Liverpool FC Forum

[Thommo's perm]

To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

The "barometer" theory
Its really that simple
   

[Greavesie]

To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

I'd say the loss of Masch and Torres makes the team significantly different to the one Rafa left behind, the only part that currently holds any resemblance is the defence

[Thommo's perm]

Your just a WUM !!!

What's a WUM?

Only a WUM would ask that

[jacdaniel]

Im gonna attempt to answer the "How come Newcastle are doing so well argument".   

There is always a small club that has a very good season, perhaps 2 good seasons where everything goes right for them.  They sign some decent players and maybe get lucky with injuries etc.  For awhile it was Everton, then Villa had a decent season or 2, then Fulham obviously got to the EL final.  It happens.  This year appears to be Newcastle's year.

These clubs have little to no expectations and don't have to play with any pressure.  Their fans generally aren't expecting or demanding CL footie.  The most likely conclusion is that Newcastle will fall away as the season continues and their better players will join more ambitious clubs.

Newcastle United a small club? They've not been massively successful I know. But the size of a club is generally judged by their attendances and in that regard Newcastle are about on par with us. And Sunderland too. I understand your point, but Newcastle aren't small.

The reason they're doing well is probably morale, which as some have stated on here lifts the crowd and in turn lifts the players and with the huge crowds the Toon draw, that's a whole lot of noise, passion and support.

Not really your point I know, but as a northerner, I feel the need to point that out

The size of the club isnt just about attendances is about the whole package including history

Newcastle are not a small club but they are also not a big club

That's what I said. They're not a small club 

Its funny telling them they are though

When I said Small club I was kinda mocking them.  A bit like when Rafa called Everton a small club 

[radun5]

When I said Small club I was kinda mocking them.  A bit like when Rafa called Everton a small club 

Only they really are !

[Benny The Noon]

To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

Your wrong in many ways

I have also used the Spurs method ( building through a ten year period )

Chelsea spend millions to win titles and to stay in the CL spots

The mancs have spend millions upon millions

Arsenal started off by spending money now rely on youth without spending but it's going to hurt them


Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

[lakes10]

To use extreme cases (Man City - just one of four clubs in CL, Hodgson - worst post war manager) as a baramoter is wholly flawed.

Any half decent manager taking over the worst performing Liverpool team in 80 years couldn't fail to do better. The team Kenny inherited was the same one that finished 7th under Rafa (infact it had been improved with Mereiles).. thats the barometer. To use Hodgson as a comparison is desperation, and a terrible indictment on Kenny for those that do. Dalglish is a lot better than to be compared to him.

if you are a true fan then you will know that history will show graeme souness was our worse manager.
most of the problems we have had over the last few years have been down to what he did to the club in the short space of time he was here (like getting shot of the boot room) he set us on this path that Kenny is now trying to move us off.

[jacdaniel]

I dont think people realise what a huge rebuilding job Kenny/Fenway need to do. 

The fantastic team we had in 08/09 is now well and truly in the past.  Torres, Riera, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Yossi and Aqua have all gone. 

Carra, Kuyt, and Aurelio are all getting old now and don't have long left at all.  Even Stevie is past his peak at this point.

We're basically starting from scratch while other clubs have been building for years.

[Benny The Noon]

I dont think people realise what a huge rebuilding job Kenny/Fenway need to do. 

The fantastic team we had in 08/09 is now well and truly in the past.  Torres, Riera, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Yossi and Aqua have all gone. 

Carra, Kuyt, and Aurelio are all getting old now and don't have long left at all.  Even Stevie is past his peak at this point.

We're basically starting from scratch while other clubs have been building for years.

You are making assumptions that people are able to see the bigger picture.

As far as instant success fans are concerned we spent 100 million so we must be top 4 and challenging or else people will be fired.

[lakes10]

I dont think people realise what a huge rebuilding job Kenny/Fenway need to do. 

The fantastic team we had in 08/09 is now well and truly in the past.  Torres, Riera, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Yossi and Aqua have all gone. 

Carra, Kuyt, and Aurelio are all getting old now and don't have long left at all.  Even Stevie is past his peak at this point.

We're basically starting from scratch while other clubs have been building for years.

