GLEN JOHNSON - Official Thread

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:37 pm

aCe' wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
dawson99 wrote:As soon as anyone questions an ex manager or supports the current manager, no matter what hes done for our club, he should be shipped to Bolton... man we're fantastic fans :D

He said last season if Rafa didnt play him every game  he would leave and go to Bolton.

Within months Rafa has gone, the day before the new owners take over under Purslows watch Carra gets a 2 year bumper contract extention for over 90 grand a week
hmmmmmmmm.....................

The day Rafa got sacked the scouse Guardiola was on a flight to South Africa, Rafa said senior squad players went behind his back, a few weeks later at the testimonial Gerard Houllier was sat beside Roy in the dugout, where was Rafa Benitez?

Carra got a new deal because his services to the club warranted that.. He's still our best CB and despite having a rough start to the season his form picked up in recent weeks and he's performed admirably..

Im not his biggest fan (as a player) but unlike you i respect what the guy did for the club... Its beyond pathetic what you're trying to do here... To be perfectly honest I think your bitterness towards the manager has far surpassed what many would call unhealthy and now you ramble your nonsense on every thread like a crazed buffoon.. I (along with many other fans, im sure) would have lost a lot of respect for the club and management if Carra's contract wasnt renewed (wages are a different matter) ..

Regarding the Johnson thing, its funny how different people can read the same thing and see it in different ways... From his earlier quotes i thought Roy was pretty clear in stating that Johnson's ability should see him playing at the very top level rather than the mediocre form he's been showing of late... In saying that he admits that Johnson is a quality player and that the level of expectations given his quality is a little higher than average.. You amongst others however just read the thing and though : " Hodgson called Johnson sht !"

Getting a little boring now... I dont think many (if any) would argue that Roy is struggling at the moment but you just seem to be enjoying it more than most...

Obsessed *awaits the other lemming stalkers to arrive in topic* Hows the puppet master doing BTW? Still putting his hand up your skirt I see  :;):
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Postby Zidane » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:38 pm

Ace I'll back you on that post but for me carra and steven have both meddled in things that players shouldn't get involved in. The bigger problem though was that the club listened and gave them too much power, of course this is all speculation but their behavior this year, for me was proof in the pudding. Such is modern football though, players have too much power.

Also, A LOT of people on the forum are out of order at the moment with their posts, it's getting ridiculous.
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Postby bigmick » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:42 pm

If the chief exucutive comes up to senior players, tells them they are getting rid of Benitez and asks them their opinion of a shortlist, they are entitled to give it. It really is as simple as that. As predicted weeks ago, once carra said the immortal words "it probably was time for a change" in an interview, the great brainwashed were always going to hunt him down.

His performances this season (where he's been comfortably our best defender, by an absolute country mile) are irrelevent to these people. So sad but there it is.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:48 pm

bigmick wrote:If the chief exucutive comes up to senior players, tells them they are getting rid of Benitez and asks them their opinion of a shortlist, they are entitled to give it. It really is as simple as that. As predicted weeks ago, once carra said the immortal words "it probably was time for a change" in an interview, the great brainwashed were always going to hunt him down.

His performances this season (where he's been comfortably our best defender, by an absolute country mile) are irrelevent to these people. So sad but there it is.

Thats your opinion isnt it?

I listen to match going reds who know the score so I tend to believe them more, they have no reason to lie paying out 100's of pounds a season traveling up and down the counrty to be told by the vice captain that they are pr!cks and should fuck off, who would pay his wages if they did?
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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Postby aCe' » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm

Ciggy wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
dawson99 wrote:As soon as anyone questions an ex manager or supports the current manager, no matter what hes done for our club, he should be shipped to Bolton... man we're fantastic fans :D

He said last season if Rafa didnt play him every game  he would leave and go to Bolton.

Within months Rafa has gone, the day before the new owners take over under Purslows watch Carra gets a 2 year bumper contract extention for over 90 grand a week
hmmmmmmmm.....................

The day Rafa got sacked the scouse Guardiola was on a flight to South Africa, Rafa said senior squad players went behind his back, a few weeks later at the testimonial Gerard Houllier was sat beside Roy in the dugout, where was Rafa Benitez?

