Liverpool FC Forum

StuYesThatStu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:19 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:14 pm wrote:Yakka, I think you're overreacting a bit because of yesterday's game. Gerrard obviously isn't what he used to be and doesn't have the legs to play week in week out for 90 minutes, but to not include him in our best 11 while you include Henderson and Lucas is ridiculous.

Like Benny said, it might be OK to sub off Gerrard at some point of the game because he doesn't have the energy to endure the whole game. After the first half, he can't chase players and he doesn't track back. What's also worrying is that when he actually does chase players, they usually beat him for pace. Last night we saw that he can't even keep the ball or pass it properly once he gets tired. To say it simply, he becomes a liability after some time.

But to say that he doesn't belong in our first 11 is ludicrous, especially considering the rest of our midfielders. Currently, we have no one else to make sure that we have a flowing game. He knows when to keep it simple and when to hit it long, and he knows how to do it as well. Lucas knows how to make a good pass every now and then but passing isn't really his main trait, while Henderson's decision making is horrible and he never takes responsibility.

Unfortunately, we have no one else capable of doing what Gerrard does. Until that changes we can't put him out of the starting 11.

I still think that we should go for Xabi Alonso in the winter. Won't be expensive and I believe he will come here if we're serious enough. I think he might change a lot of things here.

It would be nice for us to be linked with players of that quality still. Don't forget though Xabi is no child himself. Alonso and Lallana would be the stuff dreams are made of wet stuff infact... 

But seriously, Mata and Alonso are two players that the club should be linked with, even if they were to reject us, it would show ambition and intent, which frankly is alot more than we've shown since Rodgers took charge. (*disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm saying Coutinho was a bad signing, just that it wasn't ambitious as such)

I believe that we have no chance of landing someone like Mata, but signing Xabi is very realistic because of his history with us. He might not fit the owners' philosophy of signing young players, but I think that we really need a player like him so they might make an exception. He won't be expensive either, because he'll have only half a year left on his contract.

Hasn't Xabi once again this summer state he won't be returning to the prem and wants to sign a new contract ( which I thought he already had )

Xabi is on well over 150 grand a week in Spain - we won't pay him anywhere near that.

Every summer we hear the Xabi coming back but it's never going to happen lets be realistic.

Gerrard ain't as old and decrepit as some think. I think he's suffering long term tiredness. He's not had a real break in years. He's also got his history of injuries. He gives so much more than anyone else. But at 33 he needs a break. The reason he's not been subbed this season is because we're usually hanging on by a thread in the second half, and it becomes a conundrum. How do you take off your captain when the game's in the balance? What effect would that have on the players already struggling, to see their captain, the most influential player coming off? What would the opposition think? The fans? A tightly balanced game could be tipped the wrong way.

If we did the job in the first half and knew how to maintain then build on it in the second, Gerrard would get a much needed rest.

StuYesThatStu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:24 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:34 pm wrote:gerrard is giving the ball away more than anyone and as for winning more tackles he turned his back on a feigned shot against swansea!
look steven gerrard is the best player i`ve ever seen in a red shirt and i went to my first match in the early to mid 70`s, i rate him higher than players who won title after title and played in 3 or 4 european cup finals but no one, and i mean no one, can escape the affects of father time.
even you must be able to see that he hasnt got 90 minutes in his legs anymore, when players get to the stage where they arent able to complete a full game then they are deffo in the twilight of their careers.

Last thing I'll say, watch his performances improve and stamina "increase" when Suarez comes back into the side.

luis will take a bit of pressure off the midfield for sure because the opposition will be wary of over committing while he`s about. but as it stands our midfield is getting it`s @rse handed to it by the likes of shelvey and brittain and wanyama and co.
the midfield is letting us down badly and gerrard is playing worse than anyone, something needs to change and quick because the 2 teams most people think we are in direct competition with for that 4th spot (spurs and arsenal) are the 2 form sides in the country right now.

StuYesThatStu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:20 pm wrote:Yeah, and our team over the ninety minutes will give more of the ball to the opposition than any Liverpool team in History.

Sadly Gerrard is giving the ball away more than anyone else in the team recently. Even at his best he was never the most disciplined of players, but he played further up the pitch, had more energy,  and had players capable of cleaning up behind him.
He might be one of the best players ever to play for this club, but even Gerrard gets old and he hasn't played in his best position for a while now. He should still start the majority of games, but it should be possible to give him a rest sometimes, and it should definitely be possible to sub him when he is playing badly. I'd also like to see him further up the pitch again, perhaps in a free role on the right flank if he still has the legs for it.

