Liverpool FC Forum

Redman in wales wrote:agree with all those selected, inc bellamy.

But part of me does feel sorry for him, as - according to him anyway - he's not been allowed to show us what we can do. He's been told to play off the shoulder of the last defender. He's not allowed to come deep. At blackburn thats where he excelled, how he created space, set up goals with 1-2s etc. but the welsh news has been reporting that he's publicly stated that rafa has told him not to come deep (that being kuyts and crouch's role) he's being told just to stay on the last defender and thats it, and he even gets told off if he tries to come deep to help with the link up play. - if he wants space he has to go to the channels - therefore if there's a fast defender marking him, he's out of the game

dont know how much truth there is in that, but its been mentioned in the local welsh news a couple of times now.

even so, i still agree, he's not the standard we require, and should be looking for a replacement

if so, then wtf is rafa's gameplan??

we have kuyt who in holland played a very advanced role, and bellamy who prefers to come deep to get the ball. so rafa tells kuyt to drop off, and bellamy to play in a more advanced position 

Penguins wrote:Get real.
U ask me if the side is good enough to win the title.
I say no way.
Is that Rafa's fault?
I say no way?
Why is it that Rafa has been forced to make changes each season every year?
Cause of Houlliers dead wood that was a mess and is still in the works of being taken care of. Those wasted 50 million by Houllier set us back years since we don't have the kind of money manure and Chelski have.

And Houllier got 7 years!!!
He won 1 uefa cup and one FA cup. Missed top 4 and champions league football a few of those years.
Rafa was the most succesful manager the 1st 2 years than any Liverpool manager. So this might be the 1st without a title. Compared to what Manure has built up the last 10 years and Maureen spent the last few years, Rafa has had to work with. And still won titles!

Traore, Baros, Smicer, Dudek. All players that may be ok for Villas and Blackburns of the world. They still got a european cup!
Rafa took over a shattered side 04 when Owen was going, gerrard was thinking of going and almost no money cause of the money invested in Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Cisse.
has had to work like crazy to find any takers for those players over the years and still Le tallec, Cisse is on the books.
Not only that Chelski became a team Houllier never had to face. Bought players for hundreds of millions and rafa still beat them in the semis with Dudek, Traore, etc. Only a magician could do that.

But some live in the 70´s and 80´s still thinking we have a good given right to win. We are now the underdog every year. Even Tottenhams and Newcastles of the world spend more than us and get better sponsorship deals!
In todays football spending most normally means best chance at the title. We spend around 4th-5th most and still can end 3rd. Not a disaster to me. I also dream of winning the title but if anyone can make it happen in todays world Rafa can. Whoeever we replace him with will not do a better job with the resources Liverpool has given Rafa.

Ciggy wrote:

Penguins wrote:Especially since most people doesn't understand what miracles rafa perform with the resources he has been given.
Around 15 teams in Europe has more resources to buy players from than Liverpool still we won the European cup with Traore, Baros etc.
Then wow he gets 20 million to buy Kuyt, bellamy and Pennant.

Manure spend 18 million for 1 player Carrick. Not to mention the 56 million spent on Ferdinand and Rooney.

And The other team which we should just overrun Chelski, has got Phillips and Kalou on their bench costing aroung 40 million!!
Oh and Drogba and Essien cost another 50.
I just get sad when **** come and say Rafa must go if we don't win the league with 20% of the resources as our main rivals.

How many players out of this current squad are good enough to stay?
How many of this current squad do you think are capable of winning the prem, challenging for the domestic cups and in Europe.?
People say our team is better than last season well they certainly havent performed that way, we finished 1 point behind the mancs last season even when they still had Sea Biscuit.

Carrick hasnt been the reason Rooney, Ronaldo and the return of Scholes have made the difference.
Take Ronaldo out of United and they are very ordinary like today at Goodison before he came on as sub.

