Liverpool FC Forum

Give it a break guys. Preseason is preseason. It means nothing and adding to its insignificance is a look at the opposition we were up against. If we had strengthened the starting 11 and lost every single preseason game I'd still be more optimistic than I am now. It's not all bad but at the same time it's nothing to get too excited about. The progress we made towards the end of the season in terms of tactics and balance remains the major source of promise for me. Having said that, losing Carra and Reina and replacing them with Mignolet and Toure imo adds to our troubles at the back both in terms of quality and consistency. Further up, I think the only position we needed to improve was the right wing role that Downing occupies. We haven't brought anyone in to replace Downing but what we have done is improve the options we have on the bench which is positive, despite it being less than what we perhaps would have wanted.

The bottom line for me is this, I think we have a core of players in the starting 11 who have been at the club a considerable amount of time and are all good enough to play for a side in the top4. The likes of Agger, Johnson, Lucas, Gerrard combined with newer names like Enrique, Coutinho, Suarez and Sturridge can get that 4th spot if the manager can get them to perform to a certain standard both individually and as a collective. So far, we've seen glimpses from Rodgers but we haven't seen enough. A case could be made either way, and we might still see a new signing or two come in and provide that missing link we seem to be struggling to find, but it's all very debatable at present and there's no need to be slagging someone off for presenting an opposing point of view regardless of how negative it is.

Well, it looks like the 4 guys we signed at the beginning of July was all and no more signings to further improve the squad between now and the close of the window. Now it's time to ask Johnny Henry, "What are you smoking over there in Boston?" Liverpool are a club that is not contented to just remain at mid table. Liverpool are a club to win the title and trophies every season. What has become of Liverpool now under their ownership? He's not investing heavily in the squad to finish in top 4. With the squad we have at the moment, I won't be surprised if we get another draw with Stoke next week, for sure they will come and park a bus again in front of their goal, esp. if they can grab an early goal.

I'm hoping its a smokescreen and BR meant what he said 4 weeks ago when he said the squad fillers were bought and it was onto the first 11 to improve now.

would have liked to have seen papadopolous come in but apart from that i think we have a good enough squad to have a right go at 4th.
for me sturridge and coutinho looked as good as any strike partnership in the country at the tail end of last season and add one of the best players in the world in luis to that and i think we have one of the most exciting attacks in europe.
we sometimes forget that other teams have problems too, uniteds fans are on moyes back already and with the money city have spent comes massive expectation, if they have a bad result the press will be all over them, spurs fans are complaining that they dont have a defence and if luis stays here there will be boo`s and bin bags at the emirates again before we get to chrimbo. everton have brought in defeulo (sp?) but as good as he is the prem is a million miles away from the spanish second division in terms of pace and physicality and they may even lose their two best players to united yet.

Benny The Noon » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:53 pm wrote:

Homebooby » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:44 pm wrote:How people judge progress etc is up to them - for me it's position in the table - we moved forward one place, it was a step forward but even from Jan there were clear areas where we will struggle and I can't see them been sorted yet. I'm also worried that he has gone back to a midfield three that struggled last season because it has no balance. So Im not that optimistic about the forth coming season - and I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to think that way.

I've been trying to avoid conflict with you Benny as it does seem like every post from you whether fair or not is triggering reactions and I think we're a little oversensitive on here now. Let me just put it to you that you must surely concede that considering the challenges that have been faced, be it the Suarez situation, or the preseason warm ups, we genuinely seem to be handling things more positively than even back in the days of Rafa. I think that it what most on here are clinging to that there are signs of improvement. I think you get a lot of negativity at the moment as you almost find it impossible to acknowledge any positives in what you are posting.

Let's be honest, if the pre-season had been terrible like it has been the last few seasons you would definitely be pointing to that as signs that no progress was made. Surely the fact that you can't hang your hat on that is a good thing and something positive? Imho, with you poo-pooing the whole pre-season as irrelevant undermines your opinions and statements which in most parts are not that far away from what I think most people are feeling as well. Noone is getting excited yet, time will tell etc etc.

Benny, you've been harping on about Stoke in almost every post over the past week, so much so that it is worth a response.

Mark Hughes manages Stoke now, not Tony Pullis. Stoke won't be playing like they did before. So what is your 'benchmark' EPL team to beat now?