Carra got a new deal because his services to the club warranted that.. He's still our best CB and despite having a rough start to the season his form picked up in recent weeks and he's performed admirably..

Im not his biggest fan (as a player) but unlike you i respect what the guy did for the club... Its beyond pathetic what you're trying to do here... To be perfectly honest I think your bitterness towards the manager has far surpassed what many would call unhealthy and now you ramble your nonsense on every thread like a crazed buffoon.. I (along with many other fans, im sure) would have lost a lot of respect for the club and management if Carra's contract wasnt renewed (wages are a different matter) ..

Regarding the Johnson thing, its funny how different people can read the same thing and see it in different ways... From his earlier quotes i thought Roy was pretty clear in stating that Johnson's ability should see him playing at the very top level rather than the mediocre form he's been showing of late... In saying that he admits that Johnson is a quality player and that the level of expectations given his quality is a little higher than average.. You amongst others however just read the thing and though : " Hodgson called Johnson sht !"

Getting a little boring now... I dont think many (if any) would argue that Roy is struggling at the moment but you just seem to be enjoying it more than most...

Obsessed *awaits the other lemming stalkers to arrive in topic* Hows the puppet master doing BTW? Still putting his hand up your skirt I see  :;):

trust you to know all about muppets and upskirts darling !
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Postby OneHotRed » Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:56 pm

Ciggy wrote:I listen to match going reds who know the score so I tend to believe them more, they have no reason to lie paying out 100's of pounds a season traveling up and down the counrty to be told by the vice captain that they are pr!cks and should fuck off, who would pay his wages if they did?

Act like pr!cks and they should expect it - Like a few on here - This is not Liverpool anymore, its disgusting.
Last edited by OneHotRed on Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:03 pm

aCe' wrote:trust you to know all about muppets and upskirts darling !

I said puppets not muppets you know what Im talking about which one is you? :;):

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Postby burjennio » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:07 pm

dawson99 wrote:i think its hilarious that everyone on here slates Johnson, but as soon as the manager does hes suddenly awesome again

:nod

Its becoming apparent that Roy Hodgson just isnt going to be accepted as Liverpool manager, alot of that is his own making but there is a sizable part of out support that just plain dont like the way the man conducts business and will use everything they can to paint him in a negative light. In fairness a few people on here were doing the same thing to Rafa Benitez but its definitely more pronounced and vocal for the current man in charge.

I feel for the man, it has to be tough to be in a position where no matter what you do you cant win, it must be what being England manager is like but, and I cannot stress this enough, the mans tactics are doing him no favours. Personally I think all the media stuff and things hes being damned for saying are being cranked up to sound many times worse than what they are case in point being his perfectly justifiable criticism of Glen Johnson. But when you go to Stoke City and try to defend for 90mins and you are the manager of Liverpool Football Club then you deserve every bit of flack that comes your way in my eyes.

Not to derail the Glen Johnson thread further but if you think Carragher has been our best defender this season you need a CAT scan stat. The big Greek since he came into the back 4 has been not only the best defender on show but also a means to combat an aerial threat that everyone else in that back line seems to have forgotten how to do in the last 2 seasons. Just am example of Carras questionable decision making this year go and watch the Napoli game again and tell me what he was doing charging 20yds out of position to try a win a ball that was covered only to leave a giant gap that Ezequiel Lavezzi could have drove an 18 wheeler through.

Just because he blames everybody else for everything doesnt mean nothing is ever his fault. Thats a proverb I just made up. Im not skilled enough to compose a song like the rest of you guys
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:14 pm

aCe' wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
dawson99 wrote:As soon as anyone questions an ex manager or supports the current manager, no matter what hes done for our club, he should be shipped to Bolton... man we're fantastic fans :D

He said last season if Rafa didnt play him every game  he would leave and go to Bolton.

Within months Rafa has gone, the day before the new owners take over under Purslows watch Carra gets a 2 year bumper contract extention for over 90 grand a week
hmmmmmmmm.....................

The day Rafa got sacked the scouse Guardiola was on a flight to South Africa, Rafa said senior squad players went behind his back, a few weeks later at the testimonial Gerard Houllier was sat beside Roy in the dugout, where was Rafa Benitez?