Benny The Noon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:53 pm wrote:Hasn't Xabi once again this summer state he won't be returning to the prem and wants to sign a new contract ( which I thought he already had )

Xabi is on well over 150 grand a week in Spain - we won't pay him anywhere near that.

Every summer we hear the Xabi coming back but it's never going to happen lets be realistic.

Xabi is on 80k pounds a week, look it up.

He also said that he would love to come back and play for us one day. Since he hasn't sing a new contract, I believe it's worth a try. Although he isn't as physical and energetic as we need, he will still improve us massively.

damjan193 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:48 pm wrote:

StuYesThatStu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:19 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:14 pm wrote:Yakka, I think you're overreacting a bit because of yesterday's game. Gerrard obviously isn't what he used to be and doesn't have the legs to play week in week out for 90 minutes, but to not include him in our best 11 while you include Henderson and Lucas is ridiculous.

Like Benny said, it might be OK to sub off Gerrard at some point of the game because he doesn't have the energy to endure the whole game. After the first half, he can't chase players and he doesn't track back. What's also worrying is that when he actually does chase players, they usually beat him for pace. Last night we saw that he can't even keep the ball or pass it properly once he gets tired. To say it simply, he becomes a liability after some time.

But to say that he doesn't belong in our first 11 is ludicrous, especially considering the rest of our midfielders. Currently, we have no one else to make sure that we have a flowing game. He knows when to keep it simple and when to hit it long, and he knows how to do it as well. Lucas knows how to make a good pass every now and then but passing isn't really his main trait, while Henderson's decision making is horrible and he never takes responsibility.

Unfortunately, we have no one else capable of doing what Gerrard does. Until that changes we can't put him out of the starting 11.

I still think that we should go for Xabi Alonso in the winter. Won't be expensive and I believe he will come here if we're serious enough. I think he might change a lot of things here.

It would be nice for us to be linked with players of that quality still. Don't forget though Xabi is no child himself. Alonso and Lallana would be the stuff dreams are made of wet stuff infact... 

But seriously, Mata and Alonso are two players that the club should be linked with, even if they were to reject us, it would show ambition and intent, which frankly is alot more than we've shown since Rodgers took charge. (*disclaimer, that doesn't mean I'm saying Coutinho was a bad signing, just that it wasn't ambitious as such)

I believe that we have no chance of landing someone like Mata, but signing Xabi is very realistic because of his history with us. He might not fit the owners' philosophy of signing young players, but I think that we really need a player like him so they might make an exception. He won't be expensive either, because he'll have only half a year left on his contract.

I don't actually believe we'd get Mata.... but to not test the water (the age fits for the owners or whatever) is complete madness. Maybe if we even tried god forbid praising him or leaking something... Just the ambition would be a good thing.

damjan193 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:03 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:53 pm wrote:Hasn't Xabi once again this summer state he won't be returning to the prem and wants to sign a new contract ( which I thought he already had )

Xabi is on well over 150 grand a week in Spain - we won't pay him anywhere near that.

Every summer we hear the Xabi coming back but it's never going to happen lets be realistic.

Xabi is on 80k pounds a week, look it up.

He also said that he would love to come back and play for us one day. Since he hasn't sing a new contract, I believe it's worth a try. Although he isn't as physical and energetic as we need, he will still improve us massively.

Just read up on his current status and it looks like he is fecked - had a groin injury which had surgery that hasn't gone well and he is struggling - it's why there is a hold up with his contract.

Benny The Noon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:07 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:03 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:53 pm wrote:Hasn't Xabi once again this summer state he won't be returning to the prem and wants to sign a new contract ( which I thought he already had )

Xabi is on well over 150 grand a week in Spain - we won't pay him anywhere near that.

Every summer we hear the Xabi coming back but it's never going to happen lets be realistic.

Xabi is on 80k pounds a week, look it up.

He also said that he would love to come back and play for us one day. Since he hasn't sing a new contract, I believe it's worth a try. Although he isn't as physical and energetic as we need, he will still improve us massively.

Just read up on his current status and it looks like he is fecked - had a groin injury which had surgery that hasn't gone well and he is struggling - it's why there is a hold up with his contract.

i watched madrid the other week (bale`s debut) and i`m sure the commentator said alonso was out with a broken foot

Xabi Alonso’s contract extension could be in jeopardy

Real Madrid midfielder Xabi Alonso is reportedly closer to leave the club at the end of the season. The 31-year-old’s contract expires in June 2014 and his groin problems are making Los Blancos doubt over his renewal.

Alonso had surgery this summer to recover from the injury, but the recovery is not going as expected. The Basque still has pain and his reincorporation does not look to be around the corner.

