Liverpool FC Forum

[JBG]

If you judge "big" on the following lines:

1. History: both clubs have a great history but Arsenal's pales in comparison to ours. How many leagues, how many European cups, how many UEFA cups, how many League Cups? In those terms Liverpool are far ahead, and it would take Arsenal 10-12 years of total dominance (while we completely drifted away) to catch up.

2. Stadium: we have a bigger stadium, although that said, Arsenal will be the envy of Europe when they complete the Emirates stadium.

3. Support: we have a bigger home gate and a greater world wide following. Arsenal will eventually surpass us in home gates, though, when they eventually move to the Emirates stadium.

4. Finances: Arsenal are ahead, and pulling further away, but they aren't as far ahead as you would think. Only two years ago we were ahead of them money wise, and if we were to improve on the pitch, Liverpool would probably close the gap. However, in the long term, we need to keep pace in marketing and build a new stadium.

We are clearly the bigger club, and just because Arsenal have done so well in recent years doesn't mean they are bigger. Of course, they are a more attractive club at present, but all that could change in a year if Arsenal struggled and we won the league.

Some fans and pundits talk nonsense: there is a talk of Chelsea being a bigger club than Liverpool. 18 months ago they faced bankruptcy and probably would have followed Leeds into Division One. Ok, Abramovich and Mourinho have suddenly made them a very big name, but really they are only a flavour of the month, and in terms of history, they aren't even as big as Spurs. Ok, if they win 17 Leagues and 4 European cups in the next 20 years then they might start challenging us in pure success and history, but how likely is that?

[Redrider]

Liverpool FC is huge name in Soccer, around the World. We have suffered in 'name' terms by transfering Owen, who's name was synonymous with LFC, but we still have the kudos, we just need to un-earth a new World Star.

No player is bigger than liverpool....surely you knew that.

Quite right Rock, LFC will be still up there when MO has long retired to his Welsh Castle.
I was just commenting on perceptions from around the world, where you talk to people in the Far East and the US and they immediately say Liverpool and Micheal Owen, a bit like 'fish and chips.'  Its the cult of personality !!

For Woolyback, I purposely used the word Soccer, because the Americans, recognise the term Football as their Rugby style game. As the game grows in popularity over there, they will by the very nature of their buying power, have convinced the rest of the world to call the game soccer.
Your right though it sounds like somthing out of ''Roy of the Rovers'' - ''I say old chap, I am just off to the soccer match, have a cup of tea ready for me when I get back home ''     

[crazyhorse]

If you judge "big" on the following lines:

1. History: both clubs have a great history but Arsenal's pales in comparison to ours. How many leagues, how many European cups, how many UEFA cups, how many League Cups? In those terms Liverpool are far ahead, and it would take Arsenal 10-12 years of total dominance (while we completely drifted away) to catch up.

2. Stadium: we have a bigger stadium, although that said, Arsenal will be the envy of Europe when they complete the Emirates stadium.

3. Support: we have a bigger home gate and a greater world wide following. Arsenal will eventually surpass us in home gates, though, when they eventually move to the Emirates stadium.

4. Finances: Arsenal are ahead, and pulling further away, but they aren't as far ahead as you would think. Only two years ago we were ahead of them money wise, and if we were to improve on the pitch, Liverpool would probably close the gap. However, in the long term, we need to keep pace in marketing and build a new stadium.

We are clearly the bigger club, and just because Arsenal have done so well in recent years doesn't mean they are bigger. Of course, they are a more attractive club at present, but all that could change in a year if Arsenal struggled and we won the league.

Some fans and pundits talk nonsense: there is a talk of Chelsea being a bigger club than Liverpool. 18 months ago they faced bankruptcy and probably would have followed Leeds into Division One. Ok, Abramovich and Mourinho have suddenly made them a very big name, but really they are only a flavour of the month, and in terms of history, they aren't even as big as Spurs. Ok, if they win 17 Leagues and 4 European cups in the next 20 years then they might start challenging us in pure success and history, but how likely is that?

Ditto..

Sums it up in a nutshell.