Carra got a new deal because his services to the club warranted that.. He's still our best CB and despite having a rough start to the season his form picked up in recent weeks and he's performed admirably..

Im not his biggest fan (as a player) but unlike you i respect what the guy did for the club... Its beyond pathetic what you're trying to do here... To be perfectly honest I think your bitterness towards the manager has far surpassed what many would call unhealthy and now you ramble your nonsense on every thread like a crazed buffoon.. I (along with many other fans, im sure) would have lost a lot of respect for the club and management if Carra's contract wasnt renewed (wages are a different matter) ..

Regarding the Johnson thing, its funny how different people can read the same thing and see it in different ways... From his earlier quotes i thought Roy was pretty clear in stating that Johnson's ability should see him playing at the very top level rather than the mediocre form he's been showing of late... In saying that he admits that Johnson is a quality player and that the level of expectations given his quality is a little higher than average.. You amongst others however just read the thing and though : " Hodgson called Johnson sht !"

Getting a little boring now... I dont think many (if any) would argue that Roy is struggling at the moment but you just seem to be enjoying it more than most...

This is the ineresting part for me
How to balance your hatred for the manager and wanting him to fail by losing games, with wanting the team to win games and therefore him being successful
It must be a right fu'cker...
:nod
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Postby Ciggy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:16 pm

From Garstonette on RAWK

Carragher's Career Extension Symptomatic Of Deep-Rooted Problems

Expectations before the 2002/2003 season were high. In the years leading up to it, we had finished 4th, 3rd and 2nd. It was meant to be our year. Going fourteen games unbeaten at the beginning of the campaign had spirits running sky high. Nobody could have predicted that when Liverpool travelled up to Middlesbrough on November 9th – sitting top of the table - it would be twelve games and over two months before we would record our next league win. Gareth Southgate’s winner at the Riverside Stadium would be a defining moment in Houllier’s tenure. Had we come away with even just a 0-0 draw that day, who knows how things might have turned out?

Fast forward just under five months from the trip to Middlesbrough that sucker-punched the camp’s morale and I’m sat in a pub around Anfield. It’s around five o’clock and the passion from the stands has spilled out on to the Walton Breck Rd. Liverpool had just been beaten 2-1 by Manchester City. Nicolas Anelka – the man Houllier snubbed in favour of El Hadji Diouf – had just scored a last minute winner that made Champions League qualification improbable.

As is always the way when alcohol is involved, people were very opinionated. From being a side that was ready to end our long, long wait and bring home the league title at the beginning of the season, we were now apparently a team in need of a serious overhaul. “Remove the deadwood” was the buzz phrase. Diao, Biscan, Diouf, Cheyrou, Traore and… Jamie Carragher. All of them should have been on the next bus out of Liverpool in the summer rebuild.

Gerard Houllier had always seen Jamie Carragher as a full-back and fans were frustrated at how limited he was in that position. The illness to Markus Babbel saw Carragher shifted to new right-back position. Previously, he had spent his time on the left of the back four and while everybody involved in the “treble season” deserves credit, my lasting memory of Carragher in that position was him looking forward, surveying the scene that lay ahead of him, before swinging round like a protractor and playing a safe ball back to the goalkeeper. And sometimes that was when he was forty yards up the pitch.

The narrow midfield that Houllier insisted on fielding made an attacking full-back a priority, but Carragher wasn’t that person.

The days of a “defender defends” were numbered. Arsenal opted to replace the great Lee Dixon and Nigel Winterburn with Lauren and Gio Van Brockhorst: two players with a greater sense of adventure. I think Houllier recognised this trend and in the 2003/2004 season, attempted to adjust his tactical approach. But I think when a manager goes against his own philosophies, it spells danger.

Somewhere between trying to add some flair and creativity to the side in Houllier’s final year, we lost our shape and defensive discipline. Players like Diouf and Kewell were brought in, but I don’t think Houllier ever achieved the all-important balance. We may have outwitted Arsenal in the 2001 FA Cup final, but I remember sat at the Millennium Stadium in 2002 for the Community Shield just over a year later, seeing Arsene Wenger’s men absolutely run riot against us. They had speed, ability, strength. Simply put, they were a different animal (even if the score at the end only read 1-0).

