Liverpool FC Forum

Benny The Noon » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:58 pm wrote:Well it wasn't his first game but again he was either part of the back 5 who conceded goals or part of the attacking unit ( supposed to provide the width ) which struggled against ten men.

Don't concede those goals and we get three points today

We didn't take advantage enough of the ten men but our defending was just as culpable as the guys going forward

Not sure where this "Ali" is better than Enrique is from ? Is it after his performances for Valencia last season ?

Here is another bright assumption ,score 3 goals and we get the three points today. Under your formula Defense is always to blame for loss of points which is just silly.
What i'm saying is pretty easy to understand ,the way the first half ended ,We should have been at their throats from the first whistle ,Our attackers should have pressured the hell out of them and we should have at least show an intent of "killing" the game ,we didn't ,offence failed ,not because a lack of luck ,because a lack of will.

I've watched Cissokho play in Lyon ,Valencia and IMO he has better skill sets then enrique ,will he bring them to the pitch? Time will tell ,do i think he is a more complete player then Jose? Yes i do.

Again what I'm saying is the defending is just as culpable as the guys going forward.

Yes we didn't take advantage when they went down to ten men but we were also just as poor at the back. You don't concede 2 goals if you have defended well.

Skill sets ? Immaterial if he doesn't produce on the pitch and he hasn't for over two season now hence why IMO he was first shipped out of Lyon cheaply ( after they spent a great deal on him ) and then Valencia have let him go out on loan.

I think a number of people will tell you that he was very poor at Valencia. Enrique will perform better in the prem than Cissokho IMO and I fully expect him to go back to Valencia. Another player I wouldn't have signed in the summer and given the back up role to Robbo

only me » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:21 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:34 pm wrote:Good God we missed Lucas out there today ,just hope his wife isn't expecting triplets ,because I think the reds can only lay duck eggs without him.
It came as no surprise Liverpool's poorest performance this season coincided with the loss of the combative Lucas ,a player that is essential to Liverpool
establishing a grip on the game and a solid base in order for our front players to do what they do best.

The reds had no one out there to make life uncomfortable for Newcastle ,they were bereft of some one to break up play ,Henderson can proffer all the energy
he can muster ,but he simply hasn't the defensive qualities of Lucas. I actually thought we deserved nothing from that game ,and albeit for his hand in their
second goal I thought for a debut in the premier league Cissokho just comes behind Suarez and Gerrard as our best player.

In a game that had little to shout about ,I thought the moment of the game was Suarez's sublime ability  in bringing the ball under control to set up Sakho
who in all honesty should have scored....Other than that it was a weak arsed performance against a Newcastle team hardly brimming with quality.

Lucas????
We held the ball for 70%+++ of the time the whole 2nd half and you thought Lack of Lucas cost use the game? Must have seen another game.

Well its a cast iron certainty I don't watch the game from the rather slanted perspective you do my friend ,because the reds were frankly feeble right
through the middle ,and Newcastle prior to the dismissal of Mbiwa had maintained a comfortable control of our midfield and were slowly starting to put
our defence under concerted pressure.

Liverpool's overall play was disjointed and lacked any real substance or innovation ,and even after being handed the impetus and numerical advantage
there still never existed any real coherency between the players..... So I really don't see why exactly you persist with this ridiculous adherence to Liverpool
bossing that particular game.....As regards Lucas ,I suppose its a bit like being an antique salesman and seeing the real value of something when others
clearly don't .....So with that in mind, I clearly wont haggle with you over the price.

when it was 11 v 11 they were bossing the game, we couldnt string 3 passes together, nothing was sticking.
our midfield was getting outplayed - again

The way we played with that international hangover I'm glad to have got away point. Though gutted we couldn't  take 3 valuable away points against a second half 10 man side

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:28 pm wrote:

only me » Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:21 pm wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:34 pm wrote:Good God we missed Lucas out there today ,just hope his wife isn't expecting triplets ,because I think the reds can only lay duck eggs without him.
It came as no surprise Liverpool's poorest performance this season coincided with the loss of the combative Lucas ,a player that is essential to Liverpool
establishing a grip on the game and a solid base in order for our front players to do what they do best.

The reds had no one out there to make life uncomfortable for Newcastle ,they were bereft of some one to break up play ,Henderson can proffer all the energy
he can muster ,but he simply hasn't the defensive qualities of Lucas. I actually thought we deserved nothing from that game ,and albeit for his hand in their
second goal I thought for a debut in the premier league Cissokho just comes behind Suarez and Gerrard as our best player.

In a game that had little to shout about ,I thought the moment of the game was Suarez's sublime ability  in bringing the ball under control to set up Sakho
who in all honesty should have scored....Other than that it was a weak arsed performance against a Newcastle team hardly brimming with quality.

Lucas????
We held the ball for 70%+++ of the time the whole 2nd half and you thought Lack of Lucas cost use the game? Must have seen another game.

Well its a cast iron certainty I don't watch the game from the rather slanted perspective you do my friend ,because the reds were frankly feeble right
through the middle ,and Newcastle prior to the dismissal of Mbiwa had maintained a comfortable control of our midfield and were slowly starting to put
our defence under concerted pressure.

Liverpool's overall play was disjointed and lacked any real substance or innovation ,and even after being handed the impetus and numerical advantage
there still never existed any real coherency between the players..... So I really don't see why exactly you persist with this ridiculous adherence to Liverpool
bossing that particular game.....As regards Lucas ,I suppose its a bit like being an antique salesman and seeing the real value of something when others
clearly don't .....So with that in mind, I clearly wont haggle with you over the price.

