Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:14 am

lakes10 wrote:Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup

Torres was OVERPLAYED, injured and burnt out. He was NOT a bad player.

Wash your mouth out with soap Lakes. :laugh:

by **ethanr** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:22 am

Greavesie wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

I'd say the loss of Masch and Torres makes the team significantly different to the one Rafa left behind, the only part that currently holds any resemblance is the defence

And look at what Kenny has been getting out of our defense... Second best in the league and only a few million spent on Enrique.

He's inherited an absolutely garbage midfield bar Gerrard, and look how much better Lucas is used... he's been so much more productive under Kenny, and unfortunately we lost one of our best players for the rest of the season.

He got a team that, with the injury to Gerrard, really had little hope of CL until drastic changes could be made.

by **ethanr** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:29 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll. Meireles is better than Benayoun, many here claim Lucas is better than Mascherano, whil Aquilani contributed zilch.... which leaves Torres....so in your argument its unfair to compare Rafa's team that had Torres, with Kenny's team that has Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

Wow that is a lot of twisting an turning to suit your arguement

You have missed the point totally to turn another thread into another rant about Carroll

What are you talking about Benny? You clearly were talking about Carroll... You said, and I quote you,

"You use Hodgson as the Carroll is absolute sh!te and the whole reason we've had anything go wrong in the last year is all because of him stick to measure against because that is who he took over..."

Clearly you were ranting about Carroll.

by **Kerry07** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:07 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll. Meireles is better than Benayoun, many here claim Lucas is better than Mascherano, whil Aquilani contributed zilch.... which leaves Torres....so in your argument its unfair to compare Rafa's team that had Torres, with Kenny's team that has Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

Wow that is a lot of twisting an turning to suit your arguement

You have missed the point totally to turn another thread into another rant about Carroll

It was me that compared Kenny's team now with Rafa's team that finished 7th... you argued against this citing Kenny not having Torres (which he then replaced with Carroll).

Without even mentioning Carroll you have savaged him. This is your argument so dont spin this on me.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:36 am

Can't be bothered to argue on here anymore... All arguments are total exaggerations to suit the poster's points...

by **Greavesie** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:46 am

ethanr wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

I'd say the loss of Masch and Torres makes the team significantly different to the one Rafa left behind, the only part that currently holds any resemblance is the defence

And look at what Kenny has been getting out of our defense... Second best in the league and only a few million spent on Enrique.

He's inherited an absolutely garbage midfield bar Gerrard, and look how much better Lucas is used... he's been so much more productive under Kenny, and unfortunately we lost one of our best players for the rest of the season.

He got a team that, with the injury to Gerrard, really had little hope of CL until drastic changes could be made.

exactly, nice to see what supportive ownership offers as well. I wasn't jabbing Rafa nor was I defending him, that part of our club is resigned to the past

Kenny offers us a new start with a new perspective, its all going to take time, roll with it

by **devaney** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:57 am

ethanr wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

I'd say the loss of Masch and Torres makes the team significantly different to the one Rafa left behind, the only part that currently holds any resemblance is the defence

And look at what Kenny has been getting out of our defense... Second best in the league and only a few million spent on Enrique.

He's inherited an absolutely garbage midfield bar Gerrard, and look how much better Lucas is used... he's been so much more productive under Kenny, and unfortunately we lost one of our best players for the rest of the season.

He got a team that, with the injury to Gerrard, really had little hope of CL until drastic changes could be made.

That mate is absolute utter bollox !! To say that Kenny inherited a garbage midfield is complete fkg tosh.Gerrard,Lucas,Kuyt,Merieles,Spearing and Maxi could hardly be considered as garbage. Just look at what they achieved in the second half of last season ffs.

As for Lucas his dramatic improvement started way before Kenny arrived. He was just about the only player that showed outstanding form under Hodgson.Seem to remember he got player of the season?

??

The sh.ite that is being written on this forum is truly amazing. If you don't believe me just watch what happens after we beat Bolton today by a few clear goals!!

by **Greavesie** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:12 am

devaney wrote:
ethanr wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

I'd say the loss of Masch and Torres makes the team significantly different to the one Rafa left behind, the only part that currently holds any resemblance is the defence

And look at what Kenny has been getting out of our defense... Second best in the league and only a few million spent on Enrique.

