Liverpool FC Forum

Fsg are fickle. They proved that last season. I wouldnt bank on them not getting a bit twichy. A loss to qpr is well on the cards arry isnt stupid. Then where does that leave us

How did FSG prove they were fickle last season Raven ?

The new style of play is so radically different that the players are still learning the system, because it's so fluid it's also high risk so the system can brake down we when we get things wrong and players then look worse than they really are. We all know that the the squad is a bit thin in some areas, a bit of backup in some areas and more quality in other areas should make a big difference in our overall performance but it takes time.

I'm not saying that Brendan is beyond criticsm, I think we've spent so much time learning the new style of play that our set pieces are not as good as they perhaps should be.

As reg says it'll take time and it's going to be a rough ride so hold on and stick with it, it'll be worth it.

Basil » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:59 am wrote:How did FSG prove they were fickle last season Raven ?

The new style of play is so radically different that the players are still learning the system, because it's so fluid it's also high risk so the system can brake down we when we get things wrong and players then look worse than they really are. We all know that the the squad is a bit thin in some areas, a bit of backup in some areas and more quality in other areas should make a big difference in our overall performance but it takes time.

I'm not saying that Brendan is beyond criticsm, I think we've spent so much time learning the new style of play that our set pieces are not as good as they perhaps should be.

As reg says it'll take time and it's going to be a rough ride so hold on and stick with it, it'll be worth it.

Erm kenny got to us to two cup finals, and 8th and was fired. Thats progress yet he was still told to take a hike.

By all accounts we are going to finish alot worse off this season.

This new style does not work with the players we have, i think we can all agree on that. What worries me is that he still goes out and plays it. If he wants to play that way then fine do it when we have the players to do it. Comes back down to the no plan B.

This in a nutshell why BR was not ready to take this job. I dont hate the guy i like the way he tries to play but one mid table finish in the league does not a liverpool manager make.

I dont know what the take up was like when FSG where looking last summer, if all the big names turned us down and BR was the best we could get then i guess i will lump it and put up with being crushed by WBA, Villa, and stoke.

BR is at liverpool 5 years to soon IMO hes having to learn on the job which when your at swansea and your only expected to stay up is fine, when your at a struggling gaint like us its not.

He got his tactics and team selection wrong yesterday.
Jones won everything in the air, I would have gone with 3 at the back.
Suso was never the right selection to play against them and Shelvey is a bench player at best.

I still don't understand why Assaidi never gets a chance.

Johnny Boy » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:29 am wrote:He got his tactics and team selection wrong yesterday.
Jones won everything in the air, I would have gone with 3 at the back.
Suso was never the right selection to play against them and Shelvey is a bench player at best.

I still don't understand why Assaidi never gets a chance.

Time and time again we have seen Skrtel-Agger partnership getting dominated by big tall players (Carlton Cole the other day, Fellaini, now Kenwyn Jones), didn't Rodgers realize this? Why didn't he start with Coates, a player who is excellent in the air and wins most of the headers. We will never find some sort of consistency if we keep repeating the same mistakes since August. Rafa Benitez took him 3 games to get Chelsea play the way he wants, even Norwich steadly improved under Houghton. Have we progressed? worst start of the season since the last century and the worst point tally for us in the last 19 games in god knows how many years. Rodgers need to stop being naive with his tactical decisions and try to get the best out of his players.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:22 pm wrote:in the 3 points for a win era (which started in the early 80`s) this is the lowest points total we`ve ever had at the halfway point of the season.
even worse than hodgson and souness etc.

Sad, so sad and all we do is blame the owners

Reg » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:11 am wrote:Lads, stop squirming.... Rome wasn't built in a day, it takes time. Those complaining about Sahin, Borrini etc.. bear in mind less than 50% of Rafa's first 15 buys didn't work out and only when you establish the pattern of play and start to make progress in the league do your buys become more focused with a more successful hit rate.

It aint going to happen in 6 months lads, sit back and read a book.

Hi Reg!

We all agree that there should be time and patience, and it's premature to start calling for the manager's head! I still support him, but ask yourself this, have we progressed from last season? are we showing some type of improvement? No we aren't, there is no improvement, we aren't getting any results, the manager is showing his naive side by employing wrong tactics on the field. The team is a top 6 team, players like Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Enrique, Johnson, Reina, Sterling, Lucas and Suarez would get into any top 6 side in the league, so why are we not getting any results? If we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again we aren't going anywhere.

blame the owners..blame the managers ?

no blame the players, they looked unfit, some should not even be playing for the club and should be sold.
dont matter what you say about Rodgers he is getting us to have most of the ball and getting us to have so many chances at getting a goal...the problem is that the players are just not good enough. if you gave any of the top 6 teams in the prem the amount of chances we get they would have taken 95% of them.

ok yes i do feel they way he sets the team out can be wrong, i would like to see change to 4 4 2 if we going 1-0 down but how can he, yes he tries it but with only one striker its bloody hard.

our back 5 (yes i am talking about Reina) needs big changes.

we will just have to wait and see what happens in this window, looking at twitter there are a few players that could be moving out of the club as others come in, we could be the club to spend the most in this window.

we live in hope

Lakes10, the players look like they have got no clue how to play in his system and we really don't have a Plan B

I'm not sure if getting to two cup finals and finishing in the lowest league position for almost 20 years was progress but after sticking with Kenny for 18 months they decided to make a change and appointed a new man with fresh ideas.

