CHELSEA VS LIVERPOOL - Defining moment of this season

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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:38 am

dawson99 wrote:whats funny is how all the papers are today saying how Chelsea are playnig like they did under Moureen... were they really that good?
The game could have gone either way. but we cant rely on the usual moans... money, yanks or the players we should have brought.

I have to admit the fault here lies completely with Rafa. We have been free scoring with Stevie in midfield, yesterday masher and Lucas looked lost. Why did Benny not start?
I'm no Rafa basher, but he seems to be doing these things simply to proove that he can and hes betetr than what everyone else already knows. When Stevie was back in midfield we were rocking it, scoring goals.. ok letting them in, but playing some lovely football...

We are not out of it yet, and Cheatski aren't looking that great, but we need Aquilani and we need to start scoring more goals.

I agree. I think our problem was fundamentally playing too defensively. We gave them far too much respect. I have not seen Glen Johnson so defensive all season, pre-match they were talking about how Johnson would fair against Cole. He barely came in contact with him!

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Postby NANNY RED » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:06 am

Id say that this is a fair assesment of the Game tbh

Rafael Benitez must make improvements:

Oct 5 2009 by Dominic King, Liverpool Echo

HE asked his players to give him a headache, to provide him with a set of problems with which he would have to juggle for the remainder of the campaign.

Rafa Benitez used his pre-match press conference as a vehicle to motivate his players into getting a victory that would send expectations soaring.

Unfortunately for the Liverpool manager, the headache he is now trying to soothe is the one that he wanted the least.

Irked by a chastening Champions League experience in Florence five days earlier, Benitez had challenged his players to get the kind of victory against Chelsea that would put the momentum back in their campaign and leave him ‘trying to manage’ expectations.

Today, however, he is faced with the task of raising morale; while there was nothing wrong with Liverpool’s effort or application at Stamford Bridge, they find themselves being written of as title challengers once again after slipping to a 2-0 defeat.

Now that we have reached the first weekend in October with Liverpool having lost more games already than they did in the whole of the most recent campaign, it is inevitable that a wider audience will already be writing them off as also-rans.

True, it is going to be difficult to peg back a Chelsea team that had more nous in one or two areas but to say Liverpool are dead and buried after losing here would be as wide of the mark as it would have been to proclaim them as kings in waiting had they won.

There are, remember, 30 games still to play between now and next May; Chelsea still have to come to Anfield, Arsenal must be played home and away, as must both clubs from Manchester – there is ample time to build up a head of steam.

That said, Benitez will know – as will his players – that the small details in the fixtures that matter must be improved upon, otherwise the dreams of capturing that elusive 19th championship will end up being tossed and blown away.

Chelsea have been lauded since Carlo Ancelotti took over and there is no disputing that they do have some outstanding players but were they honestly streets ahead of Liverpool? Only the most blinkered would say ‘yes’.

As is so often the case in games of this magnitude, the opening exchanges were played out with the kind of deliberation and care that you would associate with a chess match, each side plotted and schemed, trying to find the slightest sign of an opening.

That Chelsea were unable to chisel a way through was down to the fact that the man often referred to as ‘The Little Chief’ was at his scampering, scurrying best, a figure of perpetual motion snuffing out danger at the first possible moment.

Some may rightly have questioned Javier Mascherano’s form in the opening weeks of the campaign, wondering what impact a summer transfer saga with Barcelona and Argentina’s laboured efforts to qualify for the World Cup have had on him.

His presence was sorely missed in Florence last Tuesday evening, however, and restored to his place just in front the back four, Mascherano was terrific, hustling, bustling and pestering anything that came his way clad in Blue.

One lunge on Michael Ballack early on close to the touchline, cleanly spiriting the ball of the German’s toe, proved his wellbeing following a hamstring problem – which made the mistake that led to Chelsea taking the lead all the more unfathomable.

Fatally dithering as he attempted to keep an attack going, Mascherano saw Michael Essien take the ball out of his reach and set Didier Drogba into the space Glen Johnson had vacated. From that point there was a wretched inevitability about what would happen.

Drogba’s ball was precise and once Nicolas Anelka – Gerard Houllier’s biggest mistake in the transfer market back in 2002, when he failed to sign the French striker on a permanent deal – had drifted in to space, he had the simple task of beating Pepe Reina

The way that goal was celebrated by Chelsea’s staff and players, and the way their opposite numbers slumped for a split second afterwards spoke volumes; it was almost as if everyone in the stadium knew at that point that the home side had reached checkmate.