Even in his final season, Houllier retained the same centre-back pairing that had served him well throughout 2000-2002 though: the “SH partnership”, Sami Hyypia and Stephane Henchoz. While they were both excellent readers of the game, neither had the pace to keep up with the ball over the top or in behind. Every success we had under Houllier was when we asked sides to play through us. It’s a negative tactic, but one we executed brilliantly at times.

Jamie Carragher was shifted out of the side as Steve Finnan was brought in at right-back and John Arne-Riise on the left. Whatever way you look at it, Houllier failed to realise Carragher’s potential. But Benitez didn’t. When he arrived in 2004, one of the first things he did was bring in Carragher and plant him alongside Sami Hyypia.

Benitez’s tactics were very different to Houllier’s. He wanted the side to push much further up the field. He wanted to squeeze the opposition and pressurize them when they were in possession. He did so at Valencia, even though Roberto Ayala and Mauricio Pellegrino also suffered from the same problem Henchoz and Hyypia did.

Over twenty yards, neither of them would keep up with your average striker, which goes to show the effectiveness of their midfield. Possession is the greatest form of defence and controlling the ball is Benitez’s ideal. But the back-up plan is to have every one of his players pressing, pushing the opposition back. You can almost picture it like a rugby scrum. Everyone working individually would lose, but together you can outmuscle the other team.

On Benitez, Carragher said: "I am a bit more mature. I have had a great deal of help off Rafael Benitez as well. He has certainly helped us as a back four and he is a big student of the game.

"He studied the Milan team of the late 80s and early 90s and showed us videos of them and he is determined for us to be as solid and tight as possible.”

Benitez showed that you don’t necessarily need to have fast centre-halves to play higher up the pitch. Players like Sissoko, Mascherano and even Kuyt were key in closing the spaces in high areas of the pitch. It was said that his sides “defended as a team and attacked as a team”.

The importance of closing down defenders before they could distribute the ball was as important as closing down a striker to him. With that said, he was known during his time at Valencia to use Miroslav Djukic for the pace he brought to the defence. The players he earmarked for the future at centre half at Liverpool – Skrtel and Agger – were also quicker over the deck than their predecessors. Perhaps a coincidence, but more likely it was Benitez’s reaction to adapting to the Premier League.

Rafael Benitez brought a lot to Liverpool Football Club, but the decision to move Carragher into the centre was clearly a masterstroke. There is no denying it. His performances in the Champions League campaign of 2004/2005 were simply stunning. The sight of Carragher with “cramp in both his groins” as Andy Townsend put it, stretching to knock out an AC Milan cross into our penalty area deep into extra time will live long in the memory. Admittedly, he was part of the backline that was torn apart by the genius of Pirlo, Kaka, Crespo and Shevchenko that night, but by the end, his contribution was every bit as vital as the goals scored by Gerrard, Smicer and Alonso.

So then, what has changed? Well, first of all, Rafa Benitez is no longer here. We’re now under the leadership of Roy Hodgson, whose approach to the game is reminiscent to Gerard Houllier – the man who overlooked the talent of Carragher. The difference now of course is that Jamie Carragher’s reputation is very different.

Roy Hodgson’s job was to “steady the ship”, rather than “rock the boat”, but the whispers on the stands and among those that have watched us closely is that the latter is closer to what we require.

Another candidate for the position of manager in the summer was Manuel Pellegrini who did an awful lot of good for Real Madrid, despite not managing to win any silverware.

If Jose Mourinho goes on to win a major honour with Madrid– and who would bet against him? – then what Pellegrini brought to the table shouldn’t be overlooked. You can’t forget that he recorded a magnificent 96 points total in his only season there and he did so playing a great brand of football. His side scored over 100 goals. More importantly though, he went against the grain.

Real Madrid have had over a dozen managers since the turn of the Millennium, but few of them have gone against Madrid’s accepted conventions. Capello did and won them the league. He ignored the boos to Emerson and persisted with him for what he brought his side. Similarly Manuel Pellegrini pinpointed a real burden and dealt with it emphatically, by curbing the ludicrous influence that Guti and Raul had on the dressing room. I can’t help but feel that it’s the sort of “rule with an iron fist” that we so desperately require.