This season is now just half way through so we don't yet know where we will finish but the new manager needs time and backing if he is going to make any progress. Anything higher than 8th this season and he's probably doing ok but we can't expect too much in the first season. Hopefully we will improve in the second half of the season, especially with a couple of decent signings in January.

Further additions to the squad in the summer and more time to get used to the new system and we can expect a higher finish next season, perhaps top 6 or higher.

This is the sort of progress that we should expect over the next couple of years, we'll hopefully have some good performances along the way and score some good goals and get some good results but there will also be some bad performances and bad results - that's football, get used to it.

Basil » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:15 am wrote:I'm not sure if getting to two cup finals and finishing in the lowest league position for almost 20 years was progress but after sticking with Kenny for 18 months they decided to make a change and appointed a new man with fresh ideas.

This season is now just half way through so we don't yet know where we will finish but the new manager needs time and backing if he is going to make any progress. Anything higher than 8th this season and he's probably doing ok but we can't expect too much in the first season. Hopefully we will improve in the second half of the season, especially with a couple of decent signings in January.

Further additions to the squad in the summer and more time to get used to the new system and we can expect a higher finish next season, perhaps top 6 or higher.

This is the sort of progress that we should expect over the next couple of years, we'll hopefully have some good performances along the way and score some good goals and get some good results but there will also be some bad performances and bad results - that's football, get used to it.

I hope so, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it, especially after our embarrassing summer transfer window

Not sure that I agree with all this Coates should have started or we should have played 3 at the back stuff. I think Rodgers is of the thinking that it's our opponents who need to worry or change to combat us - not the other way round, I believe in this mantra anyway. Yet, we're still a million miles off of making teams worry about us to change their tactics to suit. In saying that I do believe Rodgers got a number of things wrong yesterday and probably this game is the only one where I can think Rodgers has to take the lions share of the blame. Not because of the Skertel Agger partnership though but how it was implemented or not, as the case maybe in defending against the high ball direct route. FWIW I don't think aerially Agger and Skertel were dominated as badly as many suggest, a lot of good play came from Stoke playing through us as much as aerial balls, our midfield is the sticking point here (and I actually believe this is the crux of the issue with the team as a whole - the lack of balance).

Skertel and Agger along with Lucas and Gerrard should have known beforehand that Jones was going to win his fair share of headers (again I reiterate this wasn't a massive problem but needed addressing anyway by Rodgers and co). Lucas and Gerrard ideally should have been within stones throw away from the knock downs and second balls that Jones was winning. Almost doubling up on him at set-pieces, during open play this would be harder but had we had Lucas or Gerrard sitting deep, scrapping for these second balls, life would have been made easier. However, Stoke's first goal resulted from a Skertel slip - unfortunate. Their second was atroicous defending, school boy stuff from Agger who had let Jones get half a yard on him to head home a feeble header. I can't work out whether we zonal mark or man mark, because if it was zonal Gerrard should have had the call the Jones was running in behind/near him to attack the ball, Agger tried to stay with him but failed. I can't remember much about the 3 goal I was foaming at the mouth by then.

But to cut a long story short Rodgers should have had a gameplan prior to this match in which we would try and deal with Stoke's route one stuff - he clearly didn't. Stoke were also able to play a lot of football and go through us, like West Ham and Diame did the other week - our midfield is our achilles heel, it's gone from a four or five man midfield to, at times a 2 man midfield (especially when opponents counter us) with our wingers tracking back here and there but to no avail most of the time. Teams can quite easily play through us because we don't have the numbers in midfield anymore and even with someone like Shelvey at the tip of the triangle dropping deep we're either to undisciplined or narrow, plus there isn't enough physical presence imo. So retaining/retrieving possession is largely left down to two midfielders, Gerrard (who isn't as mobile as he used to be) and Lucas (who isn't mobile but has a much better tendency to be in the right place at the right time) and Allen when selected, but he does get brushed about a fair bit and is lightweight. There is is issue (a defensive one right there) there for our defensive midfield balance, or lack of.

