Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I think that Torres will go out because Forlan is very near, and nobody pay 20.000.000€ for a striker with Torres and Aguero in your team. And our economy is not very well to pay this. I have read that Torres is a man of 15 goals for season. Well, but you only have to see who play with Torres. An example, Samuel Eto'o when he played in Mallorca, he was a man of 13 goals for year, now, with Ronaldinho, Messi, Deco, etc, he score 25.

Not to be greedy but how good is Aguero now and how much would he cost?

[Bad Bob]

Hola Colchonero, another Spaniard (from San Sebastian) here. Be welcome.

Well I just was warning my friends around here not to put too much hopes in Torres being the mesiah of strikers. I think he has dribling, pace, and skill but when it comes to finnish he's not that kind of killer many people are waiting for.

If you think the opposite the people will be happy to hear it.

I have an in depth question for you. Torres is a 23 year old player and still young, what would you say it's been the major improvement in his game in the last 4 years? what aspects of his game has he improved?

Hola Sabre. Well, this year, Torres has scored almost all the 1 vs 1 with the goalkeeper. This is one of is improvements. Now, he see the play much better than years ago, he knows when he has to do a thing a when has to tho the other. The principal problem of Torres is that in many times, he had to take the ball in the middle of the field, ¿to haggle? 4 or 5 opponetns and score. It is imposible. I think that with better player around of Torres He would be one of the most importants players in the wolrd. The only player that has been in a level seem Torres is Maxi Rodriguez, the others very far, and it is very difficult play when the other team knows that you are the 90% of the team.

First of all, welcome mate and thanks for your input.

You've raised an interesting point here about Torres's mentality at AM.  As the main man, so to speak, he probably feels like he has to do everything.  Sometimes that comes off and he carries the team on his back while other times he fails to find his form because he's looking to do the impossible every time he touches the ball.  Is that what you're saying?

If so, to me that sounds an awful lot like someone else we know.  Gerrard used to feel like he had to do everything for the team: win the ball, beat defenders, create, score, etc.  Undoubtedly he had the talent to do all of those things well but, in not trusting his teammates and in trying to do it all himself, he sometimes negated his own talent.  Remember his first season under Rafa?  He was still trying to do it all and Rafa really had to work with him to get him to focus his skills and trust his teammates.  We saw the fruits of that last season, where Gerrard had a fantastic season as part of a team rather than as a one-man gang.

Now, I'm not saying Torres is at or ever will be at Gerrard's level but I wonder if the same pressures are there for him at AM.  Perhaps a move to Anfield, where he'll be just another spoke in the wheel so to speak, is precisely what the lad needs to focus his game and take it to the next level?  (Or is that just so much wishful thinking? )

[Bad Bob]

I think that Torres will go out because Forlan is very near, and nobody pay 20.000.000€ for a striker with Torres and Aguero in your team. And our economy is not very well to pay this. I have read that Torres is a man of 15 goals for season. Well, but you only have to see who play with Torres. An example, Samuel Eto'o when he played in Mallorca, he was a man of 13 goals for year, now, with Ronaldinho, Messi, Deco, etc, he score 25.

Not to be greedy but how good is Aguero now and how much would he cost?

Is this just to win our debate, Saint? 

Incidentally, I'll hopefully get a chance to see Aguero live next week when I watch the U-20 Argies in Ottawa.  I'll ask him then if he fancies a move to Anfield!

[f9Torres]

I think that Torres will go out because Forlan is very near, and nobody pay 20.000.000€ for a striker with Torres and Aguero in your team. And our economy is not very well to pay this. I have read that Torres is a man of 15 goals for season. Well, but you only have to see who play with Torres. An example, Samuel Eto'o when he played in Mallorca, he was a man of 13 goals for year, now, with Ronaldinho, Messi, Deco, etc, he score 25.

Not to be greedy but how good is Aguero now and how much would he cost?

I think that Aguero will be one of the best players in the world, but not yet. He is only 18, he has to learn a lot of things. I don`t know how of true is this, but somebody says that he loves the night...it is a problem whe you are in this age... Atletico de Madrid pay to Independiente de Avellaneda 23.000.000€ (well, for this moment only 15) and if somebody pay 36.000.000€ Aguero is free, but nobody pay that for this player now.

