Brendan Rodgers thread (signs extended contract)

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Stu the Red » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:26 pm

damjan193 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:08 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:42 pm wrote:
redno7 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:13 pm wrote:not sure I agree.   your running at the defender whose backing off, your into the area, you don't fancy your chances of getting past him so you flick the ball up right at his trailing arm... PENALTY!

not exactly fair?


Mate, theres probably about ten players in the world who are good enough to do that and they're probably the ones who would fancy there chances of going past someone. If someone goes to block a ball with a hand, for me thats a bad reaction.

What about you're looking to cross a ball and it hits a defenders arm drops next to him and he clears it, if your cross is successful your centre forward is five yards out with an open goal? (I've had that happen).

For me it should be black an white, deliberate should only come in on deciding whether its a booking or sending off etc.

I've also given away a penalty for a trailing arm... I didn't mean to block the ball... but my arm was away from my body... I know its not deliberate... thats not fair by the current rules.

What if someone shoots 5 yards away from you and the ball hits your arm while you're, for example, protecting your face (like Joe Allen) or your arm is right next to your body where it should be, in it's natural position?

You can't cut off your arms mate. Sometimes it's just not the player's fault. If he's not doing it deliberately or if his arm is in a natural position and there's no time for the player to react and move the arm away, you just can't call a penalty on that.

But things like these should be more strict if it's outside your own penalty area. In my opinion, if you play with your hands like Zapata did last season (AC Milan vs Barcelona I think) or like Suarez did in the FA Cup (a goal was scored in both cases), it should be called a handball, even though it's neither deliberate nor your hands are away from your body or in a unnatural position. It shouldn't be called if it's in your own penalty box, but it should be called if it contributes to scoring a goal.


If you're protecting your face then its blatent hand ball as far as I'm concerned, you can't get a more deliberate movement. Put your head down and head it rather than bringing your hands up to your face.

If your arms are beside your side then its a different matter, i do think if you get an "unfair advantage" from the ball hitting A HAND (not an arm) and your arms are there it should still be a foul against.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:13 pm

Handball schmandball! Who gives a flying fu'ck?
I can think of many dubious goals scored by players throughout the years.
It was a goal, we won, end of!
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Postby laza » Wed Oct 02, 2013 1:49 am

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:46 pm wrote:we were due a bit of luck at that place, not only for the beachball incident but for a few others as well



Agreed its also a good sign that team is on the up when you start getting the rub of green more often then not.
Good teams make their own luck
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:42 am

A fruitless conversation really, the rules aren't going to change anytime soon. The reality is that ball to hand scenario's are not typically flagged because there is no intent. The grey area lies with the referee to decide whether intent was present or not.

That's the way it has always been and will always stay. There is no perfect solution.
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Postby redno7 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:03 am

Sturridge tried to head it so there was no intent to handball it, he intended to head it.
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:41 am

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:42 am wrote:A fruitless conversation really, the rules aren't going to change anytime soon. The reality is that ball to hand scenario's are not typically flagged because there is no intent. The grey area lies with the referee to decide whether intent was present or not.

That's the way it has always been and will always stay. There is no perfect solution.


Why get involved in a part of the discussion you think is pointless? The thread developed slightly as conversations do in real life... If you don't want to get involved in that part of the thread... simply comment on the stuff you're interested in rather than preaching to people who've drifted slightly off topic.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:43 pm

StuYesThatStu » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:
SouthCoastShankly » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:42 am wrote:A fruitless conversation really, the rules aren't going to change anytime soon. The reality is that ball to hand scenario's are not typically flagged because there is no intent. The grey area lies with the referee to decide whether intent was present or not.

That's the way it has always been and will always stay. There is no perfect solution.


Why get involved in a part of the discussion you think is pointless? The thread developed slightly as conversations do in real life... If you don't want to get involved in that part of the thread... simply comment on the stuff you're interested in rather than preaching to people who've drifted slightly off topic.

Not sure where you read pointless?

I said fruitless, meaning that despite our opinions either way, I can't see much changing.

Dry your eyes mate. Blimey.
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Postby Stu the Red » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:51 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:43 pm wrote:
StuYesThatStu » Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:41 pm wrote:
SouthCoastShankly » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:42 am wrote:A fruitless conversation really, the rules aren't going to change anytime soon. The reality is that ball to hand scenario's are not typically flagged because there is no intent. The grey area lies with the referee to decide whether intent was present or not.

That's the way it has always been and will always stay. There is no perfect solution.


Why get involved in a part of the discussion you think is pointless? The thread developed slightly as conversations do in real life... If you don't want to get involved in that part of the thread... simply comment on the stuff you're interested in rather than preaching to people who've drifted slightly off topic.