Such a shame. If Mascherano deserved better, so too did Martin Skrtel and Jamie Carragher, who did their utmost to keep Drogba and Anelka quiet and, for 89 and half minutes, that’s just what they did.

Had it not been for that lapse, the 25th meeting in the five years that Benitez has been in charge at Anfield would, in all probability, have ended in a goal-less draw, as Chelsea’s defenders were the stars of their team.

Goals have been easy to come by for the Reds in most games this calendar year but here they struggled to get even the merest glimpse of Hilario’s goal, with John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho prepared to protect the stand-in keeper by fair means or foul.

Nothing, for example, went Dirk Kuyt’s way, Steven Gerrard – despite his best efforts – failed to find the kind of space from which he so often wreaks havoc, while Fernando Torres became more and more infuriated that a chance never came his way.

The best Liverpool could muster was a free-kick from Albert Riera on the stroke of half-time and an effort that Yossi Benayoun somehow dragged wide in the dying seconds, shortly after Florent Malouda had given the final score a flattering look.

So now the next two weeks will be spent licking wounds, rather than dreaming dreams but it must be remembered that this is not a fatal blow to ambitions and nobody at Anfield will be thinking that way. Yet they will also know improvements must be made once the next round of international fixtures are completed – otherwise Benitez could find himself with a headache that proves difficult to shift.
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Postby Rockthekop » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:08 am

Apart from giving the ball away for the goal, Mascherano had a good game.  You could see how much better we are with him in the team. 

Lucas on the other hand (who might I say didn't do anything wrong), take him out of the team and what are we missing? Absolutely nothing.  He's not a good player, he's incredibly average.

Why Rafa plays him is a mystery.  It often makes our team less effective since Gerrard has to fall back to make something happen thereby isolating Torres.

Kuyt is no world beater but you can see the contribution he makes to our team with his work rate and goals.  Players need to offer something other than prancing around like a big fairy.
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Postby Dazzer » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:19 am

dawson99 wrote:whats funny is how all the papers are today saying how Chelsea are playnig like they did under Moureen... were they really that good?
The game could have gone either way. but we cant rely on the usual moans... money, yanks or the players we should have brought.

I have to admit the fault here lies completely with Rafa. We have been free scoring with Stevie in midfield, yesterday masher and Lucas looked lost. Why did Benny not start?
I'm no Rafa basher, but he seems to be doing these things simply to proove that he can and hes betetr than what everyone else already knows. When Stevie was back in midfield we were rocking it, scoring goals.. ok letting them in, but playing some lovely football...

We are not out of it yet, and Cheatski aren't looking that great, but we need Aquilani and we need to start scoring more goals.

I felt same we set team up same for 3 games in row scoring freely then he changes it for CL and we lose 2-0 why keep it the same why not go back to way we played when we was scoring freely.

One of the guys on sky said something yesterday and I normaly think they talk :censored: but this hit home.He said "seems RAFA manages too much by numbers sometimes and not with his heart".Its bloody sad but I kinda think its true mostly.  :sniffle
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Postby Bad Bob » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:06 am

It seems pretty clear that Rafa just doesn't trust the defensive side of Stevie's game against quality clubs.  He's happy to play him at CM against the likes of Hull and Bolton but he's very reluctant to put him there against the Fiorentinas and Chelseas.  And, this isn't new.  We've seen it going all the way back to that Galatasaray match at Anfield in the CL group stages a few years back, where Rafa felt he had to bring on Sissoko to shore up the midfield when Stevie and the lads were bombing forward.  If he had his druthers, he'd keep Stevie in his free role behind Torres all the time.  Up there, Gerrard can focus on attacking and leave the mopping up to others.  At this stage, I'd be amazed to see him play the skipper in CM against a top 6 side.
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Postby dawson99 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:11 am

Bad Bob wrote:It seems pretty clear that Rafa just doesn't trust the defensive side of Stevie's game against quality clubs.  He's happy to play him at CM against the likes of Hull and Bolton but he's very reluctant to put him there against the Fiorentinas and Chelseas.  And, this isn't new.  We've seen it going all the way back to that Galatasaray match at Anfield in the CL group stages a few years back, where Rafa felt he had to bring on Sissoko to shore up the midfield when Stevie and the lads were bombing forward.  If he had his druthers, he'd keep Stevie in his free role behind Torres all the time.  Up there, Gerrard can focus on attacking and leave the mopping up to others.  At this stage, I'd be amazed to see him play the skipper in CM against a top 6 side.