Los Merengues had signed Asier Illarramendi from Real Sociedad this summer so Alonso could teach him and make him his replacement for the future. But the good performance of the youngster and Alonso’s physical problems might anticipate the relief.

Many clubs have showed an interest in signing Xabi Alonso last summer, including Liverpool, Chelsea, Juventus and Fiorentina. Juve has been reported to be willing to make the higher bid if Alonso doesn’t sign a renewal with Real, but the midfielder’s agent has denied  contacts with the Italians.

However, Alonso has always shown his love for British football and a return to the Premier League also  appears on the cards, with Arsenal also showing interest.

Doeboy » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:22 pm wrote:

eds » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:00 pm wrote:

Doeboy » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:56 pm wrote:We have played well this season and fully deserved our victories over Stoke, Villa and Manure.

Explain yourself lad.

Did Stoke, Villa and Manure do enough to win the games? I don't think so. Yes Stoke could have grabbed a draw at the end but we were better than them. Against Villa we were the better team. Yes they came back into it 2nd half but not like they were creating chance after chance. Same goes or the Manure, not like they had loads of chances and we defended very well.

This league is difficult and the half decent teams will not make it easy for the top teams and will nick points of them. Man City have already found that by losing to Cardiff and struggling to a draw against Stoke. Chelsea also had to dig hard against Villa to beat them and struggled last week against the bitters. Villa did a job on Arsenal to. The likes of Swansea and Southampton are good teams and will nick points of the top teams, make no mistake.

You will find that almost everyone will over-whelming disagree with you. We were lucky not to draw all three games you mentioned. If you think that we deserved to win based on first half performances and ignore how s**t we were in the 2nd half then I really don't know what else I need to say. With the Manure game, are you kidding me, did you watch the 2nd half? I agree they didn't play that well but they had more than enough chances to at least take a point. We defended well I wouldn't say it was "very well".

As for your points on smaller teams taking points off the bigger clubs, yes that happens from time to time. But what we, as a club have a REAL issue with is how we are playing at the moment. This has nothing to do with smaller clubs beating us from time to time, if we play similar to the way we did against Southampton we are in for a very long season and Rodgers will need to demand for some creative players in the January window. You can rest assured that once the top 4 sides hit their straps they won't be dropping as many points against the minnows as what we will.

The race is underway and the early leaders drop from first to fifth at the first bend as the serious runners and riders start to hit the rail.
The phoney part of the season is over, reality bites and Brendans early good fortune runs out. sadly he has been exposed all too quickly on the back of one game against a workmanlike but mediocre Southampton side.
Team selection with four centre backs was to say the least unusual, preparation in understanding the opposition strength and tactics was non-existent, we all knew that Southampton wre going to arrive with a blocking pressing game but the team were not set up to expose its weakness down the flanks. The tactical substitutions were haphazard and achieved nothing. Overall a managerial and tactical disaster.
But more seriously what has also  been exposed is a continuing weakness in being able to use the owners money wisely in the transfer market. Last year, Allen and Borini were quckly exposed as sub-standard and they are still with us, supplemented now with Asapas and the other Spaniard who has made such a significant impact i can't even remember his name! All in all £30m worth of talent making no impact and with not enough ability to step in and cover for players missing through injury or suspension.
In fairness Sakho and Mingolet look as though they may make the grade, but both are going to require time to acclimatise and gel, Illori we have not seen yet, Moses is only on loan and appears more flash than productive. Thank goodness for the experience of Toure, which is going to be sorely tested.
Looking ahead i see little improvement on last season, we are again destined for a mid-table miasma, with the only glint of light on the horizon being the eventual owner enforced departure of Brendan.

Redrider » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:39 am wrote:The race is underway and the early leaders drop from first to fifth at the first bend as the serious runners and riders start to hit the rail.
The phoney part of the season is over, reality bites and Brendans early good fortune runs out. sadly he has been exposed all too quickly on the back of one game against a workmanlike but mediocre Southampton side.
Team selection with four centre backs was to say the least unusual, preparation in understanding the opposition strength and tactics was non-existent, we all knew that Southampton wre going to arrive with a blocking pressing game but the team were not set up to expose its weakness down the flanks. The tactical substitutions were haphazard and achieved nothing. Overall a managerial and tactical disaster.
But more seriously what has also  been exposed is a continuing weakness in being able to use the owners money wisely in the transfer market. Last year, Allen and Borini were quckly exposed as sub-standard and they are still with us, supplemented now with Asapas and the other Spaniard who has made such a significant impact i can't even remember his name! All in all £30m worth of talent making no impact and with not enough ability to step in and cover for players missing through injury or suspension.
In fairness Sakho and Mingolet look as though they may make the grade, but both are going to require time to acclimatise and gel, Illori we have not seen yet, Moses is only on loan and appears more flash than productive. Thank goodness for the experience of Toure, which is going to be sorely tested.
Looking ahead i see little improvement on last season, we are again destined for a mid-table miasma, with the only glint of light on the horizon being the eventual owner enforced departure of Brendan.

