Liverpool FC Forum

by **lakes10** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:32 pm

bigmick wrote:Yes I think one or two are getting confused between our first team and our squad. The team which lost last night was our "reserve" players, and it's safe to assume that on the evidnce of that, they aren't very good. Yes I think the manager has to take a lot of the blame, but if we're being serious about it it's not really his fault that the reserve bunch of players who were left behind for him aren't very good.

One or two of that reserve bunch of players have some of us advocating actually being in the first team, so how strong that makes our first team God only knows.

good post mate.

by **burjennio** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:08 pm

bigmick wrote:Yes I think one or two are getting confused between our first team and our squad. The team which lost last night was our "reserve" players, and it's safe to assume that on the evidnce of that, they aren't very good. Yes I think the manager has to take a lot of the blame, but if we're being serious about it it's not really his fault that the reserve bunch of players who were left behind for him aren't very good.

One or two of that reserve bunch of players have some of us advocating actually being in the first team, so how strong that makes our first team God only knows.

I think that the key point is that reserve team or not, those players are light years ahead in terms of abilty than anyone in the Northampton Town side. While Im sure the result was in some degree a perfect storm of Liverpool underperformance/ Tactical Ineptitude vs Northamption getting it spot on + every player having the game of their lifes there just isnt any excuse for what was served up last night, the approprate word is disgrace. Thats the last Im mentioning that game, that should be classed as rock bottom and the only way to go from now on is up.

Would you believe the topic on Talk Sport at the moment, and I quote that f*cking pr*ck Adrian Durham:

"Liverpool are in meltdown and its all Rafas fault"

Im sure several of you are reaching for the phone right now

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:15 pm

Once again mate I'm in agreement with you. We've made many mistakes as a club over the years, and one of the main ones has been by being over loyal to under-achieving managers, making excuses for their shortcomings. We did it with Houllier, we did it with Benitez, and while from peoples reactions it's very unlikely we will do the same with Roy, it's important I think that those who do back him (there are a few of us

) don't go down the same route.

If Poulsen turns out to be sh!t, it's Roys fault.
If Konchesky isn't better than Insua, ditto.
If Mereiles isn't worth the money, same again. Same again with Cole, Brad Jones etc etc.

Similarly, if we don't beat Northampton it's Roys fault, nobody elses. That said, if he had his time again and if he knew then what he knows now, he wouldn't have trusted the reserves. The reason is he now knows how poor they are. It's his fault for not finding it out earlier and selecting them obviously, but it's not his fault that they are poor in the first place.

by **Thommo's perm** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:18 pm

bigmick wrote:Once again mate I'm in agreement with you. We've made many mistakes as a club over the years, and one of the main ones has been by being over loyal to under-achieving managers, making excuses for their shortcomings. We did it with Houllier, we did it with Benitez, and while from peoples reactions it's very unlikely we will do the same with Roy, it's important I think that those who do back him (there are a few of us ) don't go down the same route.

If Poulsen turns out to be sh!t, it's Roys fault.
If Konchesky isn't better than Insua, ditto.
If Mereiles isn't worth the money, same again. Same again with Cole, Brad Jones etc etc.

Similarly, if we don't beat Northampton it's Roys fault, nobody elses. That said, if he had his time again and if he knew then what he knows now, he wouldn't have trusted the reserves. The reason is he now knows how poor they are. It's his fault for not finding it out earlier and selecting them obviously, but it's not his fault that they are poor in the first place.

Witness for the prosecution or defence???
:Oo:

by **Reg** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:29 pm

Lets go the whole hog, 'I blame Maggie'.

If Woy didnt like the reserve players then why did he play them? I dont buy into the comment he 'didnt know' they were [email]cr@p...........[/email]

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:36 pm

I dont think there is any excuse on last nights result.
Roy gets to see these players every day in training and should have a decent enough opinion on most of them by now.
He fielded that team he played those tactics and he chose not to change them or the personel.

