Liverpool FC Forum

by **Istanpool** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:36 am

[quote="Espionage"][/quote]
1. What do you think Stevie G's best position is?

I donot know how you say it in English, but it is the position something we call in Turkish " front libero" or "forward libero". That's the position of Patrick Viera plays, especially during his years in Arsenal. Gerrard's has superb tackling and passing abilities but not in the form of center middlefielder./playmaker. Rather pre-playmaker.

2. What is his best position for Liverpool, when taking into account our current squad and tactical preference?
Is it different from question 1?
If so then what does it change to, and why?

As everybody says, tactics is decided based on your players portfolio.
I see no problem in Liverpool's defense but the wings. If Aurelio and Pennant play as expected I would go to 3- 1- 4 -2, putting Gerrard at -1- position in this layout. Other two in -4- are Xabi and Mommo. Forward Kuyt & Crouch at home, Bellamy & Kuyt away.

3. Momo and Alonso make a very good partnership (and have a lot of potential to grow), do you think that it is worth sticking with these guys and letting Gerrard fill whatever midfield role which is weakest?

I do not expect Gerrard is suitable to play playmaker if this is the question. Maybe on the mid-right (as he did superb at 2005 UCL Final here in Turkey)

4. Gerrard playing right/free-role with Momo and Xabi central gave very good results last season. Fans loved it when Gerrard played well, and said that it wasnt his fault when he played poorly (as it was the fact that he wasnt playing central/got isolated/etc). Is this another case of people blaming the manager when its the fault of the player? Or has Rafa got it wrong?

Problem is sourced from the fact that Gerrard is taken as a "mobile" player who fills every space on the pitch. Any other who plays poorly in the game often replaced by Gerrard in the layout. I donot remember how many different positions he played.

5. Do you think that at the end of his career he will look back at his flexability as being a blessing or a curse?

Considering his current market value of 30M pounds, I think he would not care...

bonus question: A few people have suggested that Gerrard will leave at the end of the season after a frustrating year becasue he was played out of position all season. Do you think that this is true?

Rumor.

by **stmichael** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:50 am

Espionage wrote:I think that Gerrard debates are really interesting. Rafa obviously rates the combo of Momo and Alonso higher then he does of Gerrard and another. I am not sure what Rafa plans, but I think that it will eventually be a 4-5-1, with Gerrard playing as a free role.
Our starting 11 should be something along the lines of this:

Reina
Finnan Carragher Agger Riise

Alonso

Momo and Gerrard
Pennant
Bellamy
Kuyt/Crouch

Or alternatively take out Pennant and put on Gonzalez/Kewell and put Bellamy on the right. I really liked the way that Rafa utilised Cisse last year, if he wasnt so sh!t then he would have made the right wing his own. Bellamy can cross, run the channels beautifully and can finish. If you remember the way that we used Cisse was in a 4-4-2 but almost looked like a 4-5-1 because he was so so wide (but he was still definately a striker (sort of ))

I think that the system that Rafa is going for is letting Gerrard and Momo do whatever they want while not getting in each other's way too much and let Alonso tidy up playing a Makelele-style holding role.

IMO its not a question of Gerrard vs. Alonso/Momo and about whoever is the best 2 midfielders play. Its Momo or Alonso vs. Pennant and Gonzalez. As long as both Momo and Alonso are better then Pennant and Gonzalez (individually) then Gerrard will play one of either right/left midfield.

Dispite what some other people may thing, I believe that Rafa is not constructing a team that doesnt have a spot for Gerrard. I wouldnt go as far as to say that everything revolves around Gerrard (as I think that everything revolves around Alonso), but Gerrard is not just filling in the gaps at the moment. I believe that this is where he will play the rest of his career.

It will be interesting how Gerrard changes as a player over the next few seasons. I think that him moving wider has changed him for the better.

This topic will just never go away because the bottom line is, over two years into Rafa's tenure here, he still hasn't found a way to use his best player most effectively.

Despite being brilliant last season, I'm coming to the conclusion now that long term I don't think Gerrard on the right will work for several reasons. Say what you like about manager picks the team, but if a player isn't enjoying himself you'll get less out of him. And Gerrard, whether he's prepared to make the sacrifice (which he clearly has been) or not, doesn't enjoy himself nearly as much out wide as through the centre. In addition, he doesn't have a trick to beat a player so against a stationary defence with everyone behind the ball he doesn't look so good.

