Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:03 am

I'd like to read some views about how you see the captain.

There's a healthy discussion in the Alonso thread about rotation and Mascherano/Alonso, but I'd like to discuss about this in a separate thread, and I'd be grateful if you answered this two topics about Gerrard (or add whatever you like about Gerrard's impact in the team):

Topic a) Bar some minutes in the game Alonso was injured, Gerrard hasn't played in the right. Would you like to see him in the right again if a specific game asks for it and try a Mascherano-Alonso couple in the centre? Or do you think instead that Gerrard must play in the middle no matter what and fortunately Rafa has corrected that mistake so far this season?

I'm in the camp of posters who think Steven Gerrard is the best player of the squad. He really is. And I say now that we haven't seen his best, due to the injury and it's recovery process. He just needed games. However, I think that every player has things to improve. It's a tough topic, because you can say so many good things about his game that mentioning those seem nitpicking, but I'd like to hear what each of you think.

Topic b)
-------

Is there an aspect of Stevie's game that you would like he improved (a little)?

I for one, have one, the fact that sometimes he shouldn't hurry to find a difficult one-two, or a killer pass. His team mates go up for a reason, and if you try something too difficult too soon, that will mean a lost ball, and a counter, with many players out of position, and Mascherano having to do a great run and sliding tackle to abort the danger.

Please share your views

by **Smeg** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:30 am

Sabre wrote:I'd like to read some views about how you see the captain.

There's a healthy discussion in the Alonso thread about rotation and Mascherano/Alonso, but I'd like to discuss about this in a separate thread, and I'd be grateful if you answered this two topics about Gerrard (or add whatever you like about Gerrard's impact in the team):

Topic a) Bar some minutes in the game Alonso was injured, Gerrard hasn't played in the right. Would you like to see him in the right again if a specific game asks for it and try a Mascherano-Alonso couple in the centre? Or do you think instead that Gerrard must play in the middle no matter what and fortunately Rafa has corrected that mistake so far this season?

I'm in the camp of posters who think Steven Gerrard is the best player of the squad. He really is. And I say now that we haven't seen his best, due to the injury and it's recovery process. He just needed games. However, I think that every player has things to improve. It's a tough topic, because you can say so many good things about his game that mentioning those seem nitpicking, but I'd like to hear what each of you think.

Topic b)
-------

Is there an aspect of Stevie's game that you would like he improved (a little)?

I for one, have one, the fact that sometimes he shouldn't hurry to find a difficult one-two, or a killer pass. His team mates go up for a reason, and if you try something too difficult too soon, that will mean a lost ball, and a counter, with many players out of position, and Mascherano having to do a great run and sliding tackle to abort the danger.

Please share your views

A.) Gerrard can do a great job on the right and if the team required that option then of course its there. However, he's for me without a shadow of a doubt in the top 5 players in the world and if and when possible should be playing central midfield where I feel he's finally matured into the player he was always going to be.

The only thing he really needs to improve is his consistency to play at 100% in 6 out of 10 games. Roy Keane literally dragged United through games when they weren't playing well by making everyone else play with sheer desire and doing everything for the team. Gerrard can do this, he just doesn't do it enough.

In terms of his consistency, I hear muppets saying he was average last year, the fact is he wasn't. He was immense, he gets overlooked when playing in centre midfield as he will score less goals and do more alround work. Against Chelsea last season in the CL and this season he was simply immense and looked in tremendous form.

Tackling, passing and getting other players into great positions. He's become more of a team player as he's got older which has helped the tactical side of his game immensely, the little movements he makes are immense and something idiots and tv watchers will never understand.

He's always one of Liverpool's best three players in a game and its very rare he gives less than a 7/10 performance. It says alot when there is two recently against Porto and Birmingham and everyones in shock at the way he's been playing.

B.) How do you improve the best alround footballer in the world? The only real thing is to stop the :censored:

taking corners, because he can't and to tell him he's not Zidane, he's Steven Gerrard, he's an alround midfielder not an "attacking midfielder". Apart from that...

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:07 am

As long as he's on the team sheet I am happy. Right wing or Central Midfield he will do a great job. I think he does play a little better when played in CM, probably because he can get more involved and its the position he's grown up playing. I think Gerrard NEEDS to be involved, he doesn't have the discipline of say a Michael Owen, someone that can touch the ball maybe only 3 or 4 times in a game, but who walks off feeling he's done his job if a couple of those touches were goals.

