Liverpool FC Forum

by **Octsky** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:05 am

to be frank, i want Rafa to be sack by Inter.
when one is at its lowest, its when one reflects the most, reorganise and come back stronger.

you'll be surprise at how many sucessful businessmen came back from bankruptcy and earn their fortune.

Rafa used to be the choosen one but he has fallen. and when he come back stronger with a smaller club, i be the first to applause him.

by **Red-er-Dare** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:35 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:At the end of the day Paco was a fitness coach .

Wrong.

He specialised in physical and fitness work and was the fitness coach at Valencia.

But at Liverpool he initially was in charge of the entire training regime. He was the coach. Benitez took over the training and in doing do upset Ayerestan which led to his resignation.

"A specialist in sports science and player fitness, Ayestaran is known to have grown unhappy with Benitez taking a greater role in the training regimen, but the split remains a surprise due to the long-standing partnership forged by the two men."
link

The results speak for themselves whilst Ayerestan was at the club. The decline in performance and trophies has a distinct correlation with the absence of Paco Ayerestan.

This was the long slow start of our demise IMO, this was the crux of the issue related to pitch matters. Paco was an essential ingredient to our cause, one that Rafa had to undermine.

As the saying goes, Rafa ''made his bed...''

by **devaney** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:25 am

Maybe Rafa and Paco were a little bit like Morecambe and Wise. The some of the two parts was massively greater than the individual components. Benfica and Valencia don't really seem to have benefitted that much from Paco's methods. Time for Rafa to have a chat with his old mate I think!

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:20 pm

We diverge...

Essentially returning back to my original post.

Rafa would not survive or succeed under NESV based solely on his need to be in complete control. Maybe this stance of his may change over time but at present the methods and approach that NESV adopt would be in conflict with Rafa's approach.

by **stapo1000** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:05 pm

no, and anyone who would is an idiot

by **tubby** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:39 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:We diverge...

Essentially returning back to my original post.

Rafa would not survive or succeed under NESV based solely on his need to be in complete control. Maybe this stance of his may change over time but at present the methods and approach that NESV adopt would be in conflict with Rafa's approach.

Your just assuming he would demand full control. But it's possible NESV would actually succeed in getting in decent players and not bargain basement shyte so he wouldn't have to demand so much control would he?

Rafa has experience in winning big tropheys. I don't see how that would conflict with Fenway's aspirations. The fact that he demanded so much control towards the end was only becuase we had 2 idiots in charge who kept pulling the plug on signings.

by **Thommo's perm** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:50 pm

bavlondon wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:We diverge...

Essentially returning back to my original post.

Rafa would not survive or succeed under NESV based solely on his need to be in complete control. Maybe this stance of his may change over time but at present the methods and approach that NESV adopt would be in conflict with Rafa's approach.

Your just assuming he would demand full control. But it's possible NESV would actually succeed in getting in decent players and not bargain basement shyte so he wouldn't have to demand so much control would he?

Rafa has experience in winning big tropheys. I don't see how that would conflict with Fenway's aspirations. The fact that he demanded so much control towards the end was only becuase we had 2 idiots in charge who kept pulling the plug on signings.

He is a control freak
FACT

Control Freak: (Noun)
1. Someone who is determined to make things happen exactly in the way they want and who tries to make other people do what they want
2. One who has an obsessive need to exert control over people and situations.
3. Someone who wants to control every aspect of a situation and will not allow other people to share in making decisions
(also see Benitez, Rafa)

by **devaney** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:56 pm

bavlondon wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:We diverge...

Essentially returning back to my original post.

Rafa would not survive or succeed under NESV based solely on his need to be in complete control. Maybe this stance of his may change over time but at present the methods and approach that NESV adopt would be in conflict with Rafa's approach.

Your just assuming he would demand full control. But it's possible NESV would actually succeed in getting in decent players and not bargain basement shyte so he wouldn't have to demand so much control would he?

Rafa has experience in winning big tropheys. I don't see how that would conflict with Fenway's aspirations. The fact that he demanded so much control towards the end was only becuase we had 2 idiots in charge who kept pulling the plug on signings.

Torres Keen and Aquilani all cost circa £20m each. One success out of three is not too clever. At close to £20m the jury is out on a very up and down Johnson who leaves a lot to be desired as a defender. H & G were a lot of things and until Rafa's final year his average spend was between £20m and £25m which is hardly peanuts. Not even those two muppets can be blamed for some of the money that has been wasted. Rafa had a fair crack of the whip in the transfer market. Imagine what Wenger would have done with that budget. He's been surviving on a net spend of well below £8m a year for an eternity.

I will remember and always thank Benitez and the team for one of the most memorable nights of my life in May 2005 but I would not have him back. He is the past not the future.

by **burjennio** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:35 pm

Was Benitez net spend under H&G not less than £8m per year?

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:21 pm

You fighting a losing cause to suggest Benitez was not that controlling and that his controlling behaviour was a result of H&G. that's patently wrong.

I'm not criticising Benitez, in some circumstances that level of passion and control is refreshing but under Benitez it affected his relationship with a successful backroom staff. Essentially he was a control freak.

NESV are more about employing individuals who do a specific job. A manager who manages the team. A director of football who handles recruitment and signings. Etc etc.

This maybe why Benitez is failing at Inter. The system NESV are employing here is very European.

by **Greavesie** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:30 pm

stapo1000 wrote:no, and anyone who would is an idiot

oh well we might as well just close the thread now then

by **devaney** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:36 pm

burjennio wrote:Was Benitez net spend under H&G not less than £8m per year?

His net spend during his tenureship was £70m and not the £25m that Rafa would like us to believe. His spending in the last 18 months was considerably less but this was possibly due to people understandably loosing faith in Rafa's ability to spend the money effectively.

by **burjennio** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:40 pm

devaney wrote:
burjennio wrote:Was Benitez net spend under H&G not less than £8m per year?

His net spend during his tenureship was £70m and not the £25m that Rafa would like us to believe. His spending in the last 18 months was considerably less but this was possibly due to people understandably loosing faith in Rafa's ability to spend the money effectively.

There was an in depth article posted on this site somewhere that stated his net spend under H&G was under £8m a season.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:03 pm

You don't need to roll out the somewhat misleading net spend figures to understand whether or not Rafa made the most of his opportunities in the transfer market. Nobody, for example, would surely argue that Dossena, Keane or Aquilani were good value, since - to varying degrees - we all accept that the squad needs strengthening, and one area of consensus is the striker department, another is the full back department, and last season there was also a broad consensus in respect of the midfield dep't (we have since signed Meireles). If we accept these are (or used to be) major problem areas, it follows that if we had made the right signings - as opposed to Dossena, Keane, Aquilani, for example - it might well have made a significant difference to the quality of the squad, ergo our performances on the pitch. If you're one of the people on here who thinks that Riera was sh!t or that Glen Johnson is one of the worst full backs in the club's history then you can also account for them when asking the question, "Did Rafa make the most of his opportunities in the transfer market?". It would be downright ridiculous, though, if you were to completely slag off some of the expensive buys he made, whilst arguing that our failure on the pitch was all down to the owners and that Rafa's hands were tied in the transfer market.

by **7_Kewell** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:05 pm

burjennio wrote:Was Benitez net spend under H&G not less than £8m per year?

not when you take into consideration agent fees, sighing on fee etc.

Robbie Keane's agent earnt 1 million in from that transfer disaster alone.

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