Last night was shocking on so many levels.
Its indefensible, and it's something he better learn from.
Hopefully this is his Burnley moment, although to be fair Northampton at home and Burnley away are slightly different propositions.

by **Reg** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:44 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/league_cup/9025293.stm

Woy: 'Northampton played extremely well........' :laugh:

by **Scottbot** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:48 pm

Usual amateur dramatics in this thread I see. I'm not quite as horrified as some others at last night's result, for example I think the article that Lynds put up is complete tosh and just the usual journalistic over-exageration. I'm dissapointed we lost the game, I only listened to it but it sounded like a lousy performance. I'm not going crazy about it because the big sides have been going out to the underdogs in this competition for more than ten years now, just ask an evertonian. I'm far more concerned about our recent performances in the league, particularly the games with West Brom and Brimingham and am desperate to see us come out and play more positivelyin our next two home games with Sunderland and Blackpool.

Just a few points for me from the manc game were:

- We looked composed and crisp in our passing at various stages during the game.

- We looked scared to commit bodies forward to turn that possession into something more.

- Our fullbacks need to get a lot tighter to their man when they are in and around the final third. We saw it at Birmingham and at trafford, we're not good enough at CB to allow crosses in at such a rate. Anyone else missing Arbeloa out there!? He very rarely let his man get a cross in, they might have beaten him but he cut out the crosses.

- Gerrard had a fine game at CM.

- I'd rather have Poulsen in ahead of Lucas. It seems the forums' favourite scapegoat is now a protected species with so may seemingly having Poulsen pegged in terms of what he can and can't do as a footballer. All i'd say is it's early days people, Lucas has had three years to prove he is plainly isn't up to it but Poulsen has been sussed by many after just three weeks!

by **jacdaniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:49 pm

Reg wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/league_cup/9025293.stm

Woy: 'Northampton played extremely well........'

I wish he'd stop saying embarrassing things like that

by **burjennio** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:50 pm

bigmick wrote:Once again mate I'm in agreement with you. We've made many mistakes as a club over the years, and one of the main ones has been by being over loyal to under-achieving managers, making excuses for their shortcomings. We did it with Houllier, we did it with Benitez, and while from peoples reactions it's very unlikely we will do the same with Roy, it's important I think that those who do back him (there are a few of us ) don't go down the same route.

If Poulsen turns out to be sh!t, it's Roys fault.
If Konchesky isn't better than Insua, ditto.
If Mereiles isn't worth the money, same again. Same again with Cole, Brad Jones etc etc.

Similarly, if we don't beat Northampton it's Roys fault, nobody elses. That said, if he had his time again and if he knew then what he knows now, he wouldn't have trusted the reserves. The reason is he now knows how poor they are. It's his fault for not finding it out earlier and selecting them obviously, but it's not his fault that they are poor in the first place.

We know that Rafas faults got overlooked at times because many felt (with some justifcation) that he was being hampered by the owners, in the end it definitely seemed that his feud had started to influence his football and while I always loved the guy for what he had done in his tenure it was clear that this was effecting the team in a negative way.

However, I dont buy for a second that all these reserve players are terrible players, I doubt the passion of one or two and there are a couple that I believe are asked to play roles that dont suit their strengths but there is talent there, and whether a combination of these factors is holding them back remains to be seen bur they arn't a waste of space.

I too wll back the manager but I dont think its fair to say he should be judged the same way as the previous manager, Benitez taking us to 2 CL finals and running the Mancs close for the title bought him that extra few months last season when everything hit the fan. If Hodgson ends up with a run of results where we end up 15th after 20 games then I dont believe he's earned that stay of execution and he'll have to go but if he holds his hands up and says "its not working" and changes this current style of play I beleve he'll take us on a march up the table, I dont want to see this forlorn figure hiding his head in his hands ten games into the job, it doesnt exactly inspire confidence in us the fans and Im sure the players arnt exactly encouraged either

by **jacdaniel** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:52 pm

I'm far more concerned about our recent performances in the league, particularly the games with West Brom and Brimingham and am desperate to see us come out and play more positivelyin our next two home games with Sunderland and Blackpool.

i think everyone's major concern is the tactics though. We sit very deep and play negative football.
last night Roy was happiest with the final 15 mins. But at that stage we had resorted to desperate tactics of hoofing the ball up the Greek.