I also feel he does much better when played in one position for most of the time whether it be CM or Right Winger. Chopping and changing as he did last season must be difficult, and he has admitted it had a negative effect on his game.

The problem with Gerrard on the right is getting enough ball to him to keep him happy. All wingers need a little of the Owen type discipline to stay wide when all their instincts want them to go hunting the ball and make a contribution. Gerrard scored 20 goals when played mainly on the right, but very few were typical wingers goals, most came when he had drifted inside searching for the ball. Great against the poorer teams, but maybe not so great against the top teams who can maybe exploit it. Of all his goals that season only one was against a top side and that one was actually one of his few "winger type " goals.

I don't think we need Gerrard on the right anymore as we have good players who can fill that role now. I would prefer him in the middle leaving Alonso, Mascherano and Sissoko fighting for the other spot. If there was a particular tactical reason or for injuries etc I would be quite happy to see him back on the right.

If Gerrard isn't getting enough of the ball, he will go looking for it, he wants to be the one making things happen, and to be fair most of the time he does. I don't think he will ever be the type of player who is happy passing the ball 5 yards when there is a 40 yard pass on that could lead to a goal. I would like to see him add a bit more patience to his game, sometimes we seem to be too eager to create openings and dont keep possession as well as I would wish, and I think maybe Gerrard is guiltier than most. Which I think is pretty much what you said Sabre.

by **ConnO'var** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:19 am

Smeg wrote:
Sabre wrote:I'd like to read some views about how you see the captain.

There's a healthy discussion in the Alonso thread about rotation and Mascherano/Alonso, but I'd like to discuss about this in a separate thread, and I'd be grateful if you answered this two topics about Gerrard (or add whatever you like about Gerrard's impact in the team):

Topic a) Bar some minutes in the game Alonso was injured, Gerrard hasn't played in the right. Would you like to see him in the right again if a specific game asks for it and try a Mascherano-Alonso couple in the centre? Or do you think instead that Gerrard must play in the middle no matter what and fortunately Rafa has corrected that mistake so far this season?

I'm in the camp of posters who think Steven Gerrard is the best player of the squad. He really is. And I say now that we haven't seen his best, due to the injury and it's recovery process. He just needed games. However, I think that every player has things to improve. It's a tough topic, because you can say so many good things about his game that mentioning those seem nitpicking, but I'd like to hear what each of you think.

Topic b)
-------

Is there an aspect of Stevie's game that you would like he improved (a little)?

I for one, have one, the fact that sometimes he shouldn't hurry to find a difficult one-two, or a killer pass. His team mates go up for a reason, and if you try something too difficult too soon, that will mean a lost ball, and a counter, with many players out of position, and Mascherano having to do a great run and sliding tackle to abort the danger.

Please share your views

A.) Gerrard can do a great job on the right and if the team required that option then of course its there. However, he's for me without a shadow of a doubt in the top 5 players in the world and if and when possible should be playing central midfield where I feel he's finally matured into the player he was always going to be.

The only thing he really needs to improve is his consistency to play at 100% in 6 out of 10 games. Roy Keane literally dragged United through games when they weren't playing well by making everyone else play with sheer desire and doing everything for the team. Gerrard can do this, he just doesn't do it enough.

In terms of his consistency, I hear muppets saying he was average last year, the fact is he wasn't. He was immense, he gets overlooked when playing in centre midfield as he will score less goals and do more alround work. Against Chelsea last season in the CL and this season he was simply immense and looked in tremendous form.

Tackling, passing and getting other players into great positions. He's become more of a team player as he's got older which has helped the tactical side of his game immensely, the little movements he makes are immense and something idiots and tv watchers will never understand.

He's always one of Liverpool's best three players in a game and its very rare he gives less than a 7/10 performance. It says alot when there is two recently against Porto and Birmingham and everyones in shock at the way he's been playing.

B.) How do you improve the best alround footballer in the world? The only real thing is to stop the taking corners, because he can't and to tell him he's not Zidane, he's Steven Gerrard, he's an alround midfielder not an "attacking midfielder". Apart from that...

Good post, Smeg.

I tend to agree with much of what you said, but he does need to improve in some aspects of his game.

Most notably with his patience when involved in slow build up play. I feel that he's @ his most dangerous when we are playing a high tempo game. When we do this, his natural dynamism shines through, football becomes instinctive again and the familiar box-box, ball winning, hard driving midifelder that we all know emerges. At his best when this is the case... especially when we are playing weaker teams.