Not sure where you read pointless?

I said fruitless, meaning that despite our opinions either way, I can't see much changing.

Dry your eyes mate. Blimey.


:laugh: My bad... Alcohol had kicked in by that point. :D
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:00 pm

Blurry vision...

Hate that
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Postby Red Focus » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:08 pm

Please Brendan, get the team to play well for the 2nd 45 minutes from now on. If we just sit back and defend in the 2nd half against the stronger teams like Arsenal, City, Spurs, Chelsea, you'll be crucified, period.
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Postby ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:00 pm

Red Focus » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:08 pm wrote:Please Brendan, get the team to play well for the 2nd 45 minutes from now on. If we just sit back and defend in the 2nd half against the stronger teams like Arsenal, City, Spurs, Chelsea, you'll be crucified, period.


i think it`s a fitness issue, we just dont seem to have the same energy in our second half performances that we do in the first.
we are a million miles away from that barcelona-esque high intensity pressing team that rodgers talked about turning us into when he first arrived, if anything we just drop off and defend the edge of our area.
then again i dont think that is necessarily a negative, it just demonstrates just how rodgers has become less idealistic and more pragmatic, lately he hasnt tried to shoehorn players into a system that doesnt suit them, early on last season we conceded a few goals by trying to press high up the pitch all the time but now rodgers is finding a system to get the best out of the players at his disposal.
we are second in the league on goals scored so he`s doing something right.
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Postby JC_81 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:45 pm

Early in the season I thought the second half displays could be a fitness issue, especially as our players were saying that all the pre-season work was with a ball rather than lots of running to build up stamina.  However we are 7 league games in now, our players are all match fit now.  I can't imagine our staff not looking at the fitness as a possible problem before now and tweaking the sessions to build it up.

I'm starting to think it's just the way our team has evolved over the past 6 months or so.  We're more comfortable conceding more possession and hitting teams on the break with the pace we've got up top. Plus our usual midfield two of Lucas and Gerrard aren't really the pass and move tiki taka types - one is a destroyer and one has a fondness for a long pass.  The fact that neither of those two seem to have the gas to press for 90 minutes could be part of the reason, but the team fitness as a whole not being good enough is more debatable.  Rodgers ditched tiki taka half way through last season when it was obvious we didn't have the players for it, we still don't.  It does show he is tactically versatile and capable of favouring pragmatism over idealism.

The current system is yielding results and our tactics could prove even more effective when we play the so called bigger sides, because they'll have a go at us a bit more than the likes of Crystal Palace at Anfield, leaving more space for our attackers on the break.  With Toure and Sakho I think we'll also be able to absorb pressure a bit better than last season. In the longer term though the central midfield needs addressing in terms of personnel.

It ain't all about possession and control of midfield though, just ask AVB after his side lost 3-0 at home to West Ham after having 61% possession...
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Postby Stu the Red » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:13 pm

JC_81 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:45 pm wrote:
It ain't all about possession and control of midfield though, just ask AVB after his side lost 3-0 at home to West Ham after having 61% possession...


Don't really agree with your point JC... (Jesus Christ?? Are you Jesus Christ? B - b - b bird, bird, bird, bird is the word...??? :D )

Sorry... Family Guy moment... :D

Anyway I think "control" and possession are two different things. You can control a game and only have 40% possession. They are however both very important. All the better sides dominate possession and control on a regular basis. Its not the only way to win a game, but it certainly helps.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:12 am

Equal on points, equal on goal difference and equal in philosophy. There is a reason Arsenal and Liverpool both sit at the top of the Premier League after seven matches, with Arsene Wenger and Brendan Rodgers eschewing control in favour of dynamism and attacking incision.

While Chelsea, Manchester City and Manchester United are all in flux after appointing new managers in the summer, and Tottenham are adapting to life without their best player, it is not necessarily continuity that has helped Arsenal and Liverpool enjoy impressive starts to the season. The managers may be the same, but the message is different - possession is no longer nine-tenths of the law.

It can be seen through the statistical analysis of both sides' performances so far. Arsenal have slipped from the top of the Premier League possession chart in 2012/13, with an average of 58.2% per game, to eighth and an average of 54%. Liverpool, third in Rodgers' first season in charge with an average of 57.2%, are now ninth with an average of 51.7%.

Statistical data only proves so much, but it reinforces what we can see on the pitch as Arsenal attack in spurts and quick transitions, while Liverpool have sought to get themselves in front before tightening up and holding on to the lead. As revered former Arsenal manager Herbert Chapman once said: "The truth is you can attack for too long."


