Liverpool FC Forum

by **kindaconfused** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:54 pm

wee_boi888

Yep I think yer right on that one.

by **Red Macgregor** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:59 pm

A.B. wrote:
I wouldn't be at all surprised, if both Cisse and Baros did not end up by being sold, either In January or August to fund the purchase of Morientes, Mista and a defender. The most likely to stay is Cisse depending on his temprement. Pongolle will replace Baros as the utility forward. You heard it first on Radio Rerider !!

Do you have a fever? Pongolle replace Baros? Cisse won't be sold, I think if anybody will be sold out of the two it will be Baros. Selling Cisse after buying him for 14 million would be bad business.

Think Cisse was a more willing party to link up with Baros

I agree.

Buying Cisse for £14M was bad business.

by **kindaconfused** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:17 pm

Red Macgregor

I can't understand how you can think £14m is too much for a goal scorer who cant score, misses a sitter on the penalty spot and is used in the game to provide crosses to the goalscorer who is Riise (whos a full back).

Its bl**dy amazing to me when others can't see or don't want to see it!

There are even forum members who think the problem is in the defence!

by **Redrider** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm

A.B. wrote:
I wouldn't be at all surprised, if both Cisse and Baros did not end up by being sold, either In January or August to fund the purchase of Morientes, Mista and a defender. The most likely to stay is Cisse depending on his temprement. Pongolle will replace Baros as the utility forward. You heard it first on Radio Rerider !!

Do you have a fever? Pongolle replace Baros? Cisse won't be sold, I think if anybody will be sold out of the two it will be Baros. Selling Cisse after buying him for 14 million would be bad business.

Think Cisse was a more willing party to link up with Baros

I agree.

Hi, AB, funnily enough I have been feeling a bit unseasonally hot today !!
I think I do actually agree with you over Baros, he is the most likely to be sold, principally because I suspect from his Barcelona comments, he is not going to be happy in a support role, playing from the bench or being subbed during games.
Once Rafa has imported another Spanish forward there will be more competition for places and I suspect that Mista or Morientes or whoever, will become the first choice, leaving Baros and Cisse fighting for the second slot.
Cisse, will probably be prefered with his ability to stretch the defence down the wing, but it is disapointing to have paid £14m for a striker who turns out to be a winger who isn't very good at crossing the ball. And yes, another point I agree with, selling Cisse for less than £14m would be bad business, however, I think the fault there is that we overpaid in the first place.
I have a feeling however, that Cisse will become disilusioned with his own form and at playing second fiddle to Rafa's prefered Spaniards and that he may arrange a move via his agent. A move which Rafa may not block in order to obtain more funds to build his 'own team', albeit that we might be lucky to pull £6/7m for Cisse.
So that just leaves Pongolle, and simply he fills the 'Bench Warmer in Chief' slot left by Baros and he didn't look too bad for 10mins against Deportivo.
So all in all, not much disagreement there and thanks for your concern re' my current state of health.

by **A.B.** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:03 pm

So all in all, not much disagreement there and thanks for your concern re' my current state of health

No problem.

I'm willing to wait to see Cisse become a class player. Time needs to be given to the lad, and he needs a goal to get him going. Gudjohnsen needed the same thing and he got it against Blackburn.

If Baros doesn't improve as a team player he will be replaced by Mista or Morientes. Cisse will be kept because selling him would be stupid, he has so much pace and strength.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:09 pm

i think all these comments about Baros are unfair. there were plenty of times when he set people up and was linking up around the box. Finnan's effort the memorable example. of corse there were times when he didnt pass but people are only remembering this as he already has this reputation of not passing. his workrate was excellent, he was guilty of missing chances but so what? given that on a regular basis he will slot them no doubt about it. the nbest in the world misschances all the time. Henry today anyone?

lets just put it in perspective and not judge him cos of his reputation.

by **Redrider** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:26 pm

Jim and AB, What will keep both Baros and Cisse, tied to the club would be our continuing involvement in the Champions League, particularly if Morientes came and was cuptied.
Let's hope we need both men to stay for that reason !!

by **The Canadian Red Army** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:45 pm

Redrider wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised, if both Cisse and Baros did not end up by being sold, either In January or August

its comments like these in the board room that have left us in a horrible state to begin with

by **akumaface** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:12 am

Well, I think only recently that Rafa had kept his starting eleven together and is only now starting to see they are playing as a team. I seen there were improvement already especially with Cisse and Baros. I never saw them pass together much in previous matches but saw plenty today. Although, they both were not able to score but I'm sure the goals will come. Its not as easy to change a player's mind especially wanting a striker not to be selfish at time. They were used to be the one who shoots regarding who is around them. So, I believe they could be an awesome force and they will break out soon. Just give them another 3 to 5 games. I also think part of the reason why our midfielders were able to score more than our forward was the defenders were scared about Cisse and Baros. They would rather have beaten by our Midfielder than to have leaving Cisse and Baros unoccupied. I think this is a good thing because not many team have this much balance in scoring.