About the only times, I've seen him play brilliantly in slow build-up games is against the better teams. When we take a similar approach against normal or weaker teams.... the slow tempo doesn't really suit him as he ends up all impatient and often attempts the so called "hollywood" balls.

Having said that, I think he's still very, very good when the game is slow and more often than not, as you said, he's in the top 3 performers every game that he plays. And it DOES say a lot about our expectations of him when we notice 2 below par performances in a row form the captain. We have gotten so used to him being our dominant force that we instantly notice it when his play is not quite up to scratch.

He is still our best player IMO and by a fair distance still BUT he's far from perfect. Things that could help....

1. Patience
2. STOP taking those sh!te corners

by **Smeg** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:01 am

To be quite honest I never want him to take another corner aslong as he lives. The amount of times he hits the first man is a joke.

We should actually put someone like Carragher on their first man to see if he can get a flick on...

by **112-1077774096** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:12 am

our corners have been bad for as long as i can remember, and thats a long time. in fact we used to joke when paisley was manager that when we get a corner we should just give them a free kick to save time.

the percentage that we make any use of must be very low (from both sides of the pitch), corners to us are just a waste of time.

so gerrard, yeah. the guy has amazing talent, there is no doubt about that and now he is back in the middle he can do his job properly, he has looked a little out of sorts since his injury, but even an out of sorts gerrard is better than the majority of other midfielders in the country so we can't grumble too much.

he does however have to change his game regularly, one week he has pace in front of him so that gives him an outlet, and the next week he has no pace in front of him taking away that outlet and leaving him with kuyts inability in everything, or crouch's lack of first team action or voronins lack of pace.

he is still the driving force in the team, and despite his soundbites i get the impression recently that alls not that well in his head and i think the omission of torres has been the cause of this, he finally gets a forward with class and then loses him for important games when he knows how much damage they could be doing together

by **Sabre** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:59 pm

Thank you all for your insight.

To be perfectly honest, I cannot say much against Gerrard in the last game. I watched the first half again yesterday and it wasn't his fault that we were not able to shake the pressing Marseille did.

Funnily enough, the team played like Valencia used to play in away games. Apparently sat deep, but trying to get out in the counter attack fast. This is the bit that failed, the couple of times we didn't fail, we did advance our lines, and we did press up in the pitch, but most of the time we were inoperant to keep possession, and Sissoko, and the lack of correct offerings (movement to become available for a pass) from Leto and Benayoun were the culprit, not Gerrard . (That said, Sissoko had played well so far this season)

There was a significant improvent in terms of reaction to actions and awareness, and, as Smeg says, he was yet again one of the best 3 man. Gerrard just needed matches, he had to work a lot, sometimes Sissoko decided to do things he doesn't know and Gerrard helped a lot.

I agree Stu's point about him being an all round midfielder, Gerrard did many of the "unsung" Alonso tasks at some points of the game. My question is, if there's men that can do the "ugly" job behind him, shouldn't it be best Gerrard focuses in what he knows best? IMHO, there are few players that can be as harmful to the opposition as he can be in the 3/4 part of the pitch. And in order he does his stuff safely, IMHO the best thing is to have somebody at his back all the time, or most of the time.

by **taff** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:30 pm

I would argue that Gerrard is sometimes not as tactically aware as an Alonso but in the Premier League he is like gold dust due to his attitude and style.

Sabre, how would you honestly think Gerrard would do in Spain with a slower more tactical game

by **Sabre** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:55 pm

taff wrote:I would argue that Gerrard is sometimes not as tactically aware as an Alonso but in the Premier League he is like gold dust due to his attitude and style.

Sabre, how would you honestly think Gerrard would do in Spain with a slower more tactical game

Football is football. ANd Gerrard is an excellent footballer, he'd be as superb as Owen was, but in the midfield. (Owen did excell in Spain when you look at his goals and minutes, it was just that he wasn't used due to the Raul-esque clique)

The game in Spain is not actually slower, the tempo is, because more fouls are given (and that implies the opposition putting again his lines in order, and more importance in set pieces situations) but basically, his bright sides which are many would be as useful down here as are up there.

