Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:45 pm

So NEWCASTLE had a good result at Boolton then after playing in Europe ? And for the record Arsenal and Man U each got a point at Leicster this season. I mean come on lads, i was THERE and we were poor and Leicster OUTFOUGHT us in the tackle. I know you want GH out and I can't disagree but lets not use EVERYTHING as a reason to have a go at Houlier hey ?

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:03 am

So NEWCASTLE had a good result at Boolton then after playing in Europe ? And for the record Arsenal and Man U each got a point at Leicster this season. I mean come on lads, i was THERE and we were poor and Leicster OUTFOUGHT us in the tackle. I know you want GH out and I can't disagree but lets not use EVERYTHING as a reason to have a go at Houlier hey ?

The voice of sanity and reason. You made me smile

by **Dalglish** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:55 am

Thanks man , sometimes a little perspective can go a long way. I'm as disappointed as most in here with the form this season and I have to watch most of it !!!!

Its a FORUM not a "Lets see how vicious and personal I can get about the manager and players i dont like"

by **jerrygoal** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:19 am

well, if pool has been playing like milan prior to that, it's a valid excuse. the point is, even if pool has months of holidays prior to this match, we still may not beat leicester. get the point?

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:31 pm

Dalglish wrote:And for the record Arsenal and Man U each got a point at Leicster this season.

and manure lost away to Wolves, but they're still 16 points ahead of us. You can compare our results with other teams all you like, the fact remains we're 16 points adrift of manure because we haven't achieved the same consistency of results.

The reason Houllier is slated at every opportunity is because the man should go or be sacked. We are fed up with excuses and poor performances. The stat I come up with about P55 W21 etc was in a paper on Saturday ffs! The man is not going anywhere, time to cut our losses

by **big al** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:48 pm

I think Stu and Dalglish are probably too close to the action and as result are caught up in the emotion of the club. I know that there are many season ticket holders who want Houllier out. But many regular fans are happy with the preformance. Now I don'y mean to offend anyone but eirther way that can skew the true picture. For example buying a season ticket and travelling to all away games is a huge investment of both money, emotion and faith. Many fans are so caught up in the season they cannot detach. They are the club, just as much as the players and as aresult they will need to wait to the end of the season before they can reflect on the overall campaign. So perhaps bad mouthing Stu and Dalglish is unfair. I would argue with Houllier supporters though that many season ticket Houlders have detached themselves from the team, they can reflect and look objectively at the preformances. In many games this season I don't think that Liverpool HAVE PREFORMED THAT BADLY, however the facts and the figures tell a different tale. You need to combine what youve watched with the results to get the overall picture. That picture is in my opinion bloody awful. The football on the field is'nt that bad, but History and success never judge you on bad luck or poor refereeing your judge as we all are on whta we acheive. The team and the manager are acheiving very little. Those who invest so much Like Stu and Dalglish will have a long Hot summer (after Euro 2004) to examine the process and realise that there are in the end very little outcomes. Its a bit like making a pot of soup, Some people know instinctively its going to taste cr#p, some who are making it have to wait to the end to realise it tastes cr#p.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:52 pm

I reserve optimism for when there is room for it. The results, the performances and Houllier's excuses leave little room for optimism

Yet I still believe we are a big club and a new manager could and should put us right back up there where we belong. Houllier has had five years, a sh1tload of money and gained a few trophies. Time to move on, before all we have to look forward to is the past

by **JBG** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:24 pm

Maybe all this club has left is its past, Owzat?

by **Woollyback** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:26 pm

Jesus there's some doom and gloom being banded about on this forum today! I don't think we're in terminal decline, just a rough period which could be ended with the appointment of a new manager with a fresh approach. OK, it's not going to provide overnight success but I don't think we're as f##ked up as people sometimes think

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:31 pm

Jesus there's some doom and gloom being banded about on this forum today! I don't think we're in terminal decline, just a rough period which could be ended with the appointment of a new manager with a fresh approach. OK, it's not going to provide overnight success but I don't think we're as f##ked up as people sometimes think

I agree but the answers are to what you're saying are different.

Al, the fact is mate i'm not stupid and i am objective. This season hasn't been good enough. Circumstances have hindered us. Anyone who things we wouldn't be at least 10 points better off having a NORMAL run of injuries is ignoring facts. We were missing half a team for half the season and it was all at once. Which means our squad players are all playing at the same time which weakens the side.

Its not an excuse, its a fact.

Last season was also poor and that was totally down to managerial mistakes but everyone is allowed a mistake. Houllier has done a good job, the previous years winning cups and establishing us as a good side once more. He made goos signings this summer with the future in his brain. Young players with class. This shows vision. Next summer with more good signings we'll be ALOT stronger and i will put my house and my car on it we will finish well closer to the champions next season and we will again be seen as serious contenders.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:19 pm

stu_the_red wrote:Anyone who things we wouldn't be at least 10 points better off having a NORMAL run of injuries is ignoring facts. We were missing half a team for half the season and it was all at once. Which means our squad players are all playing at the same time which weakens the side.

Its not an excuse, its a fact.

It has been a factor, but blown out of all proportion by Kermit. Our form in the last 8 games has been patchy (13 points from a possible 24) and we have had a lot of player back since the start of that run

It is a myth manuFACTured by Kermit and his followers. IF we were missing half a team for half a season, how come so many players have managed appearances in well over half the number of games?

Just looking at our a possible first choice XI (where the replacement is not far off the first choice I've gone with the player who has played most eg Heskey over Baros, Dudek over Kirkland)

Appearances

Dudek 22/30
Carragher 14/30
Hyypia 30/30
Henchoz 14/30
Finnan 18/30
Kewell 28/30
Hamann 17/30
Gerrard 26/30
Murphy 25/30
Owen 21/30
Heskey 27/30

So Dudek, Hyypia, Kewell, Gerrard, Murphy, Owen and Heskey have been available for over 66% of the games. That is 7 out of the first XI. Henchoz has been left out of a number of games because Kermit prefers Biscan. Between them those players have 242 appearances (73.3% of appearances that 11 players could have made in 30 games)

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:12 pm

yeah well the transfer window was open in january and houllier claimed he didn't need to but anyone because all his top players were returning form injury. well since then we haven't exactly set the world on fire have we?

by **Scottbot** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:37 pm

Stu paints a very good defence of Houllier and when i read it, for just a moment, i think he has a point. But then gameday arrives and another shocking performance with the excuses that follow convince me we will NEVER win the title with GH as our manager. Sure, i believe things would improve, they would have to! but another 5 years would not be long enough. I have simply lost all belief in Houllier as Liverpool manager.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:46 pm

winning trophies just papers over the cracks which will tell you that we are NOWHERE near winning the league. that is what matters the most.

by **Dalglish** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:07 pm

Message for Big Al and Supersub the moderator....... I dont Believe or see opposition to my opinion as bad mouthing to be honest. You pay your money (or in the case of this foum no money whatsover) and you make your point. I'm neither intimidated or annoyed by comments people choose to make about me . And for the record I believe that GH should leave at the end of this season which will come as a surprise to some in here. I simply dont use this forum to send vicious and abusive insults to a man whose dream has died (GH). I went to all 3 finals in 2001 and I dont recall people people being so anti GH then . For the further record I wasn't kissing his ***** either. Its a question of balnce. GH was not as GOOD as many thought he was in 2001 but conversley he is not as BAD as people seem to conveniently think he is now . I support Liverpool Footbal Club ...........NOT managers , players or boards. We will come again but not with this current manager, i wish him well, his dream may be over but he nearly died trying and for that alone i think a little restraint and respect is fitting...Walk on

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