"We try to make it rapid and direct," was Chapman's mantra, and Rodgers has encouraged the same from his Liverpool players. "We're a team that's evolving and starting to understand that side of football; with every attack, you can't score," said the manager before the Reds' victory over Crystal Palace. "Sometimes you have to move the ball, disrupt your opponent's organisation and then really have the eye to make the killer pass and hopefully get the goals from there."

For Liverpool, this aim has predominantly been emodied in blistering first-half performances that have seen them lead at the interval in six of their seven top-flight fixtures. Even in Luis Suarez's absence, the Reds showed great intelligence in the final third to seize their moments to go in front. Daniel Sturridge's first-half strikes in away matches against Aston Villa and Sunderland are two such examples as containment was considered an after-thought.


Arsenal, meanwhile, have demonstrated their counter-attacking ability even more readily, aided by Mesut Ozil's genius. Tottenham, Fulham, Sunderland, Marseille and Swansea were all picked off on the break, but it was against Napoli in the UEFA Champions League that the Gunners really excelled. Two goals courtesy of quick bursts in the opening 15 minutes saw off Rafa Benitez's side, with Ozil's opener underlining the team's unerring confidence in their finely tuned system.


Mathieu Flamini: Midfielder has given Arsenal added steel
Furthermore, in four of the eight matches in which Arsenal have scored two or more goals this season (in all competitions), the Gunners have struck in quick succession to establish an advantage. Goals in the 58th and 62nd minutes defeated Swansea, Ramsey's double in the 67th and 76th minutes ended Sunderland's brief hopes, Napoli were undone in 15 magnificent minutes and Fenerbahce were thrashed at home by strikes in the 51st, 64th and 77th minutes. It's the equivalent of a boxer hammering a jab in the gut before a blow to the jaw.

The idea of control has not been ignored completely, of course, otherwise it would be difficult to profit on a revised attacking approach. Mathieu Flamini's arrival has provided renewed strength to Arsenal's spine and it was interesting to see that the Frenchman was preferred alongside Mikel Arteta for the tough test against Napoli as Jack Wilshere dropped to the bench. "Flamini has given us a balance between attacking and defending," said Wenger. "He is someone who accepts the dark role in the team."

Negotiating the same balance has been at the forefront of Rodgers' thoughts too, particularly in Liverpool's hard-fought victory over Aston Villa in which they were happy to cede possession to a side set up to hit the Reds on the counter. "It was a terrific win for us. I thought first half we had good control of the game and scored an excellent goal," said Rodgers. "Obviously second half, we just needed to defend a bit deeper. Tactically that was the idea. In the first two games Aston Villa have been brilliant on the counter-attack and if you open up too much the spaces then they have players who can hurt you."

Daniel Sturridge and Luis Suarez: Crucial to Liverpool
In terms of Liverpool's ability to hurt opponents, Sturridge and Suarez have continued to form an exciting partnership, seeing off Sunderland with a swift counter-attack to seal all three points.

At Arsenal, Wenger's change of tack has helped to get more out of Olivier Giroud. The striker's best goal last season came in the Gunners' 3-1 win at West Ham, when he dropped deep to spray the ball out to Lukas Podolski on the left and then burst to the front post to slot home a neat finish. Wenger has built on this aspect of Giroud's game as Ozil and the revitalised Ramsey are now encouraged to run past the centre-forward instead of the frontman being the focal point of the attack. Ozil's goal against Napoli exemplified this idea and Giroud's improved displays have reduced concerns over the failure to sign Suarez in the summer.

Wenger and Rodgers' distinct game plans have helped Arsenal and Liverpool to flourish so far and, while both sides still have room for improvement, their balance between control and attack has yielded great efficiency. For Liverpool the aim now is to maintain their performance level over 90 minutes, while Arsenal can look forward to being further strengthened in attack when Santi Cazorla returns following the international break. It bodes for an exciting encounter when the two teams meet on November 2.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ct-balance
Champions of England 2020.

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Postby Kenny Kan » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:13 am

Equal on points, equal on goal difference and equal in philosophy. There is a reason Arsenal and Liverpool both sit at the top of the Premier League after seven matches, with Arsene Wenger and Brendan Rodgers eschewing control in favour of dynamism and attacking incision.

While Chelsea, Manchester City and Manchester United are all in flux after appointing new managers in the summer, and Tottenham are adapting to life without their best player, it is not necessarily continuity that has helped Arsenal and Liverpool enjoy impressive starts to the season. The managers may be the same, but the message is different - possession is no longer nine-tenths of the law.