[Fowler_E7]

Its all gonna change. Maybe not this season. Maybe even not the next. But it is gonna change. Lets put things in perspective.

Scums are popular because of their sucess in the 90s and david beckham. They don't have beckham anymore. And their success is getting more & more limited.

Chelsea - They are currently competing with the big boys because of roman. One man controls the destiny of the club. Safe isn't it 

Arsenal - Freak. Just one word to describe arsenal's sucess. Who would have thought Arsene Wenger would turn up as  good as this when arsenal signed him ? And look at all the players wenger bought on the cheap (including their reserves). 1 word....freak. Most likely wenger will go to real next season...so the fate of arsenal 

first of all if man u are famous are succesful because what they have acheived in the 90's, what exactly are we known for? oh yeah thats right PAST SUCCESS, Liverpool FC is still a huge club but this decreases every year that we dont win a major honour.

You call arsenals success a freak? thats absolute rubbish, if Arsenals success is a freak then everyones else's success is aswell, they have an excellent manager, who is very unlikely to move to real madrid.

[Fowler_E7]

If you judge "big" on the following lines:

1. History: both clubs have a great history but Arsenal's pales in comparison to ours. How many leagues, how many European cups, how many UEFA cups, how many League Cups? In those terms Liverpool are far ahead, and it would take Arsenal 10-12 years of total dominance (while we completely drifted away) to catch up.

2. Stadium: we have a bigger stadium, although that said, Arsenal will be the envy of Europe when they complete the Emirates stadium.

3. Support: we have a bigger home gate and a greater world wide following. Arsenal will eventually surpass us in home gates, though, when they eventually move to the Emirates stadium.

4. Finances: Arsenal are ahead, and pulling further away, but they aren't as far ahead as you would think. Only two years ago we were ahead of them money wise, and if we were to improve on the pitch, Liverpool would probably close the gap. However, in the long term, we need to keep pace in marketing and build a new stadium.

We are clearly the bigger club, and just because Arsenal have done so well in recent years doesn't mean they are bigger. Of course, they are a more attractive club at present, but all that could change in a year if Arsenal struggled and we won the league.

Some fans and pundits talk nonsense: there is a talk of Chelsea being a bigger club than Liverpool. 18 months ago they faced bankruptcy and probably would have followed Leeds into Division One. Ok, Abramovich and Mourinho have suddenly made them a very big name, but really they are only a flavour of the month, and in terms of history, they aren't even as big as Spurs. Ok, if they win 17 Leagues and 4 European cups in the next 20 years then they might start challenging us in pure success and history, but how likely is that?

true Liverpool are the biggest club, BUT we are not getting any bigger and our great name is based on success 15+ years ago. If we want to stay ahead of the likes of arsenal then we must start challenging on the field, otherwise we will be considered a fading power.

[Jaffaohyeah]

Easy to answer this one ! Arsenal are a better team than us right now;but we are the bigger club by far !

[kenco]

I would be interested to understand whether you consider Arsenal FC a "bigger" club than Liverpool FC.

(I know the term "bigger" needs some definition, but go with it for now)

In recent years Arsenal have been more successful, but overall Liverpool have won more.

Anfield is also bigger than Highbury providing more opportunity for gate receipts, although it might cost a few bob more to get into Arsenal?

The reason I ask is because I don't consider Arsenal a bigger club, although I recognise that recent successes would have provided some more revenue.

So how, can they afford £18M for Reyes and £350M for a new stadium?

How, can they pay top wages to Campbell (after the Bosman) and how can they compete favourably in the transfer market?

Is it all down to Wengers ability to sell Anelka, Overmars, Petit and make big profits and sign the likes of Toure, Lauren and Vierra for a snip?

I can't be, there's something more fundamental.........the Board and the Chief Exec?

Why are we losing money and talking of ground share?

Am I the only person who's peed off?

I've said before that a "fish rots from its head".  We all blame GH for all that wasted money and bad players.  Why was it allowed?  And what kind of contract did GH manage to negotiate to get a £10M pay out for his backroom staff?

