Liverpool FC Forum

by **redtrader74** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:40 pm

Maybe he needs a hug and a cuddle from Rafa, and told how great he is, it can't be doing his fragile character much good seeing Torres' shirts all over the place.

by **Smeg** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:19 pm

Sabre wrote:
Smeg wrote:
stmichael wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:maybe he should take a break from being the captain.

If Rafa were to take the captaincy off him, I could see him sulking and in turn, having an adverse affect on the team. (Although I could be wrong, given that the lad offered to relinquish the captaincy in the wake of the first "Chelsea-gate" affair.)

Plus, I think Gerrard with the armband is a lot better to the side than Gerrard without it. As said, Carra doesn't need an armband to show off his leadership credentials but Gerrard has always struck me as a person with fragile self-esteem so I don't think the way to get out of this slump is to change the captain.

This will sound controversial, but I don't think we're a side brimming with leaders so for me, it makes more sense to keep Gerrard as captain, although I'm not 100% comfortable with it.

Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Carragher and even Hyypia are leaders... as is Kuyt.

So I can't see where you're coming from really.

Alonso is a great player, but he's not a leader, and he never will be.

Not all great players are leaders. ABout Alonso a coach of him when he was a lad told me he sometimes need a "push" in the back so that he reacts. Sometimes too much of a good lad.

The only time I spoke to Alonso in the last two years, was after a Villa game away in which he took a plane to San Sebastian afte he scored and everything.

His words said Carra and Gerrard were the leaders, but more importantly his face aswell, "they're the bóllocks" would be a decent tranlation for his words (I think it's used in a good way that way)

The two captains and the best leaders of this team are Carra and Steve, and IMHO, there's not debate about that.

Xabi Alonso is a leader.

He takes games by the scruff of the neck, he gives his all and always wants the ball and never hides. He's also an excellent player. Alonso leads by example, he also instructs other players what to do.

A couple of years ago in the Derby after Gerrard was sent off he stamped his authority on the game and took it by the scruff of the neck. He shows urgency and resposibility aswell.

by **Smeg** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:22 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Smeg wrote:
stmichael wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:maybe he should take a break from being the captain.

If Rafa were to take the captaincy off him, I could see him sulking and in turn, having an adverse affect on the team. (Although I could be wrong, given that the lad offered to relinquish the captaincy in the wake of the first "Chelsea-gate" affair.)

Plus, I think Gerrard with the armband is a lot better to the side than Gerrard without it. As said, Carra doesn't need an armband to show off his leadership credentials but Gerrard has always struck me as a person with fragile self-esteem so I don't think the way to get out of this slump is to change the captain.

This will sound controversial, but I don't think we're a side brimming with leaders so for me, it makes more sense to keep Gerrard as captain, although I'm not 100% comfortable with it.

Alonso, Gerrard, Torres, Carragher and even Hyypia are leaders... as is Kuyt.

So I can't see where you're coming from really.

And Dean Ashton ?

What about him?

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:22 pm

What’s the point of Gerrard bashing, everyone is playing rubbish, even Carragher has been cr@p in the past 2 games.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:09 am

if he sulks should the captaincy be taken off him then i reckon he isnt a good leader to begin with.

is it his fragile self esteem or his ego? i understand its embarrassing to be removed as captain. but maybe what can be done is to play mash and leiva instead. i like what ive seen of the Brazilian so far.

by **Ciggy** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:46 am

Cool Hand Luke wrote:What’s the point of Gerrard bashing, everyone is playing rubbish, even Carragher has been cr@p in the past 2 games.

And Pennant since he didnt get his England call up, notice he was playing out of his skin in the first few games for the first 20 minutes on sunday I dont think he touched the ball once.

by **maguskwt** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:01 am

stevie g is a great player, one of the greatest midfielders in the world right now and he's my favourite player as well. But I think he needs to be given a rest... all the numerous games he played so far seems to be having a toll on him right now. not to mention is toe injury.

I think the team playing below par has to do with gerrard being off form... made worse by alonso's absence. ppl blame rafa's rotation for our bad performances but it seems to me the real cause is the team can't pass for nuts right now. This is the most basic part of the game... if you can't string 3-4 passes together, you will lose the ball every 2 minutes and not only will you fail to put pressure on your opponents, your defenders will be constantly under pressure. The battle is half lost there or even 3/4. And this can't be blamed on rotation as well as we're talking about even simple passes going astray. These are professional footballers and whether they're playing or not they should be able to keep the ball and pass simple passes. And that's where mascherano and gerrard is guilty right now. the are the central distribution unit and they're not doing their job right now. mascherano was never a fabulous passer and his role is not that of a playmaker , but gerrard can do alot better by his standards. In the spurs game he was guilty of not finding his team mates often enough and hence losing the ball to the opposition. you can see that when benyaoun came on the team was able to pressure the opposition alot better as he can keep the ball and at the same time find his team mates with his passes.

I definitely think that gerrard needs a rest. remember under houlier, when gerrard wasn't playing well... he benched him and when he came back he improved alot? Yeah rafa... let him rest and play benyaoun and mascherano in the middle for a game or two. I think benyaoun can be quite a good playmaker with mascherano covering him at the back.

disclaimer: this is not gerrard-bashing... he's my fav player and I couldn't possibly bash him... but right now he needs to be given a rest...and rafa should tell mclaren to :censored:

off for this international break... tell him gerrard is injured or somethin...oh btw don't think his captaincy should be stripped... there's no need for it at all... just bench him for a couple of games...