The problem for me is if Rafa starts to make whole sale changes again at the start of next season and we are out of the title race by October a lot of people will be p.issed off.
its ok to rotate one or 2 if if a players injured then obviously its neccessary, but to do it for no reason when the season has just begun when players are back from their hols is pathetic.

I know we went into this season on the back of the WC but Chelsea and Manures teams are full of Internationals that played in the WC aswell.
They dont look very bloody tired to me.

I want to see a settled side that know each others game inside out, but the sad truth is we have been very poor away from home this season apart from Europe.

We should have been challenging in every cup comp this season now we have our last chance saloon on tuesday night, whilst the other 2 above us can still win a treble.

How can we finish 1 point behind United last season then bring in two forwards Kuyt/Bellamy two wingers Pennant/Gonzales to add to our attack and be toothless upfront away from home?
And still only in one comp at the end of the season I know its the BIG one.
But them two above us are fighting it out till the death to get their hands on everything.

They have had injuries, but we have one of the biggest squads in the league.
But guess what these two play the same players week in week out unless they have an injury and are forced to change things around.

I love Rafa dont get me wrong, but next season is his 4th season in charge I would like to see a settled side once and for all, get some kind of consistancy  to our play.

Because I personally cant wait to see the back of this one I think its been awful, the only thing we have had to sing about is in our Euro games and when we beat Chelsea at Anfield.

Penguins wrote:Get real.
U ask me if the side is good enough to win the title.
I say no way.
Is that Rafa's fault?
I say no way?
Why is it that Rafa has been forced to make changes each season every year?
Cause of Houlliers dead wood that was a mess and is still in the works of being taken care of. Those wasted 50 million by Houllier set us back years since we don't have the kind of money manure and Chelski have.

And Houllier got 7 years!!!
He won 1 uefa cup and one FA cup. Missed top 4 and champions league football a few of those years.
Rafa was the most succesful manager the 1st 2 years than any Liverpool manager. So this might be the 1st without a title. Compared to what Manure has built up the last 10 years and Maureen spent the last few years, Rafa has had to work with. And still won titles!

Traore, Baros, Smicer, Dudek. All players that may be ok for Villas and Blackburns of the world. They still got a european cup!
Rafa took over a shattered side 04 when Owen was going, gerrard was thinking of going and almost no money cause of the money invested in Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Cisse.
has had to work like crazy to find any takers for those players over the years and still Le tallec, Cisse is on the books.
Not only that Chelski became a team Houllier never had to face. Bought players for hundreds of millions and rafa still beat them in the semis with Dudek, Traore, etc. Only a magician could do that.

But some live in the 70´s and 80´s still thinking we have a good given right to win. We are now the underdog every year. Even Tottenhams and Newcastles of the world spend more than us and get better sponsorship deals!
In todays football spending most normally means best chance at the title. We spend around 4th-5th most and still can end 3rd. Not a disaster to me. I also dream of winning the title but if anyone can make it happen in todays world Rafa can. Whoeever we replace him with will not do a better job with the resources Liverpool has given Rafa.

Houllier was not here for seven years.

We made a profit on Traore and Baros, both of which won a champions league under new management so obviously weren't the worst signings ever made. Smicer was also not a bad player. If you wanted to pick bad signings you could have picked Sissy, Diouf, Diao or Cheyrou, instead you pick players who won things with us, played their part, scored vital goals and were sold for a profit...

You then talk about Rafa having no money?

I'm sorry but he doesn't deserve a penny the way he's wasted it so far. Bar Luis Garcia, Alonso, Reina and Fowler his signings have been poor to average. He's consistenly missed out on excellent players such as Ashton, Anelka, Woodgate, Taylor and Bullard and brought in players like Crouch, Kuyt, Agger, Sissoko, Arbeloa, Kromkamp, Josemi and Gonzalez.

He's come in to manage Liverpool and has one of the best midfielders in the world in Gerrard and he's completely chosen to ignore that. For me he's simply brought in to many players who aren't first team material and he's wasted to much money where better players were available. This summer he no excuses. He must improve the team with class and quality.