Going forward, we simply do not have the quality from midfield - be it Shelvey (who imo is a Championship player at best), Henderson (who doesn't have the consistency, belief or bottle to create - a decent squad player), Sahin (who can't buy a game for some reason), or Allen (who's form has dipped) but the Welshman is the one I'd be looking to, to play behind Suarez and in front of Gerrard and Lucas, failing that Suso could be useful in behind Suarez. This is another area where Rodgers imo got it catastrophically wrong yesterday, Shelvey never threatened, supplied or linked midfield to attack, Suarez not for the first time was feeding off scraps because the lack of quality (miss placed passes, and general feck ups going on behind him; namely in the name of the hapless Shelvey, left us void of any threat in the final third whatsoever. Rodgers should have hauled Shelvey off at halt time and either put Allen in there or Suso with Sterling out wide. Both Suso and Allen are much much better on the ball than Shelvey, both have a better range of passing and even vision for a pass and when your playing that kind of football, you don't want a clumsy donkey feeding balls through to your main striker - they've got to be spot on. Both Suso and Allen are more lightweight and perhaps they don't carry the same goal threat as Shelvey but they would have linked up MUCH better and played the passes Shelvely couldn't, as well as exploited the space in front of Stoke's defense.

I think had Rodgers tacically prepared much better for the aerially dominance that Skertel and Agger were in for and shuffled the midfield about, namely removing Shelvey at HT we'd have stood a much better chance. As it was the though, the whole team's passing was wayward and individual performances all round baring Enrique and Suarez were pretty poor, yet had Rodgers made the right changes, dealt in game with Jones and co at the back, we'd have had a fighting chance to get back into the game.

Sorry Brendan but this result is on your shoulders as much as it is the players.

its sad to think that 3-4 seasons ago, we werent talking about making top 4 (its a given). we were talking about making at assault at the title. and we always fall flat on our face but at least there is european football at the highest level to look forward to.

rafa's last year (he is not totally to blame) and G n H's reign let us back. the appointment of roy delayed our revitalization and the arrival of commolli as DOF set us back a few years. i refuse to blame kenny, he has done more for the city and football club than 99% of everyone in liverpool.
beside do you really believe a man who had won everything as player and manager will splurge 35m of a player who has half a season in top flight football? i dont believe it for a second, i mean even a layman can see that this is madness. needless to say a man with years of football experience.
i dont really blame FSG too, if the 100m is spend more prudently we wont be struggling now. imagine a team with ageuro (35m) + silva (20m) + mata (20m), and we were heavily linked with these players, maybe not so much with ageuro .

with rogers we need patience as he is not a "big name" manager. and maybe he has not really found his managerial style yet. i think his jan signing will a watershed one for him, it will determine our season. so far he has shown naivety in his team selection and transfer dealings. i hope for better in jan.

rodgers is too naive, no matter how good a team you are when results dont go well you go back to the basic`s, you make yourself hard to beat and you make sure you work hard and make it difficult for the opposition.
at the moment we are doing the opposite, even though we have had our worst start in a century, spent the first half of the season in the bottom half of the table and have our lowest points total at the halfway stage since 3 points for a win was introduced in the early 80`s we have got to be one of the easiest clubs to play against in the league.
we offer no threat from set pieces or crosses because we are a small side, we are lightweight and not very aggressive so teams know they arent going to end up in a war, our build up is so slow that teams dont have to worry about being caught on the break or out of position, we play with a 3 man midfield which isnt particularly athletic, strong or dynamic so teams know they arent going to be over run in the centre of the park, we over pass at the back giving teams a chance to press us and win back possession high up the pitch, our forward line is small so when the ball is hit long the defenders have an easy task to win the first ball, we dont mix our game up so teams can read us like a book and know exactly what we are going to do.......i could go on and on.
the only reason we carry any sort of threat is that we have an exceptional player in luis suarez, and to be fair to suarez many a star player would have seen their @rses playing in this team and wandered around with a cob on but week in week out suarez`s attitude has been superb, he gives everything for the cause and never stops chasing lost causes.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:16 pm wrote:rodgers is too naive, no matter how good a team you are when results dont go well you go back to the basic`s, you make yourself hard to beat and you make sure you work hard and make it difficult for the opposition.
at the moment we are doing the opposite, even though we have had our worst start in a century, spent the first half of the season in the bottom half of the table and have our lowest points total at the halfway stage since 3 points for a win was introduced in the early 80`s we have got to be one of the easiest clubs to play against in the league.
we offer no threat from set pieces or crosses because we are a small side, we are lightweight and not very aggressive so teams know they arent going to end up in a war, our build up is so slow that teams dont have to worry about being caught on the break or out of position, we play with a 3 man midfield which isnt particularly athletic, strong or dynamic so teams know they arent going to be over run in the centre of the park, we over pass at the back giving teams a chance to press us and win back possession high up the pitch, our forward line is small so when the ball is hit long the defenders have an easy task to win the first ball, we dont mix our game up so teams can read us like a book and know exactly what we are going to do.......i could go on and on.
the only reason we carry any sort of threat is that we have an exceptional player in luis suarez, and to be fair to suarez many a star player would have seen their @rses playing in this team and wandered around with a cob on but week in week out suarez`s attitude has been superb, he gives everything for the cause and never stops chasing lost causes.

Spot on mate

You are also spot on Suarez, he has been superb, the only player who actually cares what's going on, even after the final whistle you can see the sense of dissapointment in him while other players really don't care much. Suarez' work rate is second to none, it's a shame that his teammates don't share the same passion