thats the whole problem with Rafa tho, he worries so much about what other teams do, he wont do what is best for Liverpool.
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Postby TheLad » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:04 pm

dawson99 wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:It seems pretty clear that Rafa just doesn't trust the defensive side of Stevie's game against quality clubs.  He's happy to play him at CM against the likes of Hull and Bolton but he's very reluctant to put him there against the Fiorentinas and Chelseas.  And, this isn't new.  We've seen it going all the way back to that Galatasaray match at Anfield in the CL group stages a few years back, where Rafa felt he had to bring on Sissoko to shore up the midfield when Stevie and the lads were bombing forward.  If he had his druthers, he'd keep Stevie in his free role behind Torres all the time.  Up there, Gerrard can focus on attacking and leave the mopping up to others.  At this stage, I'd be amazed to see him play the skipper in CM against a top 6 side.

thats the whole problem with Rafa tho, he worries so much about what other teams do, he wont do what is best for Liverpool.

True... than maybe..  :idea  Rafa out!  :D   :lookaround
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Postby devaney » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:48 pm

I just thought I would add my comments before reading this thread!

Probably the best we have played this season apart from Rierra and Kuyt who both had poor games. Very unlucky not to have gone in the lead. Never under massive threat. A draw would have been a much fairer result. Mascha's dithering received a punishment that did not fit the crime as he had been having a very good game along with Lucas in their defensive midfield roles. Yes I did say Lucas and I am prepared to give credit where it is due. The big problem with the two of them is you get very little from them going forward. Torres missed a couple of very good chances which was a massive shame because he doesn't do a lot except score brilliant goals and that is not a criticism because I am a massive fan.

Rafa waited too long to bring on Benny as Rierra was really struggling to make an impact. Benny however made a huge difference and Chelsea were incredibly lucky to sustain the impressive onslaught and get another totally undeserved goal.

It's now 3 losses in 8 and no team has gone onto win the Prem after being in that position at this stage of the season. RECORDS ARE THERE TO BE BROKEN AND I WON'T GIVE UP HOPE YET. Aquilani could be just what we need! With just a little bit more coming from midfield yesterday we could probably have beaten any team in the world. We played some very impressive football.

Ok I'll now read the rest of the thread and see what everybody else thought!
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:05 pm

At half time I thought we'd get something from this game.But asthe second half went on and Gerrard's game became poorer and poorer. The hope of getting something from this game was diminishing rapidly. Gerrard was poor today and Torres was off the boil a little, this highlighted most LFC fans concerns. We simply huff n puff without our two best players 'running the show'.

I thought on the whole the team played well but our huffy and puffness was exhibited in the final third. We never really looked like getting the break through as the game went on. From this seasons form the only other player who I think could of tried to picke up the mantle that Torres and Gerrard had dropped was Yossi.

On that performance though a draw would of been a fair result. Had Mascharano not been sloppy in his passing I don't think Chelsea ever looked like creating something up until that point.

I think the defence looked a little better than they have been recently although the ole ticker was giving me palpatations from defending set-pieces.

Mascha had a decent game on the whole, Lucas played okay although I'm not sure what job he is supposed to actually doing alongside Mascha. At times (this season) he looks to me like a player that is just making the numbers up in midfield.

Shame this result though, Chelsea however never looked two goals better than us. I think the ref had been slipped a back hander, some of his decisions coaxed by the antics of Drogba had me spewing.

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Postby JamCar05 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:33 pm

Am naturally very disappointed that we lost this game. Especially as Chelsea really didn't have me worried (except perhaps for the set pieces but that had more to do with our own general inability at these so far this season) up until we gave away that silly first goal. Feel sorry for Masch as he played very well before that mistake, where he was our best player imo. But unfortunately such mistakes and how you manage to capitalize on them are most often how these games between Chelsea and us are won, and they sure were quick to punish us on that particular occasion :(.

Other than that I definitely thought we warranted a draw, although we didn't really produce any clear cut chances until it was too late (ie Benayoun). Neither did Chelsea though, and with a bit of luck/precision Torres could have scored when he sent it a bit wide with his left leg after a scramble in the box, and I also thought Johnson should at least have hit the target when he was set up nicely by Benayoun just outside the penalty area (I actually think he did better defensively than offensively this time around, as he got the better of Drogba on at least three occasions, whereas his crossing was most often straight at their keeper).

Regarding our much talked about defence in general I have to say they faired much better than previous, though Drogba did his usual trick on Carra for their second goal. Am still glad to see Agger back in contention though, so here's hoping he doesn't pick up an injury while away on international duty.