Gerrard in the middle plus one won't work becuase, as has been pointed out, he's no longer an orthodox centre midfielder - and he does his best work further forward anyway. So that tends to suggest the three of them (Momo, Xabi and Gerrard) all in the middle with Gerrard further forward of the other two - and this has the advantage that those three in the centre at the same time is out strongest suit. But then where do you get the extra player to accommodate that?

I've heard some people suggest we play one up front (in other words 4-2-3-1); so we have four strikers for a single starting position? Stand back and wait for the unrest - and justifiably so I'd say if that's the case. Besides, I don't think we're tactially disciplined enough for that formation.

It's for these reasons I find 3-5-2 irresistable.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:21 pm

Gerrard in the middle plus one won't work becuase, as has been pointed out, he's no longer an orthodox centre midfielder - and he does his best work further forward anyway. So that tends to suggest the three of them (Momo, Xabi and Gerrard) all in the middle with Gerrard further forward of the other two - and this has the advantage that those three in the centre at the same time is out strongest suit. But then where do you get the extra player to accommodate that?

He's no longer an orthadox midfielder ? So he used to be but....... ?

I'm sorry but I dont agree with that, I think Gerrard IS an orthadox midfielder he is a box to box midfielder. He is almost as good at tackling and tracking as he is going forward while coming from deeper positions. Playing him further forward, doesnt get the best out of him, he's not a play maker, he can be more easily picked up and marked out of the game further forward. As you said he doesnt have the skill to go past a static defence, thats why he's best at bombing from deep rather than being there waiting for the ball. He's an all action midfielder and to me that means his best position would be in the engine room. Most people seem to be saying Gerrards not a center mid, because Momo and Xabi are and do well. But if we hadnt of signed Momo I bet there wouldnt even be a murmur of Gerrard not being a CM.

by **redmikey** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:48 pm

the problem is that rafa bought xabi and momo when stevie looked like he was leavin, we now have three very different but all very good cm players, and SG is the best at playing in other positions

when he lined up on the left i was just glad he started instead of zenden, who is also a good(not great ) cm lm player, that is the talent SG has is that he took the role on played narrower than your normal lm but played well,

we all what SG to play every game because we know what he can pull out of the bag when we most need it , but rafa is trying to make sure that he is at 100% in every game he starts and that is impossible for any player , SG dosn't like it but he will feel the beneift at the end of the season

oh and just to say that if people wanna start saying he is leaving and all the other boll@cks

DON'T :angry:

by **mattylfc** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:22 pm

I dont agree St mich that 'over two years into Rafa's tenure here, he still hasn't found a way to use his best player most effectively'.

Gerrard has been exceptional in the past few seasons and has been acknowledged for it too. I sometimes feel like people think Gerrard is just doing the team a favour by playing RM just to accomodate Sissoko and Alonso. I dont think this is the case at all. Benitez is playing Gerrard in these positions because he has such an impact going forward. Thats why Mclaren is playing him there for England too.

and this...'I'm coming to the conclusion now that long term I don't think Gerrard on the right will work for several reasons. Say what you like about manager picks the team, but if a player isn't enjoying himself you'll get less out of him.

I dont understand why people keep suggesting that CM is definately his best position. Dont get me wrong, i do like him there but he has proved week in week out that he is great on the right. He gets the freedom to roam and have a real impact on the game. One of his best attributes is when he can utilise space to get into his stride and run with pace and determination. He is sometimes unable to do this in the middle of the park due to limited space and defensive responsiblities. He scored so many goals last season because he was able to play with freedom and link up with the forwards and get in behind the defense. He wouldnt create half as many chances for himself from playing in the middle of the park.

Last season he scooped the PFA player of the year award when spending the majority of the season at RM. I think that suggests alone that it works.

by **stmichael** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:28 pm

Personally I couldn't give a sh#t where Stevie played HIS best season. We had our most consistent season for years with him starting on the right and that's the only thing I'm bothered about.

I'm a Liverpool supporter not a Steven Gerrard supporter.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:35 pm

mattylfc wrote:I dont agree St mich that 'over two years into Rafa's tenure here, he still hasn't found a way to use his best player most effectively'.

Gerrard has been exceptional in the past few seasons and has been acknowledged for it too. I sometimes feel like people think Gerrard is just doing the team a favour by playing RM just to accomodate Sissoko and Alonso. I dont think this is the case at all. Benitez is playing Gerrard in these positions because he has such an impact going forward. Thats why Mclaren is playing him there for England too.

and this...'I'm coming to the conclusion now that long term I don't think Gerrard on the right will work for several reasons. Say what you like about manager picks the team, but if a player isn't enjoying himself you'll get less out of him.