I'm sorry my friend but i don't see the connection between your claim that Lucas was missing and the fact we held possession for 70%++ the 2nd half. Lucas main and only function is to break the other team play ,we didn't need his abilities because we HAD THE BALL ALL THE TIME ,we weren't creative ,committed ,bothered to do anything significant with it but we HELD IT ,HENCE LUCAS WAS NOT MISSING...If Lucas was playing i would have called for him to be replaced as our CM/DM had no work the whole 2nd half.

Unless you mixed your Brazilian up and was referring to Coutinho ,which in that case we totally agree.

Interesting little debate. Lucas is similar to Didi Hamann in that you don't appreciate what he does until he isn't there. Possession is not the only factor. Control is the key and we simply were not that good when we had the ball. Lucas takes players with him. He does a lot of stuff other than just break up play in exactly the same way as Didi used to do. Easy to try and simplify what wasn't a great performance by suggesting that one player would have made the difference. If Henderson had been on target and Suarez's phenomenal volley had gone in instead of hitting the bar we wouldn't be having this debate. I think the real problem was the pace of Liverpool's play after half time when we went 2-1 down. It was pedestrian and lacked any real bite. Bad day at the office and lucky to come away with a point.

Not really sure why we stuck with 3 at the back against ten men.

All in all this was two points dropped, especially after dominating the second half. If you concede such sloppy goals it's always going to be difficult though. Cabaye ran 20 yards unchallenged for his goal and the second goal you wouldn't see in sunday league football. The balance of the midfield is still a concern. Moses just doesn't fit in that formation.

Gerrard probably had his best game in a while and Suarez was the best player on the pitch again. On to West Brom next week which is now a massive game.

only me » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:26 am wrote:I'm sorry my friend but i don't see the connection between your claim that Lucas was missing and the fact we held possession for 70%++ the 2nd half. Lucas main and only function is to break the other team play ,we didn't need his abilities because we HAD THE BALL ALL THE TIME ,we weren't creative ,committed ,bothered to do anything significant with it but we HELD IT ,HENCE LUCAS WAS NOT MISSING...If Lucas was playing i would have called for him to be replaced as our CM/DM had no work the whole 2nd half.

Unless you mixed your Brazilian up and was referring to Coutinho ,which in that case we totally agree.

I think the only case we could possibly be in agreement about  is your excessive use of the upper variety when stressing your point of view ....Also your
flair for the dramatic is often prevalent in your posts.....We could agree on that I suppose,but sadly not football I'm afraid.

devaney » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:21 am wrote:Interesting little debate. Lucas is similar to Didi Hamann in that you don't appreciate what he does until he isn't there. Possession is not the only factor. Control is the key and we simply were not that good when we had the ball. Lucas takes players with him. He does a lot of stuff other than just break up play in exactly the same way as Didi used to do.

Spot on ,I personally found it a huge conundrum how fans completely missed Didi's contribution to our overall game ,and how vital he was to our structure.

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:33 pm wrote:

only me » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:26 am wrote:I'm sorry my friend but i don't see the connection between your claim that Lucas was missing and the fact we held possession for 70%++ the 2nd half. Lucas main and only function is to break the other team play ,we didn't need his abilities because we HAD THE BALL ALL THE TIME ,we weren't creative ,committed ,bothered to do anything significant with it but we HELD IT ,HENCE LUCAS WAS NOT MISSING...If Lucas was playing i would have called for him to be replaced as our CM/DM had no work the whole 2nd half.

Unless you mixed your Brazilian up and was referring to Coutinho ,which in that case we totally agree.

I think the only case we could possibly be in agreement about  is your excessive use of the upper variety when stressing your point of view ....Also your
flair for the dramatic is often prevalent in your posts.....We could agree on that I suppose,but sadly not football I'm afraid.

Well i guess when you start making argument based on facts i can give up the Upper case...Take Care.

OnlyMe - Your argument is so flawed it beggars belief. If Lucas had been playing it is very likely that Newcastle wouldn't have been able to take a punt from 30 yards and score - just a thought. It's a massive word if....

As I have said previously your criticism of Sturridge was ridiculously harsh and your view of Lucas is equally as bad.

Pretty unsatisfactory performance and result, but on the plus side had a great night out in Newcastle afterwards!

I've read a lot of criticism of our midfield, but in truth it was a poor team performance.  The defence were sloppy, we lacked ideas in midfield (especially when we were trying to break down their 10 men second half) and the movement up front wasn't great.  Suarez was as poor as I've seen him, but the mark of a class act is when he's playing badly, he still creates two goals.

Cissokho didn't look like a footballer.  He has to do better than that.  Moses can't play the role he's being asked in behind the strikers, he isn't subtle enough.  Johnson clearly wasn't match sharp.  Mignolet didn't have his best game.  I felt he could have done better with Cabaye's effort, although it did bounce awkwardly in front of him, and I felt he could have been more dominant and come and claimed the free kick that led to their second before it got as far as Dummett.  Gerrard could easily have seen red for a second yellow when he blocked off a Newcastle player breaking on us.

You have to look at that as 2 points dropped against 10 men.  But to be fair when they went 2-1 up that's the type of game we'd have lost this time last season, so at least we're picking up points when we're playing badly.  We deserved no more than a point in the end.

Overall, I don't think we have been great so far this season but to be honest, apart from Arsenal and possibly Man City, I haven't really seen great performances from the top 6 teams from last year so far this season. Manure obviously struggling and chelsea and spurs seem to be grinding out results rather than putting in great performances so I would say we are not alone when it comes to putting in top performances. Sure it will come as the season progresses but positive is we haven't hit top gear yet but still have a good yield of points