[destro]

IMO I just don't think Owen will ever play a full season for any team again because he is injury prone.

Injury prone !  He has ruptured his cruciate ligament and  broken his metatarsal do they make him injury prone, two freak accidents, Gerrard broke his metatarsal and had problems with his back is he injury prone ?

Yes Owen has had a couple of hamstring injuries but loads of players with blistering pace have have suffered with those, Henry 16 million  , Overmaars  25 million to name two.

Goalkeepers constantly suffer from sprained wrists,dislocated fingers etc,etc because it is a part of the body they rely on to perform at the best level,  are they injury prone ?

Owen, just like many other players with pace, puts the most strain on his hamstrings,leg muscles and he has suffered a few times because of it, it doesnt make him injury prone. Take away the two major freak accidents and his injury record isn't that alarming.

I had a look at his goals to games played.... games/goals:  216 / 118
Total LFC games/goals:  297 / 158   and in his 12 or so games for Newcastle he has scored 7 times ! ( while being injury proned ) 

[f9Torres]

Hola Colchonero, another Spaniard (from San Sebastian) here. Be welcome.

Well I just was warning my friends around here not to put too much hopes in Torres being the mesiah of strikers. I think he has dribling, pace, and skill but when it comes to finnish he's not that kind of killer many people are waiting for.

If you think the opposite the people will be happy to hear it.

I have an in depth question for you. Torres is a 23 year old player and still young, what would you say it's been the major improvement in his game in the last 4 years? what aspects of his game has he improved?

Hola Sabre. Well, this year, Torres has scored almost all the 1 vs 1 with the goalkeeper. This is one of is improvements. Now, he see the play much better than years ago, he knows when he has to do a thing a when has to tho the other. The principal problem of Torres is that in many times, he had to take the ball in the middle of the field, ¿to haggle? 4 or 5 opponetns and score. It is imposible. I think that with better player around of Torres He would be one of the most importants players in the wolrd. The only player that has been in a level seem Torres is Maxi Rodriguez, the others very far, and it is very difficult play when the other team knows that you are the 90% of the team.

First of all, welcome mate and thanks for your input.

You've raised an interesting point here about Torres's mentality at AM.  As the main man, so to speak, he probably feels like he has to do everything.  Sometimes that comes off and he carries the team on his back while other times he fails to find his form because he's looking to do the impossible every time he touches the ball.  Is that what you're saying?

If so, to me that sounds an awful lot like someone else we know.  Gerrard used to feel like he had to do everything for the team: win the ball, beat defenders, create, score, etc.  Undoubtedly he had the talent to do all of those things well but, in not trusting his teammates and in trying to do it all himself, he sometimes negated his own talent.  Remember his first season under Rafa?  He was still trying to do it all and Rafa really had to work with him to get him to focus his skills and trust his teammates.  We saw the fruits of that last season, where Gerrard had a fantastic season as part of a team rather than as a one-man gang.

Now, I'm not saying Torres is at or ever will be at Gerrard's level but I wonder if the same pressures are there for him at AM.  Perhaps a move to Anfield, where he'll be just another spoke in the wheel so to speak, is precisely what the lad needs to focus his game and take it to the next level?  (Or is that just so much wishful thinking? )

Yes, waht you say is true. He is the only player in the first team that knows all the AM history, the only who knows about the AM "glorioso". He plays for the team that he loves since 1994. Is the only player that loves the team like a fan of Vicente Calderon. He has refused every year go out to teams that play Champios League, because he wants to help AM go to the place that deserves for his history. I think that the best word to explain that is anxiety. Play with some of the best players (Gerrard, Alonso, Kuyt), other palyer that have at least the same responsability, will help him.

[LFC2007]

Injury prone !  He has ruptured his cruciate ligament and  broken his metatarsal do they make him injury prone, two freak accidents, Gerrard broke his metatarsal and had problems with his back is he injury prone ?

Despite disagreeing with the statement of that member, the cruciate ligament injury definitely makes him more injury prone - more so than most other serious injuries, once your knee gets injured in that way it never returns to what it was.