I dont understand why people keep suggesting that CM is definately his best position. Dont get me wrong, i do like him there but he has proved week in week out that he is great on the right. He gets the freedom to roam and have a real impact on the game. One of his best attributes is when he can utilise space to get into his stride and run with pace and determination. He is sometimes unable to do this in the middle of the park due to limited space and defensive responsiblities. He scored so many goals last season because he was able to play with freedom and link up with the forwards and get in behind the defense. He wouldnt create half as many chances for himself from playing in the middle of the park.

Last season he scooped the PFA player of the year award when spending the majority of the season at RM. I think that suggests alone that it works.

Good point.

But do you not think that if Sissoko hadnt been brought, Rafa would of played Gerrard CM. I do, infact I would of thought Rafa brought in Momo as cover for the two (Alonso & Gerrard) but as its turned out the African has been almost undroppable. Also coupled with our lack of quality on the right (last season especially) Rafa chose to keep Sissoko in the center and play Gerrard out wide.

I honestly believe Benitez is trying to accomodate all three of them, and in doing so will move Gerrard out wide. Where he is more than capable, but I still stand by the opinion he's EVEN better in the center.

by **stmichael** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:42 pm

In very simplistic terms, a good football side needs its best players on the ball as much as possible. Usually this means sticking the best players down the spine of the team. Gerrard really has to be in the middle from that point of view.

The problem is that Gerrard is the only player capable of covering up deficiencies down the flanks. I think we haven't got really top players in our wide positions still. The manager has tried to address this in the summer but the jury is definitely out on whether he's been successful.

On the right, Pennant's decision-making and ball usage leaves a lot to be desired at times and we haven't got anyone at a top level down the left. I'm not convinced as yet by any of Aurelio, Zenden or Gonzalez at left midfield.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:23 pm

Of course Gerrard can still play CM and that's probably his best position, truth be told. However, he is a d.amn fine RM as well and since I like the look of our team with Sissoko and Alonso at CM, I'm inclined to keep Stevie out wide and let him do his damage from there.

Having said that, however, there are games where Gerrard's just not going to be as effective at RM. Against the likes of Chelsea or the Mancs I'd be tempted to have all three in CM (using a 4-5-1 or 3-5-2) to let Gerrard see more of the ball.

In other games he can start on the right and if he's not getting the service, we can move him to CM and sacrifice Sissoko (bring on Pennant) to help him get the ball more.

As long as Rafa takes Stevie aside and explains that he'll being playing virtually every game and that his role will either by on the right or in the centre of midfield, with a brief to both attack and defend in his unparalleled all-action style, he should be a happy chappy and not on the look-out for pastures new.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:00 pm

Like Murphy i think if we played 3-5-2 then Gerrard could play as the more advanced centre midfielder, probably his best position...as it allows him to drift all over the pitch and be so difficult to pick up.

Tbh though it wouldnt bother me if he played on the left at times, he might be right footed but he can cut inside and take pots shots with his stronger foot, and whip crosses in that bend inwards, and are so difficult to defend.
What people tend to forget is that during the game Gerrard will play in about 3 or 4 positions anyway so where he starts isn't necessarily a major worry.

by **Istanpool** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:15 pm

Ace Ventura wrote:What people tend to forget is that during the game Gerrard will play in about 3 or 4 positions anyway so where he starts isn't necessarily a major worry.

I guess this is the problem. I do not know any player who is accepted as legendary or star played so different positions..

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:32 pm

Istanpool wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:What people tend to forget is that during the game Gerrard will play in about 3 or 4 positions anyway so where he starts isn't necessarily a major worry.

I guess this is the problem. I do not know any player who is accepted as legendary or star played so different positions..

Zinedine Zidane played all over the midfield and he's most certainly a legend. Ronaldinho's another who roams all over the pitch, regardless of where he starts a match. The best midfielders in the world aren't necessarily nailed down to a particular position over the course of the game, regardless of what the teamsheet says.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:41 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Istanpool wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:What people tend to forget is that during the game Gerrard will play in about 3 or 4 positions anyway so where he starts isn't necessarily a major worry.

I guess this is the problem. I do not know any player who is accepted as legendary or star played so different positions..