I'd strongly suggest he signs a FIRST CHOICE centre half and two strikers who will play every week otherwise we're in for much of the same next season.

I for one, am running out of patience with him.

RichardLFC1 wrote:If Bellamy does go then maybe a swap with A.Villa for Gareth Barry. Or maybe with Portsmouth for Matthew Taylor.

Zenden should be sold
Kewell should be sold.
Fowler should be sold   

So you want us to release players like Fowler and Kewell...

And bring in Mathew Taylor? Get real. Mathew Taylor's a distinctly average player who wouldn't be much of an improvement on Gonzalez.

And you want us to release class?



Why don't we sell Gerrard and replace him with Robbie Savage?

redtrader74 wrote:

Penguins wrote:Get real.
U ask me if the side is good enough to win the title.
I say no way.
Is that Rafa's fault?
I say no way?
Why is it that Rafa has been forced to make changes each season every year?
Cause of Houlliers dead wood that was a mess and is still in the works of being taken care of. Those wasted 50 million by Houllier set us back years since we don't have the kind of money manure and Chelski have.

And Houllier got 7 years!!!
He won 1 uefa cup and one FA cup. Missed top 4 and champions league football a few of those years.
Rafa was the most succesful manager the 1st 2 years than any Liverpool manager. So this might be the 1st without a title. Compared to what Manure has built up the last 10 years and Maureen spent the last few years, Rafa has had to work with. And still won titles!

Traore, Baros, Smicer, Dudek. All players that may be ok for Villas and Blackburns of the world. They still got a european cup!
Rafa took over a shattered side 04 when Owen was going, gerrard was thinking of going and almost no money cause of the money invested in Diao, Diouf, Cheyrou, Le Tallec, Cisse.
has had to work like crazy to find any takers for those players over the years and still Le tallec, Cisse is on the books.
Not only that Chelski became a team Houllier never had to face. Bought players for hundreds of millions and rafa still beat them in the semis with Dudek, Traore, etc. Only a magician could do that.

But some live in the 70´s and 80´s still thinking we have a good given right to win. We are now the underdog every year. Even Tottenhams and Newcastles of the world spend more than us and get better sponsorship deals!
In todays football spending most normally means best chance at the title. We spend around 4th-5th most and still can end 3rd. Not a disaster to me. I also dream of winning the title but if anyone can make it happen in todays world Rafa can. Whoeever we replace him with will not do a better job with the resources Liverpool has given Rafa.

Too fu(king right. any clowns who think that Rafa needs to go should we not win the title next year are talking out their ar5ehole.

It aint the 70s 80s, then the spending between the top clubs and the mid league was a difference of 3-5milllion.

If you want to blame someone look at the previous board, they let Houllier spend sh1tloads on nobodies, marketing is from the 50's.
Where has LFC tv been? where are our superstores?? let me tell you we could bang a store in the centre of Oxford street, we have millions of supporters.

Rafa is the man to take us forward, and in any case there is no replacement for him.

So we have to blame Houllier for Rafa's failings?

I've heard it all now.

Stu.Murph wrote:So wy would you want to sell Hyypia?

Do you really think that £1,000,000 is going to make a difference?

Do you not believe we need 4 quality centre backs?

7_Kewell wrote:

Stu.Murph wrote:So wy would you want to sell Hyypia?

Do you really think that £1,000,000 is going to make a difference?

Do you not believe we need 4 quality centre backs?

at his age i don't think he'll be happy with 20 games a season.  It'll be Hamman all over again...he's 34 and I think he'll want 1 or 2 seasons of regular first team action.

So without him actually saying otherwise you want us to sell him for peanuts and be left with Agger and Carragher as the centre halfs next season?

And what if one or even both of them were to get injured? Or suspended?

What a completely utterly stupid thing to say.