And so it isn't all gloom for me (I even thought Lucas did quite well breaking up their play, though I agree he offers far too little going forward), but we need some very good performances after the international break against difficult opposition, against which we haven't exactly done too well this season. Sunderland (away at that) is by no means a walkover as the mancs discovered, and we're already under a bit of pressure in the CL ahead of the game against Lyon, which is followed with a more or less must win at home against the mancs. Will be a tough run of games, where the players and Rafa will have to show their intentions, so please no injuries to Gerrard and Torres in the meantime.

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Postby kunilson » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:37 pm

i could not watch the match yesterday. found out the result and was gutted.

but i caught the replay today.

i thought both teams looked like they didnt want to take a risk. i was impressed with our defending, thought masch had a great game apart from the one slip up..
looked pretty toothless attacking-wise, up until they scored and started to let us come on to them for a while. but we just couldnt find a way through, they defended well.

we deserved a point out of that game, no-one deserved a win. the 2nd goal was just another lapse in concentration but credit to them they took their chances and we didn't take ours.

i agree that we should play more like a team who KNOWS they are good, and not worry about other teams as much....but we've had that problem for a while, it has been getting better though.......last season we put ourselves in a great position only to throw it away, we must do the opposite, have to win the big games and punish the destroy the smaller teams. has to be done. good time for an international break i think.


P.S drogba should be shot. their team has no class whatsoever and i dunno how he can look himself in the mirror.
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Postby Scottbot » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:29 pm

TheLad wrote:I must blame Benitez for this one. Should have started with Yossi in the hole behind Torres and Gerrard instead if Lucas pairing with Masch in the midfield.

It's unfair to stick the blame on any one individual for this game. We played well, Chelsea played well. One chance one goal and that was that unfortunately. I personally wanted to see Gerrard in the middle with Yossi in the hole, Riera out wide and Aureilio back at FB. Of course that didn't happen but it was a decent performance so it's naive (i think) to suggest changing one player here or there would have somehow changed the result, it's not as simple as that. Not a lot of credit has been given to Chelsea, they were simply excellent at the back. John Terry was comfortabally the best player on the park and Essien had a fantastic battle with Masha in the middle of the park. They were very good at the back and it was always gonna take something special to break them down, unfortunately we couldn't figure it out.
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Postby devaney » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:09 pm

Scottbot wrote:
TheLad wrote:I must blame Benitez for this one. Should have started with Yossi in the hole behind Torres and Gerrard instead if Lucas pairing with Masch in the midfield.

It's unfair to stick the blame on any one individual for this game. We played well, Chelsea played well. One chance one goal and that was that unfortunately. I personally wanted to see Gerrard in the middle with Yossi in the hole, Riera out wide and Aureilio back at FB. Of course that didn't happen but it was a decent performance so it's naive (i think) to suggest changing one player here or there would have somehow changed the result, it's not as simple as that. Not a lot of credit has been given to Chelsea, they were simply excellent at the back. John Terry was comfortabally the best player on the park and Essien had a fantastic battle with Masha in the middle of the park. They were very good at the back and it was always gonna take something special to break them down, unfortunately we couldn't figure it out.

Excellent post.Chelsea's defence was brilliant. They just hardly ever leak goals.just look at their record this season. I hate to say it but I think they are huge favourites for the title.

My only concern was how long it took Rafa to bring on Benny once it was obvious that Albert Rierra wasn't at his best. But who knows maybe that was part of the plan and fresh legs injecting pace for 25 minutes may well have worked if we hadn't conceded an unfortunate goal. Just a bit more from midfield and I think we can beat anybody. KEEP THE FAITH!
Net Spend Over The Last 5 Years (10 years
are in brackets)
LFC £255m (£467m)
Everton £38m (£287m)
Arsenal £645m6 (£925m)
Spurs £510m (£541m)
Chelsea £788m (£1007m)
Man City £307m (£1012m)
Man United £702m (£1249m)
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Postby NANNY RED » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:56 pm

The fella who stood out head an shoulders above everyone on the pitch for me yesterday was Essien , For me he made the difference between the 2 teams, Big lose for them when he goes off to the ANC, Forget yeh Lampard an that cheating T.wat of a player, This lad makes them tick, Lets see how they get on when hes gone ,
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Postby tubby » Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:15 pm

I bet he will probably get 'injured' before he is due to fly out and will end up not going. Either him or Drogba one of the 2 will try it.
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