Zinedine Zidane played all over the midfield and he's most certainly a legend. Ronaldinho's another who roams all over the pitch, regardless of where he starts a match. The best midfielders in the world aren't necessarily nailed down to a particular position over the course of the game, regardless of what the teamsheet says.

Exactly, the team sheet might of looked like Gerrard started on the left on Sunday but he never...Kuyt did, after about ten minutes things changed and that carried on throughout the game, it makes it harder for the opposition to pick up our star player and for Terry and Carvalho to pick up Kuyt, as they are unsure on whether to track the player or hold their position.
Goals will come soon enough, i am sure of that.

by **Effes** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am

In the Guardian today:

Rafael Benítez last night issued a vehement defence of his use of Steven Gerrard this season, insisting he will continue to deploy the England midfielder in positions he feels will best benefit Liverpool even if that denies his captain the opportunity to play in his favoured central role.
Gerrard has been employed principally on the right side of midfield this term, although he was asked to fill in on the left at Chelsea on Sunday. That has prompted fears that the 26-year-old's talents are being marginalised. But Benítez, who has watched Steve McClaren make similar demands on the player with England, is adamant he can flourish on the flank, just as Zinedine Zidane and Ronaldhino have excelled in similar positions.

Article continues

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Indeed, Benítez believes the central midfield partnership of Xabi Alonso and Mohamed Sissoko will serve to liberate Gerrard. "How many years has Steve played here in the Liverpool first team? Eight? And which was his best season? Last year, when he scored 23 goals from the right-hand side," said the Spaniard. "He's a central midfielder, and I promise you I'd like to play him in the middle, but I cannot now. You need to find balance and it's better for the team to play him where he is.
"He's not a winger, but he's not playing as a winger. Sometimes you have to say: 'I know that is your position, but if you play here maybe you can be as good as in the middle.' Analyse Zidane. He played on the left and drifted inside. Ronaldinho, the best player in the world and a player who wants to play as a second striker or behind the forwards, is playing on the left.

"Given the understanding and qualities of Momo and Xabi, that partnership gives my other players - and Stevie in particular - more freedom. The key is to give him a role. If I told him to get to the byline and cross with his left foot, it would be a mistake. But if I tell him to run inside and attack the defence, it works. He had three chances against Chelsea doing exactly that."

Gerrard has yet to open his scoring account for his club this season after his most prolific campaign last year but, having spoken to Benítez, he remains content to play the role his manager feels best benefits the side. "He said very clearly that, if it is good for the team, there is no problem," added Benítez. "He would like to play in the middle for sure, but he knows he is the captain and must set an example. Is it a risk for me? If the risk is that he might score 23 goals again, then I will accept that risk.

"Steve is a very good player, and has the quality and talent to play in any position. And to play there well. He played in the Champions League final at right-back. Now we have Jermaine Pennant, a winger we had spent two years looking for, and two midfielders - Xabi and Momo - between whom the balance is good. So where do you put Stevie? On the left, or as a second striker. Then people would ask why aren't we playing Peter Crouch, Dirk Kuyt, Robbie Fowler or Craig Bellamy."

The inability of that quartet to conjure enough goals so far has anchored Liverpool in 15th place before tonight's Premiership visit of Newcastle. Liverpool have sent more shots off target - 40 - than any other Premiership team this season, despite playing a game fewer than most, with Crouch likely to earn a recall tonight as they attempt to score after 315 barren minutes. Kuyt and Bellamy, against his former club, will compete for the second berth, though the manager's willingness to chop and change his line-ups has merely added to the sense of imbalance.

by **5 stars** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:39 pm

Over the last couple weeks there has been a lot of talk about Gerrard's position in the team. There has been a lot of talk of weather or not Gerrard should be played in a central role. I decided to look at the possible partnerships if he was to play in a central role.

He would either partner Alonso or Sissoko, both partnerships have their fair share of problems. The Gerrard/Sissoko partnership is one option, the problem is Sissoko is not a natural defensive midfielder. He tends to play in front of Alonso, stopping attacks before they happen and regularly winning the ball back.

Gerrard would naturally want to play futher up the pitch, so you would have two central midfielders who would be more efficient playing in more of a advanced positions. The other alternative is a partnership with Alonso. The problem is, Alonso is more of a with-draw playmaker, similar to Pirlo. He is to good a player (technically) to be used as holding midfielder.

A partnership of Gerrard/Alonso would present similar problems to what the Gerrard/Lampard partnership for England did. Basically they wouldn't compliment each others natural game, they would rather hamper or restrict. It wouldn't work.

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