You are making assumptions that people are able to see the bigger picture.

As far as instant success fans are concerned we spent 100 million so we must be top 4 and challenging or else people will be fired.

yes its never going to happen, just look at the prem today, every game is not a given win even for the top 4 right now.
the smaller clubs in the prem have fpund a way over the last few years in doing over the bigger teams, to win the prem now you must beat the all the smaller teams and get a few wins and draws when you play the other bigger teams.

sometimes i do feel that the more your teams cost the harder it gets to get them to play well when you play the smaller clubs, if you could see inside there heads when they are playing say swansea i am sure it would be saying "this time last year i was playing against barcelona"

[RedAnt]

I dont think people realise what a huge rebuilding job Kenny/Fenway need to do. 

The fantastic team we had in 08/09 is now well and truly in the past.  Torres, Riera, Arbeloa, Alonso, Mascherano, Yossi and Aqua have all gone. 

Carra, Kuyt, and Aurelio are all getting old now and don't have long left at all.  Even Stevie is past his peak at this point.

We're basically starting from scratch while other clubs have been building for years.

You are making assumptions that people are able to see the bigger picture.

As far as instant success fans are concerned we spent 100 million so we must be top 4 and challenging or else people will be fired.

yes its never going to happen, just look at the prem today, every game is not a given win even for the top 4 right now.
the smaller clubs in the prem have fpund a way over the last few years in doing over the bigger teams, to win the prem now you must beat the all the smaller teams and get a few wins and draws when you play the other bigger teams.

sometimes i do feel that the more your teams cost the harder it gets to get them to play well when you play the smaller clubs, if you could see inside there heads when they are playing say swansea i am sure it would be saying "this time last year i was playing against barcelona"

You see it too with the likes of Ballotelli. Couldn't be ars.ed in the league cup against us and dosen't seem that bothered about motivating himself to play "small teams" either. It's a bit of a trend really.

It's what I love about Kenny. No matter the opposition or the competition, Kenny wants to win. Same with Steven Gerrard. They love the game and the club. Money comes later.

[RedAnt]

The UEFA Cup was weakened I guess by the fact that the top 4 teams enter into the CL now

That and the fact the Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and so all the other teams entered into the Euro League, which is a farce in itself. Too many games are played, and the fact that teams who fail in the champions league can drop into the Euro League have made this competition one big joke. It used to have some sort of respect, but money has changed it immensely.

Does the FA Cup winner go into the CL next year?

[Greavesie]

The UEFA Cup was weakened I guess by the fact that the top 4 teams enter into the CL now

That and the fact the Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and so all the other teams entered into the Euro League, which is a farce in itself. Too many games are played, and the fact that teams who fail in the champions league can drop into the Euro League have made this competition one big joke. It used to have some sort of respect, but money has changed it immensely.

Does the FA Cup winner go into the CL next year?

no, never has, but I remember this idea being batted around newkit once upon a time, would certainly bring some of the magic back to the cup anyway

[RedAnt]

The UEFA Cup was weakened I guess by the fact that the top 4 teams enter into the CL now

That and the fact the Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and so all the other teams entered into the Euro League, which is a farce in itself. Too many games are played, and the fact that teams who fail in the champions league can drop into the Euro League have made this competition one big joke. It used to have some sort of respect, but money has changed it immensely.

Does the FA Cup winner go into the CL next year?

no, never has, but I remember this idea being batted around newkit once upon a time, would certainly bring some of the magic back to the cup anyway

If I remember rightly though there is some back door route? If one of the top 4 teams was to win the CL, they'd qualify as winners, meaning ummm...5th placed in the league would qualify?

[Basil]

Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

The club was too big for Hodgson and the fans wanted Kenny. Kenny came in and made a fantastic difference right from the start and made some big signings but not as much as people are making out (£45M ?) the torres money made it look like we spent more.

The honeymoon period is over and we're not getting the results we hoped for but there are reasons for it.

People need to have patience, we've got the basis of a good team and I think they'll all be valuable members of a top squad and we'll continue to strengthen but it takes time.

We were all hoping for a top 4 finish this year but perhaps, in the circumstances, it was a bit unrealistic but we'll get there, have faith.