It's pre season though mate - it's good for fitness but in terms of competition it's about Championship level - we haven't been tested at all at the back and I believe it's created false confidence - if we beat Stoke then I will feel a bit more positive about the season but until then nothing has changed from my feelings from last season and about the squad and management.[/quote]

Simari » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:43 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:53 pm wrote:

Homebooby » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:44 pm wrote:How people judge progress etc is up to them - for me it's position in the table - we moved forward one place, it was a step forward but even from Jan there were clear areas where we will struggle and I can't see them been sorted yet. I'm also worried that he has gone back to a midfield three that struggled last season because it has no balance. So Im not that optimistic about the forth coming season - and I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to think that way.

I've been trying to avoid conflict with you Benny as it does seem like every post from you whether fair or not is triggering reactions and I think we're a little oversensitive on here now. Let me just put it to you that you must surely concede that considering the challenges that have been faced, be it the Suarez situation, or the preseason warm ups, we genuinely seem to be handling things more positively than even back in the days of Rafa. I think that it what most on here are clinging to that there are signs of improvement. I think you get a lot of negativity at the moment as you almost find it impossible to acknowledge any positives in what you are posting.

Let's be honest, if the pre-season had been terrible like it has been the last few seasons you would definitely be pointing to that as signs that no progress was made. Surely the fact that you can't hang your hat on that is a good thing and something positive? Imho, with you poo-pooing the whole pre-season as irrelevant undermines your opinions and statements which in most parts are not that far away from what I think most people are feeling as well. Noone is getting excited yet, time will tell etc etc.

It's pre season though mate - it's good for fitness but in terms of competition it's about Championship level - we haven't been tested at all at the back and I believe it's created false confidence - if we beat Stoke then I will feel a bit more positive about the season but until then nothing has changed from my feelings from last season and about the squad and management.

[/quote]



Benny, you've been harping on about Stoke in almost every post over the past week, so much so that it is worth a response.

Mark Hughes manages Stoke now, not Tony Pullis. Stoke won't be playing like they did before. So what is your 'benchmark' EPL team to beat now?

?? Did you not see Mark Hughes Blackburn in action ? You couldn't a more physical team in the prem. Hughes being appointed manager isn't going to change their style because its set up for the players they have

Gosh...mutiny on board!!! It sounded like we are fighting relegation with 2 matches to go...feckin'ell guys give it a break already and let's see how BR is going to shape the team. 6 matches into the season then we can sort of judge where we at, not fu-cking now...as a fan you lots are a disgrace!!! 

Santa go back 4 years and 4th place wasnt good enough. We are now at a time when 4th place would be like winning the league.

LFC1990 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:56 pm wrote:Santa go back 4 years and 4th place wasnt good enough. We are now at a time when 4th place would be like winning the league.

Of course...now go back 25 years and 2nd place would be a disaster...point is we're at this stage now where after years of mismanagement and changes of (wrong) ownership, we found ourself unable to compete with our closest rivals in commercial term and not having an owner who will invest £250M every couple of years so unfortunately we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up.

We all know the 4th place equates to a CL gold mine and to keep our existing players happy and be able to attract new marquee players to join us so of course that should be the first target for us...but when we don't sign a £30~£50M player each summer I keep hearing people questioning the owner's commitment, and how we are doomed. And even when before the season starts, I keep hearing all the  gloomy stories about how we will fu-cked up this season..."fans" nowadays 

FSG's vision of buying kids and building for the future is now looking like a flawed strategy. It doesn't work in today's CL era anymore, it may have worked in pre CL times. I agree we're in the rebuilding process but look what's happening? Clubs in CL will come and sign your good players (Suarez and Agger possibly will be going to Barca) and if those kids turn out to be promising, they will also be snapped up by them. So we'll end up being a feeder club for those CL participants while we're rebuilding. It's very obvious now  FSG doesn't have the big funds to rebuild Liverpool and if BR finishes 7th or 8th next season which is likely if we're not going to make anymore quality additions to the squad before the window closes and LS refuses to give 100%(if he does stay), then FSG must go and BR can bring his tiki taka sh.it back to Swansea or to some other mid table club and remain mid table there forever.

To me anything below 6th place finish and less than 70 pts garnered next May is not progress.