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:59 pm

kindaconfused wrote:Good win, but still concerns re forwards (sorry StMichael but you have it round yer ar*e). Cisse drifts to the right when going get tough and then when 2 goals up comes back into the centre.

Poor corners and throw ins considering the possession we struggled to score and against better opposition it will tell.

Not wanting to detract the defence and mid field played well (think Riise is out of position...yeh yeh I know he scored fellas but he didn't look comfortable).

Considering the amount of possession attack is still a problem when we have a £14m who sits on his ****** in the centre spot.

But lets get things into perspective here. For a so called unblossoming partnership between them they have scored 7 goals which isnt a bad return. I mean 24 million pounds worth of Drogba has scored only two goals, and United top scorer until yesterday was Silvestre with two. So when you look at it on the whole we aint doing to bad, not to mention the more widespread portion of the side thats scoring also from outfield play, we are more a team now, under GH in his final seasons we relied on Owen to deliver and we got usually 20 odd goals, but we didnt get goals from elsewhere.

I think these guys just need to be left alone to get on and play, and people need to stop over analysing. I was sitting in front of two lads behind me who lambasted Cisse at every touch, even when he hit the post they couldnt say anything good about them, it p#sses me off, we put up with Heskey for years without any real product yet we are unprepared to give the guy a chance. Similarly Baros who is accused of not looking up for others - so f#cking what? He's dangerous, defences sh#t themselves, we need selfish strikers, yeah he missed a few chances on saturday but on another day he bags a hat-trick, and anyway i can mention a few other players who could pass but opt to go it alone.

Just hope everyone and its not all mind to stop getting on them - i think they will do fine. Thats not to say we dont need to buy another striker because i think we need a target man but i think under the circumstances these two are doing ok.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:19 pm

sensible mike. yes i think people are over-reacting about the strike partnership thing when you weigh it up.

they're 2 good strikers, end of. lets wait and see. like you say, on another day Baros would have had 3.

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:46 pm

Jim, don't gloss over the problem. We have spent a lot of money on a striker, who is still firing blanks and cannot gel with our existing/remaining striker. Unless a dramatic improvement takes place, we are going to lose ground in the Premiership and drop out of the Champions League. Let's hope we win away at Deportivo and/or Monaco and that our forward line pulls together in our 'easy run' over the next few games in the league.
All this talk of give it time, don't criticise, is all very well, in 'never never land', where we all lived happily ever after, we did that with Heskey, Diouf, and Cheyrou etc. but it never did get better. However, I suspect that Rafa lives in the real world and is scouring Spain as we speak for his new strike force.
What remains to be seen is how Baros and Cisse react to the arrival of some new Spanish men and how their skill set's fit with Rafa's selections.

by **jim_morrison_supported_liverpool** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:15 pm

so should van nistelrooy be sold aswell then. he's not doin much is he?
i know we gave the ****** players time aswell but thats just unfortunate. you have to give every player time. if they turn out to be sh*t thats just the way it goes. you cant just get rid of a player after 10-15 games. you may have missed something because a lot of players need this or even longer before they start showin their worth. imagine if all them players would have been sold? Reyes, henry to name a couple.

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:16 pm

whoever says we should cisse now is just an eejit
its early, hes looking good, just needs to score, i know thats his job but he'll do it

by **Redrider** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:54 pm

Jim, If we had time I could agree with you, I would sit back and say don't worry it will all come good later in the season etc. However, we do not have time because we desparately need the revenue from a good run in the Champions League and we must qualify for the CL next season for the same reason.
With respect to the time point, Rafa would be negligent in his duties as a manager if he was not concerned by the lack of goals and more importantly by the obvious disjointed nature of the strike partnership. While he will try and get the best from his existing pairing, he will also have a 'plan B' to improve the situation, which no-doubt involves the arrival of a striker with known ability, probably from Spain.

I am not necessarily advocating the sale of Cisse and/or Baros, I just think that a natural reaction to the arrival of a new main striker, wiil lead to the departure of one or even both. Probably inspired by the player or his agent and then agreed by the club, rather than lead by the club.
Jim, I am not on a one man campaign to slag off and sell Cisse and Baros, I am merely expressing concern with, what is by 'common consent' a current problem for LFC and making a forecast as to how I see the problem resolving itself.
At the end of the day though, I do not think that Cisse and Baros have the right mix of qualities to operate as our strike force for any significant period this season.

Liverpool FC Forum

The match today - And what i think about it

Who is online