[destro]

Maybe but until he plays without a re-occurance of the cruciate injury or anything  related to it we will not know, it is therefore unfair and  unjustifiable to label him  injury prone  on that basis , it was his most serious injury and hes only recently, in terms of games come back from it ( and not broken down due to it.. yet ). 7 goals in 12 or so games not including Internationals and still going

[LFC2007]

It's not unfair or unjustfiable, it's a medical fact that once your knee degrades or has been injured like that it never returns to the state it was previously. I'd say an anc ligament injury is much worse than a broken leg and makes a player a lot more prone to injury because of it. I know it's only one injury, but there are few worse than it, and he has a history of Hamstring problems in the past. Hamstring injuries or weak quadriceps can be a cause of knee injuries - fact. Nevertheless he's made a recovery, he appears to be fitter than ever - so I expect him to perform just as he's always done. If a little slower because of the injury and age. All I'm saying is the risk is higher because of such a serious injury, much higher than what a metatarsal injury would cause.

[destro]

I dont know any medical facts about ( and i cant be a,rsed Googling it either ) What i do know is that players have come back from it.

Roy Keane in 1997 suffered a cruciate injury, He was never the same player again and only had a short career after it  

So  the 'Medical facts" were wrong on that occasion! Label him injury prone if he suffers from now on but not from what has happened previously, you can guess he may be injury prone but until it happens it is just guess work and assumptions

[The Grudge]

I dont know any medical facts about ( and i cant be a,rsed Googling it either ) What i do know is that players have come back from it.

Roy Keane in 1997 suffered a cruciate injury, He was never the same player again and only had a short career after it  

So  the 'Medical facts" were wrong on that occasion! Label him injury prone if he suffers from now on but not from what has happened previously, you can guess he may be injury prone but until it happens it is just guess work and assumptions

I agree that Owen may be injury prone.I also feel that is why other teams are not banging on the door to buy him.
Cruciate ligament is one of the worst injurys a player can get and is notorious for re occuring..it has ended more careers than any other injury.

Injuries aside Michael Owen will never be the player he was FACT!

Also he would only be a short term fix...We dont need an Owen like he is now we need a player like Owen was when he was the best bar none!

Red Legend as he is...there is no time for sentiment!

[destro]

Injuries aside Michael Owen will never be the player he was FACT!

Fact ? really and on what do you base that, lets look at the FACTS since the injury shall we, goals per games for Newcastle so far ? Does that suggest that he will never be the same, does it look like he has lost the knack of scoring goals ? NO 

The only FACT is that its your opinion that he wont be the same !

[LFC2007]

The medical facts weren't wrong on that occassion, the medical facts remain that once you have a cruciate knee ligament injury your knee is never as strong and is more prone to injury again. Keane was never as mobile in his latter years as he had been in previous years, maybe the degeneration of his knee was part of the reason for this.

Owen has had a history of being injury prone, his hamstring injuries were repetetive and although his knee injury was unfortunate the medical facts remain, his knee will never be the same as it once was, I'm not saying he's an obsolete talent because of it. I'm saying his knee will be more prone from now on, so the risk is greater than before the injury. It's not guess work and assumptions, it's very common for players to retire due to knee injuries and the degrading of the knee ligaments.

Cruciate ligament injuries don't always recur, but they do make the knee more prone to future injury - Pires for example.

[The Grudge]

Injuries aside Michael Owen will never be the player he was FACT!

Fact ? really and on what do you base that, lets look at the FACTS since the injury shall we, goals per games for Newcastle so far ? Does that suggest that he will never be the same, does it look like he has lost the knack of scoring goals ? NO 

The only FACT is that its your opinion that he wont be the same !

The facts are mate that 90% of players that suffer his type of injury are shadows of their former selves when they return!

The facts are that a very high percentage of people that suffer this injury suffer re occurances the rest of their playing days and are often playing with pain at the very least and if they are lucky!

The facts are that Michael Owen is a vey risky prospect for any team to take a chance on and that is why no one is chasing him...Newcastle are happy because they are clutching at straws as Obefemi Martins has been good but basically a flop and not the replacement for Shearer they hoped for in Owens absence.Michael Owen is their only hope.

The facts are that Michael Owen has had his days in the red shirt and those days are over.

He could have stayed on and been up there with Rush in the greats,sadly you can blame a certain Frenchman on the fact that he is not!

[LFC2007]

Cue