Liverpool FC Forum

by **Greavesie** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:15 pm

RedAnt wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
RedAnt wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
RedAnt wrote:The UEFA Cup was weakened I guess by the fact that the top 4 teams enter into the CL now

That and the fact the Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and so all the other teams entered into the Euro League, which is a farce in itself. Too many games are played, and the fact that teams who fail in the champions league can drop into the Euro League have made this competition one big joke. It used to have some sort of respect, but money has changed it immensely.

Does the FA Cup winner go into the CL next year?

no, never has, but I remember this idea being batted around newkit once upon a time, would certainly bring some of the magic back to the cup anyway

If I remember rightly though there is some back door route? If one of the top 4 teams was to win the CL, they'd qualify as winners, meaning ummm...5th placed in the league would qualify?

that doesnt involve the FA cup tho, if 4th win the CL they go back in as normal (for finishing 4th, not as winners), however if 5th win the CL then they are allowed in the competition as they have a right to defend the trophy. I think that would mean the winner displacing 4th in the league. When it happened to us it was a unique situation because it hadn't happened before so I wouldn't bank on it happening again anytime soon

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:34 pm

Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

The club was too big for Hodgson and the fans wanted Kenny. Kenny came in and made a fantastic difference right from the start and made some big signings but not as much as people are making out (£45M ?) the torres money made it look like we spent more.

The honeymoon period is over and we're not getting the results we hoped for but there are reasons for it.

People need to have patience, we've got the basis of a good team and I think they'll all be valuable members of a top squad and we'll continue to strengthen but it takes time.

We were all hoping for a top 4 finish this year but perhaps, in the circumstances, it was a bit unrealistic but we'll get there, have faith.

dont get me started on Rafa

by **maguskwt** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:28 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

The club was too big for Hodgson and the fans wanted Kenny. Kenny came in and made a fantastic difference right from the start and made some big signings but not as much as people are making out (£45M ?) the torres money made it look like we spent more.

The honeymoon period is over and we're not getting the results we hoped for but there are reasons for it.

People need to have patience, we've got the basis of a good team and I think they'll all be valuable members of a top squad and we'll continue to strengthen but it takes time.

We were all hoping for a top 4 finish this year but perhaps, in the circumstances, it was a bit unrealistic but we'll get there, have faith.

dont get me started on Rafa

Why?

by **Thommo's perm** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:00 pm

maguskwt wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

The club was too big for Hodgson and the fans wanted Kenny. Kenny came in and made a fantastic difference right from the start and made some big signings but not as much as people are making out (£45M ?) the torres money made it look like we spent more.

The honeymoon period is over and we're not getting the results we hoped for but there are reasons for it.

People need to have patience, we've got the basis of a good team and I think they'll all be valuable members of a top squad and we'll continue to strengthen but it takes time.

We were all hoping for a top 4 finish this year but perhaps, in the circumstances, it was a bit unrealistic but we'll get there, have faith.

dont get me started on Rafa

Why?

by **jacdaniel** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:55 pm

Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

Imagine were we might be now if he had of being given a decent amount of money to land his top targets like Silva, Villa and Simao.

Ill always look back at the Rafa era and think what might have been if someone more responsible had of taking over in 2007.

by **tubby** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:02 pm

jacdaniel wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

Imagine were we might be now if he had of being given a decent amount of money to land his top targets like Silva, Villa and Simao.

Ill always look back at the Rafa era and think what might have been if someone more responsible had of taking over in 2007.

We were at the top of European football then beating the likes of Real and Inter away and even knocking Barca out. Sadly the CL looks a long way off now. Sigh....

But with the new shirt deal and a good transfer window I think we can make our way back in. Won't be easy.

by **RedAnt** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:05 pm

Rafa was a good man and a good manager. The whole Alonso-Barry saga was sadly the beginning of the end for him. Let's face it though, he really did start to lose the plot. Can't have been easy though with the two muppets upstairs.

My main concern about Kenny is that he seems to be trying to evolve to modern times and...well, he ain't really getting it right. I'd love to see him stick to his own philosophies of attacking and taking risks. I think he's guilty of something other LFC managers have been guilty of in recent times:

The idea that avoiding defeat is more important than winning.

He should let a few youngters off the leash. Can't do any real harm can it? Some can't take the pressure I bet, and perhaps it ruins their confidence long term, whilst others love it. Kids don't have the fear that older players have. If the younger ones can't take the pressure at 18, 19, 20 years old, maybe they shouldn't be playing for Liverpool. We have lots in the academy. Surely they can't all be needing the cotton wool treatment?

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:05 pm

jacdaniel wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

Imagine were we might be now if he had of being given a decent amount of money to land his top targets like Silva, Villa and Simao.