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:12 am

Unfortunately with such important games coming up (everton and Arsenal) I can't see Rafa resting Gerrard even with the return of Alonso. Maybe a move out to the right for a few games may be enough? I don't honestly believe he is physically tired, but more likely mentally tired after a very stressful couple of weeks.

Obviously playing on with his injury has had a bad effect on him, and no doubt has affected his confidence too. Hopefully he wont play 2 full games for England and will return with added confidence.

by **stmichael** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:20 pm

s@int wrote:Unfortunately with such important games coming up (everton and Arsenal) I can't see Rafa resting Gerrard even with the return of Alonso. Maybe a move out to the right for a few games may be enough?

Wouldn't be surprised to see that at all, especially considering arteta plays on the left of a four for everton in midfield.

I also worry about Pennant's temperament in such a heated game. He's already been sent off at Porto and was very lucky not to get sent off at Villa on the first day.

It worries though the thought of throwing Alonso back into a Derby if he's not 100% fit. It shouldn't be done. We did it last season with Carragher and look what happened.

by **Smeg** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:42 pm

stmichael wrote:
s@int wrote:Unfortunately with such important games coming up (everton and Arsenal) I can't see Rafa resting Gerrard even with the return of Alonso. Maybe a move out to the right for a few games may be enough?

Wouldn't be surprised to see that at all, especially considering arteta plays on the left of a four for everton in midfield.

I also worry about Pennant's temperament in such a heated game. He's already been sent off at Porto and was very lucky not to get sent off at Villa on the first day.

It worries though the thought of throwing Alonso back into a Derby if he's not 100% fit. It shouldn't be done. We did it last season with Carragher and look what happened.

We also threw him straight back in against Juventus away in Rafa's first season after being out for 4 months and he dragged the team through with an immense alround midfield performance.

by **Sabre** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:51 pm

Smeg wrote:
stmichael wrote:
s@int wrote:Unfortunately with such important games coming up (everton and Arsenal) I can't see Rafa resting Gerrard even with the return of Alonso. Maybe a move out to the right for a few games may be enough?

Wouldn't be surprised to see that at all, especially considering arteta plays on the left of a four for everton in midfield.

I also worry about Pennant's temperament in such a heated game. He's already been sent off at Porto and was very lucky not to get sent off at Villa on the first day.

It worries though the thought of throwing Alonso back into a Derby if he's not 100% fit. It shouldn't be done. We did it last season with Carragher and look what happened.

We also threw him straight back in against Juventus away in Rafa's first season after being out for 4 months and he dragged the team through with an immense alround midfield performance.

Despite I'm not in the Stu's positions of antiAggerism and antiBabelism, I'm in his side when he defends that Gerrard is excellent as an alround midfielder.

I'll say more, this games in which he has played alongside Mascherano don't mean anything to me, I still think they're also perfectly compatible (although I keep disagreeing Alonso was less compatible).

When he was played in the right, I think it was a great option too, I didn't see that as "incompatibilty with Alonso" nor "Rafa doesn't see him in the middle", I thought back then and I think now that Gerrard was able to play there and do a great job as a RM (not RW). The team needed him there to fill a gap, and he excelled.

by **Alonso14** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:45 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:What’s the point of Gerrard bashing, everyone is playing rubbish, even Carragher has been cr@p in the past 2 games.

And Pennant since he didnt get his England call up, notice he was playing out of his skin in the first few games for the first 20 minutes on sunday I dont think he touched the ball once.

I hear his birds just dumped him aswell

by **Smeg** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:57 pm

Sabre wrote:
Smeg wrote:
stmichael wrote:
s@int wrote:Unfortunately with such important games coming up (everton and Arsenal) I can't see Rafa resting Gerrard even with the return of Alonso. Maybe a move out to the right for a few games may be enough?

Wouldn't be surprised to see that at all, especially considering arteta plays on the left of a four for everton in midfield.

I also worry about Pennant's temperament in such a heated game. He's already been sent off at Porto and was very lucky not to get sent off at Villa on the first day.

It worries though the thought of throwing Alonso back into a Derby if he's not 100% fit. It shouldn't be done. We did it last season with Carragher and look what happened.

We also threw him straight back in against Juventus away in Rafa's first season after being out for 4 months and he dragged the team through with an immense alround midfield performance.

Despite I'm not in the Stu's positions of antiAggerism and antiBabelism, I'm in his side when he defends that Gerrard is excellent as an alround midfielder.

I'll say more, this games in which he has played alongside Mascherano don't mean anything to me, I still think they're also perfectly compatible (although I keep disagreeing Alonso was less compatible).

When he was played in the right, I think it was a great option too, I didn't see that as "incompatibilty with Alonso" nor "Rafa doesn't see him in the middle", I thought back then and I think now that Gerrard was able to play there and do a great job as a RM (not RW). The team needed him there to fill a gap, and he excelled.

I'm not anti Agger what so ever.

Agger is a very good player, but he's not a top class player.

Its quite laughable how people seem to think I think Agger's a poor player because I don't kiss his :censored:

and can see his faults.

Again I'll state... AGGER IS A VERY TALENTED PLAYER but he's not a top class player.

Babel on the other hand is quite simply never going to be upto it.

He's shown flashes of excellence in his 6 games or so with one shot, one pass, one turn/turn of pace. Apart from that, nothing.

by **redtrader74** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:08 pm

But Sami is still better than him

by **Smeg** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:21 pm

redtrader74 wrote:But Sami is still better than him

Sami's past his best. There isn't alot in it anymore. But Agger isn't at the level Hyypia was. Sami was a top class player and a commanding centre back. Agger isn't.

Agger would have made a good partner for Hyypia at his best, as would Carragher. Neither player though are really good enough to be our main centre half!

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