Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu.Murph]

Whats quite comical is you turn every debate into a Fowler debate just because you got it completely and utterly wrong and it absoloutely grates your nerve. Not once did I mention Fowler... Who again wasn't bad yesterday.

You then proceed by asking do I think we should bring back Rush and Barnes? Do you actually think thats funny or even rellivant and do you actually think theres a comparrison with Rush and Barnes who are in there fourties and haven't played professional football for the best part of ten years to a player who both this and last season has still pretty much played and scored in alot of games?

Then when that has no effect you start saying things like "Spew"...

I mean come on seriously? Can you not do any better than that? A five year old could probably come up with something better than that.

On a side note...

The only time you post more than a couple of lines is by putting a word on each line...

Like
this
because
you
don't
have
a
clue
about
footall.

" "

if i'm so clueless spew, why is it YOU keep getting banned from here for

racist
abusive
personal
offensive
remarks 

don't tell me...EVERYONE'S wrong 

The only things that grates me is having players at LFC who arn't good enough...Gonzalez for example.  But to listen to your about how one of our worst players should be give 'a chance' every match is a joke. My point about Rush and Barnes is they stayed for WAY past their best and that dragged us down with it. You seem to be from the opion of the mid 90's..."they are legends we can't sell them" Sorry, but if you're not good enough then you go...simple.

And what does any of that have to do with football? The answer absoloutely nothing. Why did you bring that up? Because you're incapable of talking about something you know absoloutely nothing about. At least you're admitting it indirectly now.

If you want to talk about bans, racist and personal abuse, my msn address is on my profile on here, feel free to add me. Otherwise stick to what the topics about as your constant snipping is boring, childish, wrong and completely clueless.

At the end of the day, if you're going to be a fuckwit then I'll tell you exactly what you are. Why shouldn't I?

Lets face it, I come on here to discuss football with people like Ivor, Bob, Scottbot, Scott, Dalglish, Mick and even Bamaga man (who although clueless at least backs up what he says ). Theres other people on here aswell who want to enter debate and have opinions on things and are more than willing to back them up. Something you've NEVER once done since day one... You seem to think because you follow the masses like a sheep you're right and can laugh at others, well unfortunately for you, bullying (especially over the internet ) doesn't intimidate me. I'd much rather have intelligent two sided debate with people who are capable, like the ones mentioned above, than waste my time on idiots who come out with things like "You're wrong because Nigel Worthington said so".

Enough said on the matter.

" "

[tubby]

I think now that Rafa has the funds to compete on a larger scale we no longer have to settle for second best (or 3rd in some cases). The most important thing is come next season that we have depth in our squad. We already have a good squad but take away one or 2 players for a game or 2 and we lose our balance.

[66-1112520797]

and even Bamaga man (who although clueless at least backs up what he says  )

Oi Stu, I thought we agreed that I pay you to say nice things about me ?

[EddieC]

I think we currently have a good 23 man squad that is comfortably better than anything outside of the top 4. But from my experience it’s always those special individuals that win you titles and the only one we have is Gerrard.

Goals from midfield win you the title, Ronaldo, Lampard, Pires, etc. We play a 4 in midfield with two fairly disciplined central midfielders, so the goals have to come from the wide midfield players. Imagine if we had Ronaldo instead of Pennant, how many more points would be have? We have many team players but I feel we need some excellent individuals to help us win the title. I special wide player and a special striker would take us to a new level.

I’m not ready to discard Paletta and Gonzalez yet. I think we should attempt to find them good loan deals in England were they would play every week and re-evaluate at the end of the season.

So targets in the summer for me would be a forth choice centre back, a left midfielder and a striker of genuine quality. And we could find a quality right sided midfielder I would let Pennant go.

From the little I have seen none of the reserves and youngsters none are ready to be part of the first team squad, we should attempt to get them loan deals were we can.


                              Reina
                              Carson
                              Padelli

Finnan         Carragher        Agger        Aurelio
Arbeloa          ??           Hyypia        Riise

??           Alonso          Gerrard        ??
Garcia       Mascherano       Sissoko      Kewell

                    Kuyt              ??
                  Voronin          Crouch



Out on loan:

Paletta
Gonzalez


Sell:

Pennant (Possibly)
Fowler
Dudek
Bellamy
Zenden
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Cisse

We can challenge for the title next season but only if we sign two or three high quality players who are ready to go straight into the team and perform.

Good post, agree with near enough all of it.

Kewell for me though, has to go. It doesn't matter how good a player is, if he's never fit he's no good to the club. Kewell's had enough chances now & let us down every time. Obviously he doesn't choose to get injured, and it is a shame, but I would definately get rid. I would actually have Garcia for the left (he is left footed after all) and keep Pennant on the right, with new (class) signings to come in on both sides. As Pennant is a natural winger & Garcia isn't, I'd say buy an out & out winger for the left, and a right midfield player as supposed to a winger.