Santa » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:

LFC1990 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:56 pm wrote:Santa go back 4 years and 4th place wasnt good enough. We are now at a time when 4th place would be like winning the league.

Of course...now go back 25 years and 2nd place would be a disaster...point is we're at this stage now where after years of mismanagement and changes of (wrong) ownership, we found ourself unable to compete with our closest rivals in commercial term and not having an owner who will invest £250M every couple of years so unfortunately we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up.

We all know the 4th place equates to a CL gold mine and to keep our existing players happy and be able to attract new marquee players to join us so of course that should be the first target for us...but when we don't sign a £30~£50M player each summer I keep hearing people questioning the owner's commitment, and how we are doomed. And even when before the season starts, I keep hearing all the  gloomy stories about how we will fu-cked up this season..."fans" nowadays 

A few years ago it was the same thing being said under Kenny "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't GIVEN the likes of Adam, Henderson, Downing or Carroll a go, they haven't kicked a ball yet!"

The blind faithful thinking we were back to our winning ways with what many knowledgable fans saw as poor signings. At the end of the season when Kenny was dumped the same lemmings that had the blind faith only had one argument left, "Look at these "fans" who are delighted in being right all long, they would rather be right then see their club succed"     

In terms of quality and expectation you could almost replace Adam with Alberto, Downing with Toure and Carroll with Aspas. We don't have the strength to compete for 4th and aren't building a side to compete for 4th either! Every time I hear you lot say the following "we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up" I can't keep thinking of the following classic Simpson's one liner, "Let me get this straight: we're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? Cuckoo!"

It's sad that sheer delusion has now replaced ambition as a club.

It's clear as day we need to bring in quality and we need to bring it in NOW, not next season or the season after. The owners need to sell up, because the true fanbase have had enough of mediocrity and all we are doing is building the solid foundations of a mid-table side.

eds » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:34 am wrote:

Santa » Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:31 pm wrote:

LFC1990 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:56 pm wrote:Santa go back 4 years and 4th place wasnt good enough. We are now at a time when 4th place would be like winning the league.

Of course...now go back 25 years and 2nd place would be a disaster...point is we're at this stage now where after years of mismanagement and changes of (wrong) ownership, we found ourself unable to compete with our closest rivals in commercial term and not having an owner who will invest £250M every couple of years so unfortunately we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up.

We all know the 4th place equates to a CL gold mine and to keep our existing players happy and be able to attract new marquee players to join us so of course that should be the first target for us...but when we don't sign a £30~£50M player each summer I keep hearing people questioning the owner's commitment, and how we are doomed. And even when before the season starts, I keep hearing all the  gloomy stories about how we will fu-cked up this season..."fans" nowadays 

A few years ago it was the same thing being said under Kenny "Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we haven't GIVEN the likes of Adam, Henderson, Downing or Carroll a go, they haven't kicked a ball yet!"

The blind faithful thinking we were back to our winning ways with what many knowledgable fans saw as poor signings. At the end of the season when Kenny was dumped the same lemmings that had the blind faith only had one argument left, "Look at these "fans" who are delighted in being right all long, they would rather be right then see their club succed"     

In terms of quality and expectation you could almost replace Adam with Alberto, Downing with Toure and Carroll with Aspas. We don't have the strength to compete for 4th and aren't building a side to compete for 4th either! Every time I hear you lot say the following "we'll have to take baby steps to a slow climb up" I can't keep thinking of the following classic Simpson's one liner, "Let me get this straight: we're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? Cuckoo!"

It's sad that sheer delusion has now replaced ambition as a club.

It's clear as day we need to bring in quality and we need to bring it in NOW, not next season or the season after. The owners need to sell up, because the true fanbase have had enough of mediocrity and all we are doing is building the solid foundations of a mid-table side.

John Henry also needs to ask himself what is he smoking over there in Boston. The 4 additions we've had so far are not really quality additions. I thought those 4 were just appetizers in this window and now as time passes, it looks like those mostly average players are all we're going to get. All thanks to FSG stinginess and unworthiness. Please GET OUT OF OUR CLUB and sell to someone who is willing to invest heavily.

plonker

redno7 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:01 am wrote:plonker

RedFocus - GET OUT OF OUR CLUB ? I think you will actually find  that it is their club and if FSG's behaviour over the Suarez debacle hasn't convinced you of their commitment then I don't know what will.