A man that has a great long shot, has strenght, is good at set pieces outside the box, tracks back, works, knows finishing when he enters the box and passes well will be good in football. No matter if you're in Zimbabwe, Spain, England or China.

by **bunglemark2** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:35 pm

I recall reading an article recently about Ruud Gullit when he was manager at Newcastle. He and Shearer didn't see eye to eye, so much so that Gullit wanted to drop Shearer. To be fair to the - or ANY - manager, that's his prerogative. No amount of manager-bashing by the fans, media or the club itself should be allowed to interfere......at least that's my opinion.
Now, to my point....
Were *I* manager of LFC, I would drop or rest Gerrard for a few games. Simply 'willing' him to make a difference and to win a game just by being on the pitch, when he's clearly underperforming or missing *something* to his game, is nonsense. It makes a mockery of a manager's obligation to the fans to put his best foot forward and put his best team on the pitch, individually and collectively.
To me, it's a no-brainer: Rafa should have given McClaren the two fingers, and insisted Gerrard stay put until his injury is over with, or until Gerrard has his psyche in order. Gerrard should have (had) no say in the matter....

by **The Ace1983** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:30 pm

I'm not so sure about the first question. Pennant and Yossi are both playing well and they bring a lot to the games in their own right, but sometimes, for security, having a more defensive midfield would be a better option and having Gerrard on the right with say Momo and Alonso in the middle could be a better option because they can switch to three in the middle and swamp that area. But it raises issues and eyebrows. I couldn't really give a definate "yes" or "no" on this one.

As for the second question in this thread, Steven Gerrard is one of the most perfectly made midfielders the world has ever seen. But, he does lack one very important aspect imho. Belief. Stevie is sure of himself, yet he retains a sense of humility and a charming humbleness. You could never call him cocky, even when he's trying to be, he just can't cut it at being a c0ck. And that's all great. But sometimes, on the field at least, I'd like to see him be a bit cockier. I firmly believe that if Gerrard wants to win a game, he can do it by himself. He's done it before, but often he doesn't seem to believe. He's got the world of Liverpool FC on his shoulders, and sometimes he needs to drop it and go for himself. He looks tired out, knackered even because of the pressure.
If Steven Gerrard believed in himself a little more, he would be rated as the best player on the planet by everyone. I know that we can't expect him to carry the team, and he shouldn't have to with a squad like ours, but there are times when we're at 0-0 or 1-0 down near the end of the game when I just wish he'd flick a little switch in his head and come to life. Like he did against Olympiakos, or Milan in '05, and to a lesser extent against Villa this year where his burst towards goal drew the foul that won the kick that he scored with one of the shots of the season. That's the Steven Gerrard who believes. A little more of that, and he'd be better than... well, Steven Gerrard.

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:06 pm

The lad doesn't look fully fit to me. I mean I know the lad's got such hight standards anyway but he just hasn't been himself at all recently. Now we have another two week break whereby he'll run himself into the ground for england and then have to come back and throw himself into the battle of a merseyside derby on the saturday lunchtime.

i mean yesterday at one point he pulled out of a 50/50 tackle with the mighty jermaine jenas ffs. That would never happen with a fit Steven Gerrard.

I'm not having a go at the lad. I mean the team as a whole are hardly setting the world alight at the moment, but at a time like this you need Stevie G to take games by the scruff of the neck but he's been realtively quiet in recent weeks.

Thoughts?

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:13 pm

Well, he did admit in the paper a week or so back that the toe was really bothering him in the Porto and Brum matches. Perhaps it's still bothering him?

by **Smeg** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:23 pm

As good as he is he was awful yesterday. He still done one or two good things though and I supose the first goal was partially down to his "stinging" shot. He also hit the post don't forget.

He hasn't looked himself, but he'll get that back over the coming games. To be fair though, probably no-one looked themselves yesterday except Finnan who was average at best.

Berbatov won everything in the air, Dawson pretty much kept our strikers quiet, Jenas and Zakora bossed the midfield and Keane ran Carragher ragged.

While Gerrard, Mascherano, Hyypia, Carragher, Riise and even Reina wouldn't have looked out of place on a sunday league pitch. Torres had no service, there was really only Pennant and Finnan being his usual self.

Can I just say though, the best peice of skill in the game was right infront of us, Berbatov killed the ball out of the air like it was nothing. It was one of those moments where you just have to applaud the opposition.

The major positive, is while played rubbish, Spurs were at their best and couldn't beat us.

by **tubby** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:26 pm

Stevie being the lad he is, is never going to come out and say "im tired and cant perform at 100%". Not when he has that ginger c.unt Mc Laren waiting by his feet all the time and not when hes our skipper.

Stevie definatley looked tired yesterday and you could clearly see Rafa getting angry with something he was/wasnt doing during one point of the game. This is quite worrying to see him tired at such an early stage of the season. The upcoming England wont help either.

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