Liverpool FC Forum

by **Nando26** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:45 am

TheLad wrote:Rafa, why not make a fuking change, what are you waiting for??? If you are clueless, let Sammy run the things!

Yeah coz Sammy sure knew what he was doin at Bolton :suspect:

by **LFC2007** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:52 am

bunglemark2 wrote:We still can't defend a ball in the air though. Bleedin' cack at it we are...Was watching Souness on TV over here analysing our defending for one of the goals. He was visibly cringeing trying to understand Rafa's sticking to his guns over this zonal marking lark....

Couldn't possibly be anything to do with execution or personnel.

by **Nando26** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:53 am

SupitsJonF wrote:
ken_job wrote:Im sick of following matches on this site...

Nothing but people insulting the team, the manager or eachother...never anything constructive.....goodbye

Debates often have 2 sides, what kind of boring debates are you having?

Can you honestly say the manager doesnt deserved to be questioned after leading a title contending side to 1 win in 3 games, and was working on his 3rd loss?

Exactly mate youve just said it there 3 :censored:

GAMES

Jesus Christ how fickle "supporters" r nowadays

by **Nando26** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:02 am

Effes wrote:
Nando26 wrote:
Nando26 wrote:3-0 Torres Gerrard Johnson

WHAT DID I SAY

Er - you said 3-0

hello *knock knock* anybody there

by **Reg** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:22 am

NANNY RED wrote:How was we im gaggin here .how did we play . someone give me the info please

Ship's steady Nan, rolling with the waves, absorbing the gusts. She's on course, sails pulling, some being fixed and reset, cargo restowed, crew sober, early storms ridden, experience gained, vessel and crew sound.

After 15% of the voyage, we're solid and found able, no fears unnecessarily raised.

by **Madmax** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:30 am

bigmick wrote:Anyway i think everyone would agree that once he moved into the centre of midfield the game changed, and thank God for him once again pulling us out of the sh!te with the winner.

That only happened when they went down to 10 men. If they still had 11 on the pitch i doubt gerrard would have performed well..

by **Octsky** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:29 am

the bolton players imo are quite a fair bunch of people.
during the process of sending off Davis, the players dont crowd around trying to influence the referee.
Imagine trying to send off a chelshit player or a mancs.
Shrek will threaten to explode and chelshit - walk out or riot.

by **Owzat** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:55 am

metalhead wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Anyone hearing Stevie talk now? He said there have been a lot of "meetings this week" and "people got things of their chest".

source?

I saw that interview, I think it was on SSN. He said it, don't doubt it for one minute. Made me think that there is a lack of harmony within the dressing room, bit of finger pointing and the blame game.

Much needed win, can't help thinking we'd have not won but for the red card with Lucas intervention. Can't help but think the reaction of Bolton's players and fans got us a booking shortly after, influencing the ref into feeling he had to book someone to even that one up. Funny how we were behind twice and still Rafa waits until the 63rd minute to make a change, maybe he really does think there is a "substitute window" like there is for transfers

Poor zonal marking execution again, Rafa may prefer it and some may say it is the perfect system, but if the players can't work it then a 'perfect system' isn't perfect. That said, our defence is makeshift with two of the back four not necessarily first choice. Having said that, the regular back four weren't/aren't exactly an inpenetrable wall, Skrtel played in both our defeats this season.

But there was some good moves up front, the problem is we are scoring enough, but conceding too many at the wrong time. We've scored nine in four games, but seven of those in winning and one in each of our two defeats. When we score just one goal in a league game we win only one in three, under Rafa it is four in nine but still not the kind of win ratio we need

Score One Goal

Premiership overall : P187 W62 D70 L55 (Won 33.16%)
Premiership under Rafa : P47 W21 D16 L10 (Won 44.68%)

10 of those 21 wins under Rafa came in 05/06, so we've won 1-0 in the league just 11 times in the other four seasons and four games under him.

Score One Goal Under Rafa

05/06 : P13 W10 D1 L2 (Won 76.92%)
Rest : P34 W11 D15 L8 (Won 32.35%)

I wonder if Reina has written off his golden glove chances for this season already, maybe he was one of those getting things off his chest

by **GYBS** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:09 am

I saw that interview, I think it was on SSN. He said it, don't doubt it for one minute. Made me think that there is a lack of harmony within the dressing room, bit of finger pointing and the blame game.

Or maybe the players realised they had been performing below par and decided to have a meeting about it to talk about it and decide to up their games a lot - thats how i see it .

by **skellyred71** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:35 pm

Nando26 wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
The_Rock wrote:The greek defender looks more clumsy than traore.....Another crappy signing.... And ppl wonder why we don't have enough $$$. If i was the owner, i wouldn't give benitez $$$ too.

Get rid of Lucas.....Get rid of Kuyt. Johnson does a better job than Kuyt as a RW.

Jesus......this is getting ridiculous. Benitez is screwing up my team.

Go back to watching wrestling football isnt your forte.

Yeah.......says the person who attacked benitez and kuyt last season....and now all of a sudden is their biggest fan.....

More importantly get rid of plastic little glory hunting tw@t fans like yourself!