Personally my choices would be Pedersen for the left & Alves for the right. I know Stu's gonna see this & have a little rant that I'm clueless, Alves is a right back, and it's madness to play someone out of position, but I think as a right back Alves would be a liability. I haven't watched loads of games he's played this season, but from the seven or so I have seen one thing's struck me every time. Very quick to get forward, not so quick to get back. For this reason I feel he would play better in midfield, or as a wing back when we play three at the back.

Up front, I'd agree Bellamy has to go, lots of effort for little return. Kuyt I feel, has shown a lot of promise, and will benefit from having a class strike partner. Crouch also, would benefit. My first choice would be Villa, but not sure if we'll get priced out. I would be happy with Eto'o or Berbatov too, but the one player I would not be happy with is Torres, his goals per games ratio is good, but his shots to goals ratio tells a different story.

In central defence, Rafa doesn't seem to rotate as much as in other areas. For that reason I wouldn't buy another CB, as they'd never really get the opportunity to play. On the very odd occasion they would be needed, one out of Hobbs, Antwi or Roque should suffice.

So my squad would look like this:

                      Reina
                     Carson
                     Padelli

Finnan      Carragher    Agger    Riise
Arbeloa      ? (youth)   Hyypia   Aurelio

Alves         Gerrard     Alonso    Pedersen
Pennant     Sissoko     Masch    Garcia

                Kuyt       Villa?
                Crouch    Voronin

[Stu.Murph]

and even Bamaga man (who although clueless at least backs up what he says  )

Oi Stu, I thought we agreed that I pay you to say nice things about me ?

Paul you can get away with anything if theres a smiley there.

[LFC #1]

But to listen to your about how one of our worst players

Clueless statement.

[7_Kewell]

internet bullying? 

all you do on here is abuse people when their opinion doesn't agree with yours...i've offered a side of my argument yet you normally ignore it.  Do you agree with me that Ian Rush and John Barnes stayed at liverpool beyond their best?  Why on earth would a Liverpool fan want us to play weaker players and give up on 3rd place?  You've been proven wrong on the whole Fowler issue...you claimed he would be back to his best...geting 20+ league goals and pushing for an England recall.  You've fallen on your and have backed yourself into a corner on the issue...and won't accept he's not good enough. 

as for other stupid things you've said...didn't you claim Barton was better than Gerrard? 

you're a moron who obviously can't voice their opinion outside their computer and we have to suffer for it.  As for personal abuse..prior to your last ban you said people like me should suffer from Cancer...a really nice thing to say stu..especially seeing it was at the time Phil was still posting. i'm surprised you have the front to even come here.

[7_Kewell]

But to listen to your about how one of our worst players

Clueless statement.

he's the unfittest and slowest memeber of our squad. At least Traore could RUN for 90 mins.

[LFC #1]

But to listen to your about how one of our worst players

Clueless statement.

he's the unfittest and slowest memeber of our squad. At least Traore could RUN for 90 mins.

Yet he's still the most intelligent striker and best finisher we have. (to be pedantic he's quicker than Smai btw) 

He's not capable of playing 90 mins anymore granted (even 60 - 70 is pushing it) but he's still more than capable of doing a job and scoring goals. He has been criminally underused this season and that is something most will agree on. But you  seem to have an agenda against the lad which is perplexing considering he is one the greatest strikers ever to pull on the red shirt.

[Bad Bob]

But to listen to your about how one of our worst players

Clueless statement.

he's the unfittest and slowest memeber of our squad. At least Traore could RUN for 90 mins.

Even if Fowler had one leg he'd still offer more to the team than Traore and his 90 minutes of running.

Clearly you can't be convinced on Fowler because that's too tied up with your feud with Stu.  But, do us a favour mate and stop making out as though EVERYONE but Stu thinks Fowler is past it.  There's quite a few of people around here--knowledgeable, respected football posters--that still think Fowler brings quite a bit to the side.  Oh, and I do too! 

[66-1112520797]

and even Bamaga man (who although clueless at least backs up what he says  )

Oi Stu, I thought we agreed that I pay you to say nice things about me ?

Paul you can get away with anything if theres a smiley there.

Yeah I know 

[7_Kewell]

But to listen to your about how one of our worst players

Clueless statement.

he's the unfittest and slowest memeber of our squad. At least Traore could RUN for 90 mins.

Yet he's still the most intelligent striker and best finisher we have. (to be pedantic he's quicker than Smai btw) 

He's not capable of playing 90 mins anymore granted (even 60 - 70 is pushing it) but he's still more than capable of doing a job and scoring goals. He has been criminally underused this season and that is something most will agree on. But you  seem to have an agenda against the lad which is perplexing considering he is one the greatest strikers ever to pull on the red shirt.

thats true..and he's our 4th choice striker.  But this seems to be a no win situation, because Fowler isn't good enough to play every match and if he's a part player people say he's rusty and can't get into matches because he lacks fitness.