I hope we start playing some kind of decent football soon. Honey moon period is certainly over now.

by **red till i die!!** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:32 pm

yeah the tactics for me are puzzling,absolutely clueless at times and they dont seem to be changing either.
im really gutted we are as bad as last season in every sense,even with 4 new players added to the squad.
i thought a new gaffer would herald a change in our club,so far its been non existent.
i dont like what i see but i said i would support roy till the end of the season to give him a chance to show what he could do.
the pressure is beginning to mount on him so he would want to change things quick or he will be hounded out by christmas!!

by **akumaface** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:40 pm

The negative tactics showed that Woy is low on confidence. Sitting too deep doesn't mean our defense would be better and in fact it is the opposite as we don't have the players for this format. We need superior CBs who is excellent in the air (like Hypia) in order for this to work. Also, we are constantly under attack by staying too deep. The opposition wouldn't have to worry much about off side and thus far more dangerous and deadly if there is a mistake at the back. You can see Woy is really feeling the pressure and thus tried to play safe but this is not working and will have an even more hard time to convince the players to believe in him. Not looking good.

Even though I don't care about the Carling cup much but if we were winning in the league then our fans would not complain as much if we exited. But the fact that we are playing sh;t in the league, Woy should take this chance to get a convincing win last night for a confidence builder. Now that the result was so bad that it would have a far more negative effect on the team. Someone may say it is too early to judge Woy but it is obvious that you don't need to go through the whole season so see Woy is not up to it (just like Lucas is to the team

, couldn't resist the temptation not to mention Lucas somehow

). Woy is just repeating the same mistake as last season but with even worse players....I wonder how long we have to suffer and hitting absolutely rock bottom doesn't always mean we can bounce back.

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:43 pm

Scottbot wrote:Usual amateur dramatics in this thread I see. I'm not quite as horrified as some others at last night's result, for example I think the article that Lynds put up is complete tosh and just the usual journalistic over-exageration. I'm dissapointed we lost the game, I only listened to it but it sounded like a lousy performance. I'm not going crazy about it because the big sides have been going out to the underdogs in this competition for more than ten years now, just ask an evertonian. I'm far more concerned about our recent performances in the league, particularly the games with West Brom and Brimingham and am desperate to see us come out and play more positivelyin our next two home games with Sunderland and Blackpool.

Just a few points for me from the manc game were:

- We looked composed and crisp in our passing at various stages during the game.

- We looked scared to commit bodies forward to turn that possession into something more.

- Our fullbacks need to get a lot tighter to their man when they are in and around the final third. We saw it at Birmingham and at trafford, we're not good enough at CB to allow crosses in at such a rate. Anyone else missing Arbeloa out there!? He very rarely let his man get a cross in, they might have beaten him but he cut out the crosses.

- Gerrard had a fine game at CM.

- I'd rather have Poulsen in ahead of Lucas. It seems the forums' favourite scapegoat is now a protected species with so may seemingly having Poulsen pegged in terms of what he can and can't do as a footballer. All i'd say is it's early days people, Lucas has had three years to prove he is plainly isn't up to it but Poulsen has been sussed by many after just three weeks!

Good post that Scott and I agree with all of it. I actually think if we start to press the ball a bit higher and with a bit more energy, we'll improve fairly readily.

I am talking about the FIRST TEAM here though, not the lot that played last night.

That said we could really do with a win against Sunderland, as it is the forums are going into meltdown (which is a disgrace IMHO) and a defeat there or even a draw will only ramp up the pressure. I'm really starting to think some of the fans will only be happy once they've ran him out of town.

by **parchpea** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:47 pm

Clearly Hodgson was not a favoured choice of supporters and to add to his problems he was replacing a manager that had become something of an Anfield icon. Before a balls been kicked hes on rocky ground from the off but then hes the task of restoring confidence in this team and trying to reshape it by means of sell to buy and a limited budget whilst going on bended knee to try and keep our leading lights at the football club. Hodgsons a job and a half on, but to win over supporters needed to hit the ground running immediately which unfortunately has gone the other way in spectacular fashion. I still think he can do a job here but he needs to find solutions fast or the media and support will tear him apart.

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