The day you ever post something remotely positive or even anywhere near decent about LFC half the fuc'king forum will die of similtaneous heart attacks!

or his accounts been hacked

you really are a negative p rick arent you the rock, you have got to be a glory hunting t wat who has no idea about footie full stop or what is happening to our once beautiful game. MONEY has become the new idol and unluckily for us h and g are hawked up to the eyeballs and will not provide the financial backing rafa and the fans deserve, they are just bideing there time until they can sell on for profit!!!!

by **devaney** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:51 pm

Message to the The Rock! What the fk is your problem with Kuyt - he has won over nearly all of his critics - WHY THE FK IS IT TAKING YOU SO LONG TO NOTICE WHAT HE GIVES TO THE TEAM! He was one of the key reasons why we sustained a brilliant title winning challenge during the second half of last season!

As for your criticism of Benitez screwing up your team I think you need to take a few other factors into account!

by **Emerald Red** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:25 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Number 9 wrote:
GYBS wrote:
skellyred71 wrote:
GYBS wrote:Enjoy yourself skelly - your going to have so much fun here - wait till you meet the real negative people

what they get worse its just you follow the badge you show support were not some cockney or team from the midlands we support our team thru thick and thin, we dont go calling for the managers head every ten minutes and geting on players backs aint gonna improve there performance is it lad. thanks for the welcome though ta

spot on mate - unfortunately not all share your view and some seem more happy when critisizing our players/managers while praising our rivals

BTW I thought we played OK today but not great, our defence looks a bit and we are back to being unimaginative again, what happened to the team which finished last season so well, I miss it. Anyway we got the vital 3 points and that is the most important thing.

We still can't defend a ball in the air though. Bleedin' cack at it we are...Was watching Souness on TV over here analysing our defending for one of the goals. He was visibly cringeing trying to understand Rafa's sticking to his guns over this zonal marking lark....

Aye, and all of Souness' defences have all been rock solid, haven't they? People in glass houses, such as that clueless ballbag, shouldn't throw stones. None of them pundits, or even ex-managers, haven't a clue how zonal marking even works.

by **metalhead** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:43 pm

aCe' wrote:I thought Gerrard was absolutely embarrassingly poor for about 60mins or so today... Muamba played him out of the park and it didnt matter much whether Gerrard came deep to receive the ball or went high up to play as a second striker, he just wasnt able to have any sort of influence on the game... Davis gets sent off, Muamba lets Gerrard do his thing, and Gerrard is back to normal.... Didnt think he had a great game today or anything... Given the spaces Bolton provided us, and the fact that for the last 30mins of the game all they did was retreat deeper into their territory, i thought Gerrard (Torres and Benny too) should have done much better... He missed the target a few times when he had space and time from excellent positions...

When it comes to other players, i thought Mascherano, Lucas, and Kuyt could have all offered more in the first 60mins or so of the game.. Kuyt had very little to do down the right and most of his work came from deeper areas.. thought his performance improved drastically after the sending off (as someone said, we look like world beaters against lower table sides with 10men) and he did very well to setup Torres today... Mascherano should have ventured forward a little more given that Gerrard was getting marked out of the game and elected to come deep to try and lose his marker more often than not. He didnt, not with any authority anyways.. Lucas is a funny one, he didnt have a bad game, but he wasnt impressive either... Was tidy (seems to be his middle name) but lacked creativity and i thought he too should have gone forward to recieve the ball higher up more than he did.. he didnt miss many passes (probably why Rafa kept him on the pitch instead of Mascherano) and didnt make any big mistakes... still think the midfield pairing isnt working and the longer we persist with it, the more likely it is we'll drop more and more points sooner or later...

Which brings us to the defense... Many seem to be slagging off the new Greek, personally, i think Cara was much worse... there isnt much to be said there... theyre simply not performing to top standards and until they do, we'll keep leaking points... its one of the main worries in the long run imo... Zonal marking and all that is a funny one... we just cant seem to get the hang of it... our players are too static at times and its cost us yet and again.. wat is it now, 3 or 4 goals in 4 games... unacceptable... start with the basics and have 2 men on the posts ffs...

Hmm.. I thought lucas was his same old self, his tracking back was awful, he just doesn't throw himself into tackles or defend properly (for a holding midfielder), plus he gave away silly freekicks in silly areas, goes to complain to the ref that it wasn't a foul when he knows it is and just passes sideways or backwards, its just not good enough. Mascherano is looking poor beside him, he just doesn't compliment him and we are looking like a one dimensional side when the two play together. On the other hand, after 60 min, Gerrard moved back to central midfield and he started playing really well there. Torres had a good game, some of his link up play and passes were really good and he scored an excellent goal as well.

