The_Rock wrote:Redrider wrote:Liverpool FC is huge name in Soccer, around the World. We have suffered in 'name' terms by transfering Owen, who's name was synonymous with LFC, but we still have the kudos, we just need to un-earth a new World Star.
No player is bigger than liverpool....surely you knew that.
John Barnes' Granny wrote:If you judge "big" on the following lines:
1. History: both clubs have a great history but Arsenal's pales in comparison to ours. How many leagues, how many European cups, how many UEFA cups, how many League Cups? In those terms Liverpool are far ahead, and it would take Arsenal 10-12 years of total dominance (while we completely drifted away) to catch up.
2. Stadium: we have a bigger stadium, although that said, Arsenal will be the envy of Europe when they complete the Emirates stadium.
3. Support: we have a bigger home gate and a greater world wide following. Arsenal will eventually surpass us in home gates, though, when they eventually move to the Emirates stadium.
4. Finances: Arsenal are ahead, and pulling further away, but they aren't as far ahead as you would think. Only two years ago we were ahead of them money wise, and if we were to improve on the pitch, Liverpool would probably close the gap. However, in the long term, we need to keep pace in marketing and build a new stadium.
We are clearly the bigger club, and just because Arsenal have done so well in recent years doesn't mean they are bigger. Of course, they are a more attractive club at present, but all that could change in a year if Arsenal struggled and we won the league.
Some fans and pundits talk nonsense: there is a talk of Chelsea being a bigger club than Liverpool. 18 months ago they faced bankruptcy and probably would have followed Leeds into Division One. Ok, Abramovich and Mourinho have suddenly made them a very big name, but really they are only a flavour of the month, and in terms of history, they aren't even as big as Spurs. Ok, if they win 17 Leagues and 4 European cups in the next 20 years then they might start challenging us in pure success and history, but how likely is that?
The_Rock wrote:Its all gonna change. Maybe not this season. Maybe even not the next. But it is gonna change. Lets put things in perspective.
Scums are popular because of their sucess in the 90s and david beckham. They don't have beckham anymore. And their success is getting more & more limited.
Chelsea - They are currently competing with the big boys because of roman. One man controls the destiny of the club. Safe isn't it
Arsenal - Freak. Just one word to describe arsenal's sucess. Who would have thought Arsene Wenger would turn up as good as this when arsenal signed him ? And look at all the players wenger bought on the cheap (including their reserves). 1 word....freak. Most likely wenger will go to real next season...so the fate of arsenal
John Barnes' Granny wrote:If you judge "big" on the following lines:
1. History: both clubs have a great history but Arsenal's pales in comparison to ours. How many leagues, how many European cups, how many UEFA cups, how many League Cups? In those terms Liverpool are far ahead, and it would take Arsenal 10-12 years of total dominance (while we completely drifted away) to catch up.
2. Stadium: we have a bigger stadium, although that said, Arsenal will be the envy of Europe when they complete the Emirates stadium.
3. Support: we have a bigger home gate and a greater world wide following. Arsenal will eventually surpass us in home gates, though, when they eventually move to the Emirates stadium.
4. Finances: Arsenal are ahead, and pulling further away, but they aren't as far ahead as you would think. Only two years ago we were ahead of them money wise, and if we were to improve on the pitch, Liverpool would probably close the gap. However, in the long term, we need to keep pace in marketing and build a new stadium.
We are clearly the bigger club, and just because Arsenal have done so well in recent years doesn't mean they are bigger. Of course, they are a more attractive club at present, but all that could change in a year if Arsenal struggled and we won the league.
Some fans and pundits talk nonsense: there is a talk of Chelsea being a bigger club than Liverpool. 18 months ago they faced bankruptcy and probably would have followed Leeds into Division One. Ok, Abramovich and Mourinho have suddenly made them a very big name, but really they are only a flavour of the month, and in terms of history, they aren't even as big as Spurs. Ok, if they win 17 Leagues and 4 European cups in the next 20 years then they might start challenging us in pure success and history, but how likely is that?
spud wrote:I would be interested to understand whether you consider Arsenal FC a "bigger" club than Liverpool FC.
(I know the term "bigger" needs some definition, but go with it for now)
In recent years Arsenal have been more successful, but overall Liverpool have won more.
Anfield is also bigger than Highbury providing more opportunity for gate receipts, although it might cost a few bob more to get into Arsenal?
The reason I ask is because I don't consider Arsenal a bigger club, although I recognise that recent successes would have provided some more revenue.
So how, can they afford £18M for Reyes and £350M for a new stadium?
How, can they pay top wages to Campbell (after the Bosman) and how can they compete favourably in the transfer market?
Is it all down to Wengers ability to sell Anelka, Overmars, Petit and make big profits and sign the likes of Toure, Lauren and Vierra for a snip?
I can't be, there's something more fundamental.........the Board and the Chief Exec?
Why are we losing money and talking of ground share?
Am I the only person who's peed off?
I've said before that a "fish rots from its head". We all blame GH for all that wasted money and bad players. Why was it allowed? And what kind of contract did GH manage to negotiate to get a £10M pay out for his backroom staff?
(Not meaning to be negative, but it smacks of bad management from the top)
We're still relying on the goodwill of Mr Moores (which has been ever present) whilst others are progressing on a more commerical basis.
Agreed. However, current achievements and future uplook is more important than reminiscing past glories. If that's the case then Uruguay is a "bigger" soccer nation than England by nature of their wins in World Cup 1930 & 1950.In recent years Arsenal have been more successful, but overall Liverpool have won more.
Wenger realize quickly that gate receipts is an impt source of revenue and that Arsenal has been punching below their weight for many years. Hence they are moving to a bigger stadium. Why Barce is so strong financially? Their 98 000 capacity stadium? Definitely a reason.Anfield is also bigger than Highbury providing more opportunity for gate receipts, although it might cost a few bob more to get into Arsenal?
They are in Cl and top 2 of the league every yr since 1998, all those cash bonuses from winning the league, gate receipts and live telecasts will add up. I can't remember the exact sum but the money they generate fr the above stuff is almost double that of Liverpool.So how, can they afford £18M for Reyes and £350M for a new stadium? How, can they pay top wages to Campbell (after the Bosman) and how can they compete favourably in the transfer market?
In addition, Wenger did excellent bargain for Henry, Pires, Ljunberg, Gilberto Silva (who costs less than Salif Daio). One of the main reason why they are "bigger" now. Astute management.Is it all down to Wengers ability to sell Anelka, Overmars, Petit and make big profits and sign the likes of Toure, Lauren and Vierra for a snip?
From what I gather, our business model is still 80s type. A major reshuffle is needed (although that is very unlikely to happen)We're still relying on the goodwill of Mr Moores (which has been ever present) whilst others are progressing on a more commerical basis.
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