He's inherited an absolutely garbage midfield bar Gerrard, and look how much better Lucas is used... he's been so much more productive under Kenny, and unfortunately we lost one of our best players for the rest of the season.

He got a team that, with the injury to Gerrard, really had little hope of CL until drastic changes could be made.

That mate is absolute utter bollox !! To say that Kenny inherited a garbage midfield is complete fkg tosh.Gerrard,Lucas,Kuyt,Merieles,Spearing and Maxi could hardly be considered as garbage. Just look at what they achieved in the second half of last season ffs.

As for Lucas his dramatic improvement started way before Kenny arrived. He was just about the only player that showed outstanding form under Hodgson.Seem to remember he got player of the season? ??

The sh.ite that is being written on this forum is truly amazing. If you don't believe me just watch what happens after we beat Bolton today by a few clear goals!!

I would argue that the midefiled was b0llocks tbh, without Gerrard the midfield of last season would never break the top 4 let alone think about it. We can argue what they achieved in the second half of the season but they achieved the polar oppostite in the first...

The squad that Hodgson left behind is one of the worst in recent times for me

by **supersub** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:36 am

devaney wrote:The sh.ite that is being written on this forum is truly amazing. If you don't believe me just watch what happens after we beat Bolton today by a few clear goals!!

Just watch what will be written if we don't

by **lakes10** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:25 pm

Reg wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup

Torres was OVERPLAYED, injured and burnt out. He was NOT a bad player.

Wash your mouth out with soap Lakes.

never, he had a long rest and is still playing poor for the russians.

by **lakes10** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:27 pm

supersub wrote:
devaney wrote:The sh.ite that is being written on this forum is truly amazing. If you don't believe me just watch what happens after we beat Bolton today by a few clear goals!!

Just watch what will be written if we don't

pmsl, oh so very true

by **Thommo's perm** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:40 pm

Reg wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup

Torres was OVERPLAYED, injured and burnt out. He was NOT a bad player.

Wash your mouth out with soap Lakes.

Torres had made his mind up to leave as soon as Rafa got the bullet. He felt he was lied to and could no longer stay. I suggest those who disagree look at the goals he scored when Hodgson was in charge and look at the body language, the celebrations (or lack of) and the general attitude.
He should have stayed and is still a good player who made a mistake. We got 50 million for him and should look back at his time here with fondness and gratitude.

by **lakes10** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:47 pm

Thommo's perm wrote:
Reg wrote:
lakes10 wrote:Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup

Torres was OVERPLAYED, injured and burnt out. He was NOT a bad player.

Wash your mouth out with soap Lakes.

Torres had made his mind up to leave as soon as Rafa got the bullet. He felt he was lied to and could no longer stay. I suggest those who disagree look at the goals he scored when Hodgson was in charge and look at the body language, the celebrations (or lack of) and the general attitude.
He should have stayed and is still a good player who made a mistake. We got 50 million for him and should look back at his time here with fondness and gratitude.

sorry mate that dont wash with me, his attitude stunk even before the world cup, most say this was down to a split in the changing room, the spanish side and the none spanish side.

he was very very poor for us before the world cup and his body language stunk then aswell,. he did not get on well with Rafa and he had a few bust ups with him but nothing like the bust up SG and JC had with Rafa.

he my have felt lied to but that dont mean you give up playing for the club when you are picked to play, he stopped playing for Rafa before the world cup and has never been the same, we sold him at the right time and made good money out of it, he has now gone 15hour without a goal that his worse since he has been in the prem, this is down to him and not the team around him.

Rafa book is out soon and Torres dont come off well in it.(talk sport)
Alonso book is out in June and its also said that Torres dont come off well in that one aswell.

by **aCe'** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:25 pm

To get this back on track (this is supposed to be a thread about setups, tactics, formations...etc), I think one of the main reasons behind our struggles this season has been the continuous tinkering and changing of both the formation and the personnel. Its a huge concern and one I've had before the season even started. If we want to be getting the best out of our players surely some consistency in terms of selection and role would go some way in achieving that.
I'm not going to get into other areas that have been discussed to death but I'll just say this, the sooner we get the best 11 out on the pitch on merit rather than price tag the better.

by **Dundalk** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:08 pm

2011 transfer dealings are even worse than 2002 cheyrou-diouf-diao splurge.

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