I'm afraid I agree all too well on your assessment.

I'd hold off with the gun yet. Hopefully BR will learn quickly. The only way I'd get shot of him so early is if it becomes clear he's a dunce with no room to grow.

Redrider » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:39 am wrote:The race is underway and the early leaders drop from first to fifth at the first bend as the serious runners and riders start to hit the rail.
The phoney part of the season is over, reality bites and Brendans early good fortune runs out. sadly he has been exposed all too quickly on the back of one game against a workmanlike but mediocre Southampton side.
Team selection with four centre backs was to say the least unusual, preparation in understanding the opposition strength and tactics was non-existent, we all knew that Southampton wre going to arrive with a blocking pressing game but the team were not set up to expose its weakness down the flanks. The tactical substitutions were haphazard and achieved nothing. Overall a managerial and tactical disaster.
But more seriously what has also  been exposed is a continuing weakness in being able to use the owners money wisely in the transfer market. Last year, Allen and Borini were quckly exposed as sub-standard and they are still with us, supplemented now with Asapas and the other Spaniard who has made such a significant impact i can't even remember his name! All in all £30m worth of talent making no impact and with not enough ability to step in and cover for players missing through injury or suspension.
In fairness Sakho and Mingolet look as though they may make the grade, but both are going to require time to acclimatise and gel, Illori we have not seen yet, Moses is only on loan and appears more flash than productive. Thank goodness for the experience of Toure, which is going to be sorely tested.
Looking ahead i see little improvement on last season, we are again destined for a mid-table miasma, with the only glint of light on the horizon being the eventual owner enforced departure of Brendan.

Bit harsh but not a bad post.

Sahko and Mignolet aren't convincing enough for me after the games I've seen. Granted, Mignolet is replacing one of the best goal keepers we've had in a long time, but still not convinced he's the man to do it. Certainly not playing this style.

Redrider » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:39 am wrote:The race is underway and the early leaders drop from first to fifth at the first bend as the serious runners and riders start to hit the rail.
The phoney part of the season is over, reality bites and Brendans early good fortune runs out. sadly he has been exposed all too quickly on the back of one game against a workmanlike but mediocre Southampton side.
Team selection with four centre backs was to say the least unusual, preparation in understanding the opposition strength and tactics was non-existent, we all knew that Southampton wre going to arrive with a blocking pressing game but the team were not set up to expose its weakness down the flanks. The tactical substitutions were haphazard and achieved nothing. Overall a managerial and tactical disaster.
But more seriously what has also  been exposed is a continuing weakness in being able to use the owners money wisely in the transfer market. Last year, Allen and Borini were quckly exposed as sub-standard and they are still with us, supplemented now with Asapas and the other Spaniard who has made such a significant impact i can't even remember his name! All in all £30m worth of talent making no impact and with not enough ability to step in and cover for players missing through injury or suspension.
In fairness Sakho and Mingolet look as though they may make the grade, but both are going to require time to acclimatise and gel, Illori we have not seen yet, Moses is only on loan and appears more flash than productive. Thank goodness for the experience of Toure, which is going to be sorely tested.
Looking ahead i see little improvement on last season, we are again destined for a mid-table miasma, with the only glint of light on the horizon being the eventual owner enforced departure of Brendan.

I agree with the tone of your post but not with some of the words you use.  "Overall a managerial and tactical disaster." would suggest that a catastrophe has occured. It hasnt. We were beaten 1-0 from a corner by a decent team.
Obviously its frustrating (Ive just watched the match again) but lets not get carried away with ourselves. We are going through a tough time with injuries and suspensions and once again we have been left in a vulnerable position. I have my doubts about Aspas and Alberto, but the only way for them to gain experience, and for us to make a judgement is to give them games. There are many negatives in our play at the moment, but there are many positives as well. I just hope we dont get into a situation where the supporters start getting on the players and the managers back and it ends up affecting our results. Maybe we shouldnt have gone top and raised expectations? Because of our drop in the table we have moved into a situation most of us didnt want, where Suarez will become the focus and therefore the saviour of the rest of our season. Or not.
The pressures on more than ever...