now, said during a magazine interview "I'm feeling tired right now and could do with a break from international cricket" I can understand cricketers feeling tired because they travel the globe, without many rests, hardly time spent with their families and they play a lot more often than football, but to say "I'm tired" during an interview for a magazine is the wrong way to go about things.

As for Mick on your beliefs about today. I think the reason we didn't get going is because Gerrard was not played in the same role. He was neither behind Torres nor in the middle of the park. He was stuck in between the two. Also, I saw Brown and Evra in our penalty area, but can't remember Arbeloa or Aurellio in their half never mind box. Scholes and Rooney ran us raggered whereas our counterparts (Gerrard,Torres) didn't put two passes together. Ferdinand and Vidic stopped Torres playing whereas Carra and Skrtel looked like schoolboys because of Rooney. I think we were just outclassed in every department today. It was a huge disappointment and our lack of desire to try and win the game sickened me.

i agree mate

players being tired is bullsh.it

2 games a week and a few mornings training?? boo hoo

when i was a kid i played from morning to night 7days a week when i was able to and i was never tired

tirdness?? try working 12 hour shifts, overtime then looking after kids you overpaid pus.sys :veryangry

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:10 pm

RedBlood wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Sabre, I don't see how running round for a maximum of 180 minutes a week tires you out. 2 hours out of a whole week you do what you're paid to. I'd say a maximum of 18 hours training. So 20 hours (not even a whole day) out of every week maximum tires these super fit human beings, especially when they're being paid between 30 and 120 grand a wekk. They have the best health care that money can buy. What tires them out, is constantly popping up on radio stations, telly shows and magazine interviews/photo shoots. They are footballers, so they should concentrate on football. I'll use cricket again as I follow England's cricket almost as closely as I follow England's football. Kevin Pietersen, argueablly the best cricketer England have at their disposal right now, said during a magazine interview "I'm feeling tired right now and could do with a break from international cricket" I can understand cricketers feeling tired because they travel the globe, without many rests, hardly time spent with their families and they play a lot more often than football, but to say "I'm tired" during an interview for a magazine is the wrong way to go about things.

As for Mick on your beliefs about today. I think the reason we didn't get going is because Gerrard was not played in the same role. He was neither behind Torres nor in the middle of the park. He was stuck in between the two. Also, I saw Brown and Evra in our penalty area, but can't remember Arbeloa or Aurellio in their half never mind box. Scholes and Rooney ran us raggered whereas our counterparts (Gerrard,Torres) didn't put two passes together. Ferdinand and Vidic stopped Torres playing whereas Carra and Skrtel looked like schoolboys because of Rooney. I think we were just outclassed in every department today. It was a huge disappointment and our lack of desire to try and win the game sickened me.

i agree mate

players being tired is bullsh.it

2 games a week and a few mornings training?? boo hoo

when i was a kid i played from morning to night 7days a week when i was able to and i was never tired

tirdness?? try working 12 hour shifts, overtime then looking after kids you overpaid pus.sys

exactly. there not tired, so they don't need rests. not three weeks into the season or thirty weeks into the season. these players aren't tired.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:17 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Rotation can't be blamed for the loss to United. It was the same side in the same formation. There was no passion, pride or belief in anybody in the Liverpool side or staff. It's like they are expecting defeat and just wait for it to happen.

There'll be changes against Everton (unforced ones to) I assume. I don't think it'll be major players being "rotated" but the likes of Kuyt, Arebloa. I think they'll both be dropped with Pennant and Hyypia coming in for them.

well honestly, there were alot of games where like the man u game, other problems other than rotation played a big part, that's just what us non-anti-rotation ppl were trying to say...

by **Judge** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:31 pm

stmichael wrote:I also don't subscribe to this theory that Rafa almost always pick his strongest available team for Europe, but has often rested players in the domestic competitions.

He rests players in Europe also - certainly in the group games. Remember the Marseille home game, and various group games over the last few seasons where ITV et al have gone off one about us not playing Gerrard? We were in trouble this season so he had to play the strongest 11 if we wanted to qualify. In the knock out games you play your strongest available team, in the same way as you do so against the best PL teams.

I don't think the fact that we are strong in Europe represents evidence that he cares more about it, just that for whatever reason, we are better in that competition.

at 100 grand a week, why should any player be rested in the way they have.

players today - eat better, are fitter and have a quality lifestyle.

you should always play the strongest 11, with the odd change depending on injury.

in the old days, players played week in week out, and injury was left evident.

i say play em until injury happens. no one can predict when that will happen. you take your chance like anyone else in football.

i understand the thinking behind it, but in this day an age, they should at all available times.

that breeds consistency and subsequently many victories

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