Agreed with you about the defence, we are in deep :censored:

if we don't work it out, i'm worried what will happen in the future, and I don't think Agger or Skrtel will make any difference when come back. I remember having Hyppia at his peak with Carra at his peak playing together in the back four, with zonal marking and we conceded so little goals. Its all about quality that makes the zonal marking work, and we don't have that.

by **aCe'** » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:17 pm

metalhead wrote:
aCe' wrote:I thought Gerrard was absolutely embarrassingly poor for about 60mins or so today... Muamba played him out of the park and it didnt matter much whether Gerrard came deep to receive the ball or went high up to play as a second striker, he just wasnt able to have any sort of influence on the game... Davis gets sent off, Muamba lets Gerrard do his thing, and Gerrard is back to normal.... Didnt think he had a great game today or anything... Given the spaces Bolton provided us, and the fact that for the last 30mins of the game all they did was retreat deeper into their territory, i thought Gerrard (Torres and Benny too) should have done much better... He missed the target a few times when he had space and time from excellent positions...

When it comes to other players, i thought Mascherano, Lucas, and Kuyt could have all offered more in the first 60mins or so of the game.. Kuyt had very little to do down the right and most of his work came from deeper areas.. thought his performance improved drastically after the sending off (as someone said, we look like world beaters against lower table sides with 10men) and he did very well to setup Torres today... Mascherano should have ventured forward a little more given that Gerrard was getting marked out of the game and elected to come deep to try and lose his marker more often than not. He didnt, not with any authority anyways.. Lucas is a funny one, he didnt have a bad game, but he wasnt impressive either... Was tidy (seems to be his middle name) but lacked creativity and i thought he too should have gone forward to recieve the ball higher up more than he did.. he didnt miss many passes (probably why Rafa kept him on the pitch instead of Mascherano) and didnt make any big mistakes... still think the midfield pairing isnt working and the longer we persist with it, the more likely it is we'll drop more and more points sooner or later...

Which brings us to the defense... Many seem to be slagging off the new Greek, personally, i think Cara was much worse... there isnt much to be said there... theyre simply not performing to top standards and until they do, we'll keep leaking points... its one of the main worries in the long run imo... Zonal marking and all that is a funny one... we just cant seem to get the hang of it... our players are too static at times and its cost us yet and again.. wat is it now, 3 or 4 goals in 4 games... unacceptable... start with the basics and have 2 men on the posts ffs...

Hmm.. I thought lucas was his same old self, his tracking back was awful, he just doesn't throw himself into tackles or defend properly (for a holding midfielder), plus he gave away silly freekicks in silly areas, goes to complain to the ref that it wasn't a foul when he knows it is and just passes sideways or backwards, its just not good enough. Mascherano is looking poor beside him, he just doesn't compliment him and we are looking like a one dimensional side when the two play together. On the other hand, after 60 min, Gerrard moved back to central midfield and he started playing really well there. Torres had a good game, some of his link up play and passes were really good and he scored an excellent goal as well.

Agreed with you about the defence, we are in deep if we don't work it out, i'm worried what will happen in the future, and I don't think Agger or Skrtel will make any difference when come back. I remember having Hyppia at his peak with Carra at his peak playing together in the back four, with zonal marking and we conceded so little goals. Its all about quality that makes the zonal marking work, and we don't have that.

Yep... Lucas had an average game at best and didnt really influence proceedings at any point... The fact that Mascherano more often than not feels the need to take the ball upfield himself or look for the harder pass rather than do what he normally does and pass it to the guy next to him is the biggest indication that we seem to be struggling to get the ball out of the midfield areas... Either takes too long to get it forward, or it just doest go forward through the middle..

Gerrard coming deeper could be for one of two reasons... Either Rafa asked him to, or he just felt he needed to take things into his own hands since he wasnt getting the service from the midfield duo... He did well after Davis was sent off, but before that he was by large nonexistent ...

Thought torres did well in linking up too, his touch certainly improved big time on what hes shown in the first 3 games and the fact that he continues scoring is testament to his quality...

When it comes to our defense, i think Agger will improve the side dramatically... In terms of bringing the ball out from the back and keeping composure in the back, the guy is top class.. Defensively he's not the best around (neither is Carra, Skrtel is nowhere near) but he can get the job done if the other elements are clicking... With him and Aquilani back in the side i think we'll have a different look about us... certainly going forward, we'll look a much better side... Didnt think the Greek fella did too bad.. Certainly no worse than Skrtel normally does in the defensive end, and going forward he seems to be a good option from set pieces...

We still have a few issues that need addressing but for now with the fixtures coming up looking like winnable ones, we need to focus on getting the 3 points and hoping Aquilani, Agger and Riera are fit for when things start to get interesting with us near the top...

by **SupitsJonF** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:54 am

Nando26 wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:
ken_job wrote:Im sick of following matches on this site...

Nothing but people insulting the team, the manager or eachother...never anything constructive.....goodbye

Debates often have 2 sides, what kind of boring debates are you having?

Can you honestly say the manager doesnt deserved to be questioned after leading a title contending side to 1 win in 3 games, and was working on his 3rd loss?

Exactly mate youve just said it there 3 GAMES

Jesus Christ how fickle "supporters" r nowadays

I'm sure 2 losses and 1 win is acceptable if your Everton, but this is Liverpool.

Where did I say rafa out? I said he needs to be questioned, because fact is 4 games in we still look like :censored:

(stoke game aside) and without improving we're going no where in this league. It's not fickle and don't question my support.

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