What any manager needs to say when he first walks into a club is that nobody’s position in the side is secure. There should be no comfort zone. What Hodgson has done is almost the polar opposite. He told Gerrard he can practically play wherever it is he feels most comfortable. He told Joe Cole he can play in his favoured, central position and he’s awarded Jamie Carragher a two year contract even though his performances have been on the wane for a good eighteen months.

Giving a player whose pace and acceleration has deteriorated an extension on his contract sent out all the wrong messages. With that said, under Hodgson and the system he plays, Carragher can squeeze out a few more years. Sat deep and inviting pressure onto us requires defenders with a good reading of the game, with the ability to win their own personal battle, players with strength and determination.

(Incidentally, part of why Glen Johnson is struggling is down to the fact that he is being asked to play along a deep backline that doesn’t push up the field. Daniel Alves and Maicon would struggle playing with such tactics and they are regarded as the best right-backs in the world.)

The fact that Carragher excels in Hodgson’s tactics is symptomatic of what is wrong with us at the moment. Jamie Carragher’s days were numbered playing as a centre-half in a side that presses the opposition high up the field, because his legs have gone and his distribution is poor. Even before news broke of Daniel Agger’s injury, it was clear that Roy didn’t fancy him. The comments that Agger came out with and then quickly retracted had every Liverpool fan nodding their head in agreement. Centre-halves in the modern game need football ability. Vermaelen, Pique, Ferdinand, Lucio, Carvalho. The “if in doubt, hit it out” mantra is dying out.

I found it interesting that John Henry spoke about Arsene Wenger as a man who has delivered to Arsenal his ideal for how a sports team should be run. When Wenger first arrived at Arsenal, he bought players with experience and relied on the old heads like Adams and Keown. But as the Premier League developed, so did Wenger’s philosophy. There is little room for players over the age of 30 and, the few that do make it, are given short contracts, with the emphasis being on who is going to replace them in the long-term. I don’t think extending Carragher’s contract was a terrible idea, I just thought the timing of it was bizarre.

It’s vital now that we look into the future and begin to phase players like Carragher out. Use him more on the training field than the team sheet, to help the progress of the younger players.
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

Kenny Dalglish 1/2/2011

REST IN PEACE PHIL, YOU WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.
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Postby Zidane » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:25 pm

Great post and I agree.
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:41 pm

Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:If the chief exucutive comes up to senior players, tells them they are getting rid of Benitez and asks them their opinion of a shortlist, they are entitled to give it. It really is as simple as that. As predicted weeks ago, once carra said the immortal words "it probably was time for a change" in an interview, the great brainwashed were always going to hunt him down.

His performances this season (where he's been comfortably our best defender, by an absolute country mile) are irrelevent to these people. So sad but there it is.

Thats your opinion isnt it?

I listen to match going reds who know the score so I tend to believe them more, they have no reason to lie paying out 100's of pounds a season traveling up and down the counrty to be told by the vice captain that they are pr!cks and should fuck off, who would pay his wages if they did?

sigh.

If we're going to have a witch hunt for players who arn't nice to fans, then surely Gerrard should be top of the list. He's told fans to f**k off on more than one occasion. I only make it to 25 games a season, so i dunno if that means i 'know the score' or not tho  :laugh:
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Postby PabloMedina28 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:05 pm

back to glen johnson ay?

we need width in this team and johnson should be given a go ahead of kelly at rightback
johnson is the only player in this team apart from nando when he drifts out wide that beats his man with pace and skill and can put a good ball into the box... why not give it a go? and with kelly behind him we would be pretty solid defensively
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Postby lakes10 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:09 pm

johnson at England = goodplayer, holds the ball up well, good runs.

johnson at Liverpool = what the hell are you doing man, wake up. keep hold of the ball, make a few runs, look before youpass it.
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Postby RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:10 pm

stmichael wrote:the irony of hodgson telling somebody else to "get their act together" is astonishing.

It truly beggars belief mate
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