The only agenda i have is to see the best players in a Liverpool shirt.  I said the same thing when Barnes and Rush were past their peak.  People refused to accept these 'legends' weren't good enough and our team suffered for it.

[account deleted by request]

Reina
                    Carson
                    Padelli

Finnan      Carragher    Agger    Riise
Arbeloa      ? (youth)   Hyypia   Aurelio

Alves         Gerrard     Alonso    Pedersen
Pennant     Sissoko     Masch    Garcia

               Kuyt       Villa?
               Crouch    Voronin

I was looking at EddieC squad (As good as any above), and no matter how optomistically I look at it, that squad is NOT good enough to win the prem. A hard working squad with a couple of great players but a significant lack of the flair and quality needed.  I just hope Rafa can work miracles because unfortunately I think we will need one   

[Effes]

I just hope Rafa can work miracles because unfortunately I think we will need one   

Agree with that.

You need to get around 88+ points to win the league nowadays and I cant see us making that jump in one season.

Ferguson managed it, but he's very experienced in the Prem.

You need to have a great away record to get that total; I'm not convinced Rafa would play such attacking football away from home.

[Stu.Murph]

I think we currently have a good 23 man squad that is comfortably better than anything outside of the top 4. But from my experience it’s always those special individuals that win you titles and the only one we have is Gerrard.

Goals from midfield win you the title, Ronaldo, Lampard, Pires, etc. We play a 4 in midfield with two fairly disciplined central midfielders, so the goals have to come from the wide midfield players. Imagine if we had Ronaldo instead of Pennant, how many more points would be have? We have many team players but I feel we need some excellent individuals to help us win the title. I special wide player and a special striker would take us to a new level.

I’m not ready to discard Paletta and Gonzalez yet. I think we should attempt to find them good loan deals in England were they would play every week and re-evaluate at the end of the season.

So targets in the summer for me would be a forth choice centre back, a left midfielder and a striker of genuine quality. And we could find a quality right sided midfielder I would let Pennant go.

From the little I have seen none of the reserves and youngsters none are ready to be part of the first team squad, we should attempt to get them loan deals were we can.


                              Reina
                              Carson
                              Padelli

Finnan         Carragher        Agger        Aurelio
Arbeloa          ??           Hyypia        Riise

??           Alonso          Gerrard        ??
Garcia       Mascherano       Sissoko      Kewell

                    Kuyt              ??
                  Voronin          Crouch



Out on loan:

Paletta
Gonzalez


Sell:

Pennant (Possibly)
Fowler
Dudek
Bellamy
Zenden
Pongolle
Le Tallec
Cisse

We can challenge for the title next season but only if we sign two or three high quality players who are ready to go straight into the team and perform.

Good post, agree with near enough all of it.

Kewell for me though, has to go. It doesn't matter how good a player is, if he's never fit he's no good to the club. Kewell's had enough chances now & let us down every time. Obviously he doesn't choose to get injured, and it is a shame, but I would definately get rid. I would actually have Garcia for the left (he is left footed after all) and keep Pennant on the right, with new (class) signings to come in on both sides. As Pennant is a natural winger & Garcia isn't, I'd say buy an out & out winger for the left, and a right midfield player as supposed to a winger.

Personally my choices would be Pedersen for the left & Alves for the right. I know Stu's gonna see this & have a little rant that I'm clueless, Alves is a right back, and it's madness to play someone out of position, but I think as a right back Alves would be a liability. I haven't watched loads of games he's played this season, but from the seven or so I have seen one thing's struck me every time. Very quick to get forward, not so quick to get back. For this reason I feel he would play better in midfield, or as a wing back when we play three at the back.

Up front, I'd agree Bellamy has to go, lots of effort for little return. Kuyt I feel, has shown a lot of promise, and will benefit from having a class strike partner. Crouch also, would benefit. My first choice would be Villa, but not sure if we'll get priced out. I would be happy with Eto'o or Berbatov too, but the one player I would not be happy with is Torres, his goals per games ratio is good, but his shots to goals ratio tells a different story.

In central defence, Rafa doesn't seem to rotate as much as in other areas. For that reason I wouldn't buy another CB, as they'd never really get the opportunity to play. On the very odd occasion they would be needed, one out of Hobbs, Antwi or Roque should suffice.

So my squad would look like this:

                      Reina
                     Carson
                     Padelli

Finnan      Carragher    Agger    Riise
Arbeloa      ? (youth)   Hyypia   Aurelio

Alves         Gerrard     Alonso    Pedersen
Pennant     Sissoko     Masch    Garcia

                Kuyt       Villa?
                Crouch    Voronin

Right firstly on Kewell, I can completely see where you're coming from and would be 100% inclined to agree if you can name someone as good. I've completely and utterly lost faith in Harry's ability to play a game. BUT... and this is a big BUT... name someone as good...