It can be seen through the statistical analysis of both sides' performances so far. Arsenal have slipped from the top of the Premier League possession chart in 2012/13, with an average of 58.2% per game, to eighth and an average of 54%. Liverpool, third in Rodgers' first season in charge with an average of 57.2%, are now ninth with an average of 51.7%.

Statistical data only proves so much, but it reinforces what we can see on the pitch as Arsenal attack in spurts and quick transitions, while Liverpool have sought to get themselves in front before tightening up and holding on to the lead. As revered former Arsenal manager Herbert Chapman once said: "The truth is you can attack for too long."


"We try to make it rapid and direct," was Chapman's mantra, and Rodgers has encouraged the same from his Liverpool players. "We're a team that's evolving and starting to understand that side of football; with every attack, you can't score," said the manager before the Reds' victory over Crystal Palace. "Sometimes you have to move the ball, disrupt your opponent's organisation and then really have the eye to make the killer pass and hopefully get the goals from there."

For Liverpool, this aim has predominantly been emodied in blistering first-half performances that have seen them lead at the interval in six of their seven top-flight fixtures. Even in Luis Suarez's absence, the Reds showed great intelligence in the final third to seize their moments to go in front. Daniel Sturridge's first-half strikes in away matches against Aston Villa and Sunderland are two such examples as containment was considered an after-thought.


Arsenal, meanwhile, have demonstrated their counter-attacking ability even more readily, aided by Mesut Ozil's genius. Tottenham, Fulham, Sunderland, Marseille and Swansea were all picked off on the break, but it was against Napoli in the UEFA Champions League that the Gunners really excelled. Two goals courtesy of quick bursts in the opening 15 minutes saw off Rafa Benitez's side, with Ozil's opener underlining the team's unerring confidence in their finely tuned system.


Mathieu Flamini: Midfielder has given Arsenal added steel
Furthermore, in four of the eight matches in which Arsenal have scored two or more goals this season (in all competitions), the Gunners have struck in quick succession to establish an advantage. Goals in the 58th and 62nd minutes defeated Swansea, Ramsey's double in the 67th and 76th minutes ended Sunderland's brief hopes, Napoli were undone in 15 magnificent minutes and Fenerbahce were thrashed at home by strikes in the 51st, 64th and 77th minutes. It's the equivalent of a boxer hammering a jab in the gut before a blow to the jaw.

The idea of control has not been ignored completely, of course, otherwise it would be difficult to profit on a revised attacking approach. Mathieu Flamini's arrival has provided renewed strength to Arsenal's spine and it was interesting to see that the Frenchman was preferred alongside Mikel Arteta for the tough test against Napoli as Jack Wilshere dropped to the bench. "Flamini has given us a balance between attacking and defending," said Wenger. "He is someone who accepts the dark role in the team."

Negotiating the same balance has been at the forefront of Rodgers' thoughts too, particularly in Liverpool's hard-fought victory over Aston Villa in which they were happy to cede possession to a side set up to hit the Reds on the counter. "It was a terrific win for us. I thought first half we had good control of the game and scored an excellent goal," said Rodgers. "Obviously second half, we just needed to defend a bit deeper. Tactically that was the idea. In the first two games Aston Villa have been brilliant on the counter-attack and if you open up too much the spaces then they have players who can hurt you."

Daniel Sturridge and Luis Suarez: Crucial to Liverpool
In terms of Liverpool's ability to hurt opponents, Sturridge and Suarez have continued to form an exciting partnership, seeing off Sunderland with a swift counter-attack to seal all three points.

At Arsenal, Wenger's change of tack has helped to get more out of Olivier Giroud. The striker's best goal last season came in the Gunners' 3-1 win at West Ham, when he dropped deep to spray the ball out to Lukas Podolski on the left and then burst to the front post to slot home a neat finish. Wenger has built on this aspect of Giroud's game as Ozil and the revitalised Ramsey are now encouraged to run past the centre-forward instead of the frontman being the focal point of the attack. Ozil's goal against Napoli exemplified this idea and Giroud's improved displays have reduced concerns over the failure to sign Suarez in the summer.

Wenger and Rodgers' distinct game plans have helped Arsenal and Liverpool to flourish so far and, while both sides still have room for improvement, their balance between control and attack has yielded great efficiency. For Liverpool the aim now is to maintain their performance level over 90 minutes, while Arsenal can look forward to being further strengthened in attack when Santi Cazorla returns following the international break. It bodes for an exciting encounter when the two teams meet on November 2.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news ... ct-balance
Champions of England 2020.

YNWA
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