Ill always look back at the Rafa era and think what might have been if someone more responsible had of taking over in 2007.

"Rafa Benitez's £229m spending spree: The 76 players signed during the Liverpool manager's reign"

no , edit, forget i posted this. not going there again. this is about Kenny now.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:12 pm

lakes10 wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

Imagine were we might be now if he had of being given a decent amount of money to land his top targets like Silva, Villa and Simao.

Ill always look back at the Rafa era and think what might have been if someone more responsible had of taking over in 2007.

"Rafa Benitez's £229m spending spree: The 76 players signed during the Liverpool manager's reign"

no , edit, forget i posted this. not going there again. this is about Kenny now.

Lakes don't .

We all know it's lazy just stating the net spend and the net amount of players arriving, it's doesn't paint the whole picture and is a very one sided view and it's as bad as people jus stating Kenny spent 100 mil.

by **damjan193** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:15 pm

RedAnt wrote:
Greavesie wrote:
RedAnt wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
RedAnt wrote:The UEFA Cup was weakened I guess by the fact that the top 4 teams enter into the CL now

That and the fact the Cup Winners Cup was scrapped and so all the other teams entered into the Euro League, which is a farce in itself. Too many games are played, and the fact that teams who fail in the champions league can drop into the Euro League have made this competition one big joke. It used to have some sort of respect, but money has changed it immensely.

Does the FA Cup winner go into the CL next year?

no, never has, but I remember this idea being batted around newkit once upon a time, would certainly bring some of the magic back to the cup anyway

If I remember rightly though there is some back door route? If one of the top 4 teams was to win the CL, they'd qualify as winners, meaning ummm...5th placed in the league would qualify?

I think that you qualify for Europa Cup if you win the League/FA cup. Not for the CL though.

by **Thommo's perm** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:41 pm

lakes10 wrote:
jacdaniel wrote:
Basil wrote:Rafa took over and improved the team for a couple of years, without having top money to spend but we had Gerrard and Carragher at their best.

Then Hicks and Gillette came in and started to bleed the club dry and it was downhill from there, not Rafas doing in my opinion.

Imagine were we might be now if he had of being given a decent amount of money to land his top targets like Silva, Villa and Simao.

Ill always look back at the Rafa era and think what might have been if someone more responsible had of taking over in 2007.

"Rafa Benitez's £229m spending spree: The 76 players signed during the Liverpool manager's reign"

no , edit, forget i posted this. not going there again. this is about Kenny now.

Thats when they had a revolving door at Melwood
:eyebrow

by **Kerry07** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll. Meireles is better than Benayoun, many here claim Lucas is better than Mascherano, whil Aquilani contributed zilch.... which leaves Torres....so in your argument its unfair to compare Rafa's team that had Torres, with Kenny's team that has Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

by **lakes10** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:36 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup and and a :censored:

player after the world cup, it was a good sale......just did not spend the money on the right player...saying that Andy still has a chance to turn it around, lets face it, if he got 6 goals in his next two games for us some on here that have been slagging him off would be first in line to blow him off.

by **Kerry07** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:40 pm

lakes10 wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

Torres was no loss, he turned into a bad player before the world cup and and a player after the world cup, it was a good sale......just did not spend the money on the right player...saying that Andy still has a chance to turn it around, lets face it, if he got 6 goals in his next two games for us some on here that have been slagging him off would be first in line to blow him off.

Its sorted, Benny has stated that its unfair to compare Rafa's team that had Torres, with Kenny's team that has Carroll.

My thinking all along.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:35 pm

Kerry07 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Kenny took over Hodgson team including his signings " Poulsen,Cole, Konchesky etc and missing players like Benayoun,Mascherano and Torres, Aquilani missing from the Rafa team.

You use Hodgson as the stick to measure against because that is who he took over from not Rafa . You are ignoring a blatant fact of Hodgson because it doesn't suit your argument .

You have finally.. FINALLY.. accepted the terrible effect of Andy Carroll (which sums up my argument)

Torres (who was at the club when Kenny took over btw) that you mention as being an unfair reason to compare Kenny with Rafa's team.. who did Kenny buy for 35 million as a replacement?

Kenny took over Fernando Torres (who you have cited as a loss) and then proceeded to buy Andy Carroll. Meireles is better than Benayoun, many here claim Lucas is better than Mascherano, whil Aquilani contributed zilch.... which leaves Torres....so in your argument its unfair to compare Rafa's team that had Torres, with Kenny's team that has Carroll.

I agree with your sentiments that Torres was a huge loss which was compounded by a shocking signing. I knew we'd get there eventually.

Wow that is a lot of twisting an turning to suit your arguement

You have missed the point totally to turn another thread into another rant about Carroll

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