For me Pedersen just isn't. He's not quick enough, he's not clever enough and he's sloppy on the ball. Yes he can score a goal and works quite hard, yes he can head a ball, but I'd rather see Riise at left midfield than Pedersen. Kewell's on a different level altogether and I really don't believe Pedersen's as good as Riise is in practically any department apart from his set peices. Its like with Gareth Barry, I think he's a propper footballer but again I wouldn't want him as his style and quality aren't right unless of course we were to sign the lad as a left back.

On Alves I've seen the lad about 15 times. Right back and right wing are completely different positions mate. I've said it time and time again and you never ever ever should play a player out of position to disguise his weaknesses. Different positions require different things, if you watch Alves he's excellent at coming on to the play, over lapping from a full back position, his distribution from the full back position is also top quality. But when you push foward you aren't in a position to do this. Its like saying Frank Lampards a good finisher and has excellent movement so play him upfront. It doesn't make sense. Especially spending that amount of money on a player.

Absoloutely no way as a right back would he be a liability. He's quick, strong in the tackle, works hard, overlaps, hugs the line and creates space aswell as tracks back excellently and I don't see how you can sit there and say the best right back in the world would be a liability playing in his natural position.

You also then mention a wing back... again its a different position completley to a left back and a left midfielder. Riise can play as a left back and left midfielder, but as a wing back when we've played that system he's looked lost. Warnock perfects the system. It requires different thinking, different tacitcal knowledge and different positional play both with and without the ball. Knowing when to tuck in and when to push out. As a wide midfielder its about knowing the sort of protection the full back needs then finding the space to give him an outlet and the correct outlet.

Anyway, as I said, Just because a player has the attribtutes to play in a position doesn't mean he's good at it. Steven Gerrard has all the attributes to play anywhere on the pitch. Yet you wouldn't play the lad upfront under anything except desperate circumstances.

Different players aswell can be natrual's in different positions, Gerrard right back, right mid, centre mid, Barry, left back, left midfield, Riise, left back left midfield. Carragher as a an out an out defender. But look at Roy Keane and Vieira. One position wonders who for me, both had more ability than Gerrard as a player in alot of attributes.

It was like with Ashley Cole a few years ago, people were saying he's weak defensively so play him on the left wing for England, it failed, as it did with Bridge who incidently is a very similar player "in style not quality" to Alves. If you watch Wayne Bridge you can see he can beat a man, cross and use pace. For what its worth, he's another player I'd have at Liverpool, but thats a different story.

On the subject of the forwards. Everyone knows my thoughts. None of them are good enough bar Robbie for a fourth choice and I feel if we keep them we'll just end up with more of the same next season. Can you imagine us going and spending £20,000,000 on Villa for him to pick up an injury in the second game of the season? That would leave us back at square one. We need AT LEAST 2 strikers with the required class and in my opinion 3. Tevez, Ashton and Anelka or players of those moulds but obviously better.

IE one who drops off into the hole (Tevez), one with pace and intelligence who (Anelka) and a target man who can win a header and play with his back to goal (Ashton). All of which can also score goals and I feel you'd get at least around the 15 mark in the league and the 20 mark from all of those players aswell as assists as all of them are capable of bringing more than just goals.

Also in central defence you say you'd go with Hyypia, Carragher and Agger? What happens if we have what Chelsea have this season and end up missing two of those for five games which is entirely possible. Can you imagine Agger playing with Palletta or even Hobbs or Antwi? It doesn't even bare thinking about. Imagine if it happened at a time we had to play United and Chelsea away? We'd get murdered, either that or we'd have to stick Stevie at centre half which is compete madness in a game like that.

If we lost Hyypia and Carragher we'd fall to peices without question. For me those three aren't upto it anyway as we lack a genuine top class centre back (Woodgate would have been perfect).

What people do is seem to look at our defensive record and then suggest we're superbly strong as individuals. Well like I've said a thousand times. You put our players in Uniteds defence and I think you'd see a completely different story as they don't have Alonso, Gerrard, Sissoko, Mascherano, Kuyt and Bellamy protecting them.

We have a hard working side which is hard to break down, as do Chelsea, but neither team as individuals come close to United. My points clear, if we improve the individuals and leave the system as it is, our defence will then become stronger or it will allow us to play a more expansive and open game and score more goals while keeping the solidity at the back.

I personally think you're underestimating how good you have to be to win a title or you're overestimating the current Liverpool side.

Absoloute cast Iron fact, we were a better side last season. Opinion which is clear to see why I have, we looked a better side both attack and defending last year.

This season I've seen 3 gutless performances. Last season I saw 1.