(Not meaning to be negative, but it smacks of bad management from the top)

We're still relying on the goodwill of Mr Moores (which has been ever present) whilst others are progressing on a more commerical basis.

HISTORY. YOU NO MARK.what are you doing on a l.f.c. forum,  asking a question like that for.you are a complete tit.    

[polygemus]

FFS statements like "We are the best" , or "No way, we are bigger than Arsenal" does not contribute to the discussion.
Might as well not post.

In recent years Arsenal have been more successful, but overall Liverpool have won more.

Agreed. However, current achievements and future uplook is more important than reminiscing past glories. If that's the case then Uruguay is a "bigger" soccer nation than England by nature of their wins in World Cup 1930 & 1950.

Anfield is also bigger than Highbury providing more opportunity for gate receipts, although it might cost a few bob more to get into Arsenal?

Wenger realize quickly that gate receipts is an impt source of revenue and that Arsenal has been punching below their weight for many years. Hence they are moving to a bigger stadium. Why Barce is so strong financially? Their 98 000 capacity stadium? Definitely a reason.

So how, can they afford £18M for Reyes and £350M for a new stadium? How, can they pay top wages to Campbell (after the Bosman) and how can they compete favourably in the transfer market?

They are in Cl and top 2 of the league every yr since 1998, all those cash bonuses from winning the league, gate receipts and live telecasts will add up. I can't remember the exact sum but the money they generate fr the above stuff is almost double that of Liverpool.

Is it all down to Wengers ability to sell Anelka, Overmars, Petit and make big profits and sign the likes of Toure, Lauren and Vierra for a snip?

In addition, Wenger did excellent bargain for Henry, Pires, Ljunberg, Gilberto Silva (who costs less than Salif Daio). One of the main reason why they are "bigger" now. Astute management.
Also the reason why Charlton is enjoying tremendous success given their meagre financial ability -- Alan Curbishley.

We're still relying on the goodwill of Mr Moores (which has been ever present) whilst others are progressing on a more commerical basis.

From what I gather, our business model is still 80s type. A major reshuffle is needed (although that is very unlikely to happen)

[The_Rock]

True. Our business model is so 80s. We are so popular, but have we cashed in a lot on merchandising ? Liverpool can easily open hundreds of official shops in asia, but have it happened ?

Rick Perry sucks as a CEO.

[The Canadian Red Army]

the way i see it
it starts from a source
everything is created from a source
how the universe is created it came from one big explosion
we have had a source of downfall and all you can say is GH but who hired him, who has done the books for the past so many years. who has hired GH. I believe Liverpool is a bigger team, but over the past so many years, arsenal has created a source to build around, a stepping stone, the foundation. The way i see it RB is doing the best he can from where he is right now, we will improve and grow, but our problems will see be their. The way i see it right now we dont need strikers we dont need a center back or a midfielder. What we need is a first stepping stone, a foundation, Without this we will not get to be champs again. RB is an amazing coach, but he is only manager, he can only do so much, without a solid foundation, our building will just colapse. This is starting to happen as I see it. The Huge losses of money this is all from a source NOT from GH, but from our foundation. We need to rebuild a complete new foundation for us to compete with Chelsea or Arsenal. WE have a better team, it is just that they have a better source than we do.

[Redrider]

David Moores and Rick Parry, see LFC as a family club, they are very cautious about expansion into areas where they feel uncomfortable. They are not happy the idea of bringing in dynamic management with ideas that might extend outside their areas of knowledge. Thus we have been slow to capitalise on our heritage and we have been left behind in our transfer negotiation skills.
I think there was also a certain level of entrenchment wen't on after the tragic Heysel deaths, I think as a club we decided to keep our image quiet for a few years, while the dust settled.

[who the hell is diarra]

L I V... E R P....  double O L .. Liverpool FC

[XSD]

If you look at fan base worldwide Liverpool is by far the bigger. Who supports Arsenal outside the south of England

The French?

[Redrider]

The French what ?  -    Knickers !!!     

[who the hell is diarra]

They do provide good Support