Liverpool FC Forum

[Ade]

Just want to clarify that I think 12 league goals would be a very good start for Torres in his 1st season if he signs. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but I dont think we should be looking at the transfer figure so much when evaluating his season IF he does ok.

I dont think this deal will make or brake Rafa. And I just cant see us doing as bad as last year in the league. I would not be surprised to see the 14 million transfer record broken another 3 times around this time next year. Which to me means more class and less pressure on the players coming in for these prices.

An important point by mungi by saying that more will follow Torres if he signs. I dont think Rafa will buy all superstars and houshold football names but Im sure in the future he will be going for one or two, and this transfer lets the world know we can get these players.

I think this IS a crucial deal for Rafa - not so much cos it's Torres, and whether his success or failure is the clincher, but what is crucial is that Rafa should have done better in the league over the past 2 seasons (yeah yeah, highest points total ever, but the Big 4 vs the rest equals one of the least competitive leagues ever). He's had the players to get closer to the top two - not to win it, but to  challenge, and at least beat the mediocre teams along the way. He hasn't done that.

Now he needs to step it up, and he himself has made a big song and dance about how we're at a critical stage in our development. He's been demanding the big bucks from the Yanks. Now, if he spends c25m on Torres, this player has to deliver - cos Rafa is putting his mouth where the Yanks' money is.

Torres plus one class winger might give us the ammo to run the Mancs and Chelsea much closer next year. If Rafa doesn't get close, the pressure will be on, not least cos the owners will think twice about backing his judgment to buy in world-class, £20m+ players in future.

[Wilhelmsson]

You're writting some good stuff in your first posts Wilhelmson

I gather the team he is playing for a club which isn’t one of the most dominant teams in Spain, so there is time for this to change. If Cisse can score 19 goals for Liverpool, then there is no reason Torres cannot score more because he seems to be a much better player than Cisse (he had best be if he costs £27m).

However, I must point out that Atletico hasn't been dominant in the pitch, but when it comes to spending budget mate, they've been about next to Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Atletico Madrid might be upper or lower in the table, but they're IMHO the third team in size in Spain. Sevilla, for instance, has been spot on in the buys and the sells, and have done great deals like selling Sergio Ramos to Madrid, but they're a smaller team than Atletico when it comes to budget. Next year for instance, Atletico is going to spend about 40M € in signing ups, which will be more than Villareal, Sevilla, Zaragoza, or even Valencia.

Hello and Thank you, it’s very nice of you to praise me.

Thank you for the additional information, from what you have told me would it be an inaccurate statement to call them Spain’s equivalent to Newcastle United? 

[Happy-Punter]

I agree with what you say Ade. I just cant see us doing bad this year in the league. Im sure we will be close. Rafa would have learned a few things from the previous two seasons, I trust the fella.

[Wilhelmsson]

I know this is a Torres post but replying to your Owen discussion.  Owen had the chance to join us from Real Madrid but he chose the option of going to Newcastle for more money.

You need to stop thinking of Owen in his hay day knocking goals in for fun because he isn't that player now.  He is to injury prone and we need to move on.

I think Torres will be a good buy and will be looking forward to watching play in a red shirt.

I don’t understand why Owen is such a bitter pill to swallow, if the anti-Owen fans can put their dislike (or in extremes cases their hate) to one side for a moment then they’d realise Owen for £9m would be an absolute snip.

The “Owen is past his best” comments and statements are incorrect; he may not be able to bolt like a horse from one end of the pitch to the other, but he still has that instinct to score goals, he’ll never lose that. I have also never understood the point regarding the striker needing a high level of pace and agility in order to be considered a top class player.

Owen is and will always score goals, he will and always will be that little intelligent player who creates something out of nothing, he’ll always be that player who pops up and delivers the goods when needed, and these attributes cannot be taken away from him.

I accept and share the concern about his recent injuries however he is confident he is back to full health and in the few matches he played in for Newcastle and England; he looked fit and healthy (though this is not an ideal or realistic indication of his fitness). He’ll need match time (which he’s going to get) to find his feet and get back into the groove of things. If I was Rafa, I’d activate his buy-out clause and sign him for £9m, because if we don’t, then someone else will.

[Ade]

I agree with what you say Ade. I just cant see us doing bad this year in the league. Im sure we will be close. Rafa would have learned a few things from the previous two seasons, I trust the fella.

Hope you're right mate. I'm  a big fan of his, but i get the feeling he's not the quickest to adapt. This coming season will show us whether he's got what it takes, i think

[Bad Bob]

Not to be the thread police, lads, but this whole Owen debate has been going strong for a while OVER HERE.  Let's keep focused on Torres in this thread.

(BTW, and for what it's worth, I think we should get them both...I'm sure we could afford it and they could take the new-striker-must-produce pressure off each other )

[KRobbo10]

Wilhelmsson I understand what you saying and agree with it, I am not a anti owen fan.  If Owen was to sign for Liverpool I would be happy but I would prefer fresh blood and I think Torres sounds like a player we are missing up front.

[Wilhelmsson]

Apologies, Bob. There are numerous problems with signing both players. A) No one knows what the situation is regarding the size of the transfer budget. B) If we do sign Torres and Owen, it will leave Rafa with a selection headache. I know Rafa likes to rotate, but how on earth you can rotate, Voronin, Crouch, Kuyt, Torres and Owen? To me it would have to be between Torres and Owen and the likely answer from most will be Torres. C) You said yourself, that there are other positions that need added depth.

[Wilhelmsson]

Wilhelmsson I understand what you saying and agree with it, I am not a anti owen fan.  If Owen was to sign for Liverpool I would be happy but I would prefer fresh blood and I think Torres sounds like a player we are missing up front.

I understand what you are saying and I too believe we can get younger talent who will give us the best years of their careers if they prove to be a great signing an example of this would be Fernando Torres who Rafa rates highly as do the members on here (who I presume watch more Spanish football than me). I’m not intelligent at expressing myself, but I was speaking both directly to you and indirectly to anyone else who can be bothered to read my posts.

Owen for £9m is a snip and one I wouldn’t shun at. Whether or not Rafa does remains to be seen, I would think Owen has burnt all his bridges with regards to Benitez, but you can never be entirely sure, as the world works in mysterious ways.

The problem I have with the Owen situation is one of “what happens if he moves to somewhere like Arsenal and starts scoring for fun?”, if this was to happen I’d kick myself in the gentiles, especially if he starts knocking them in for either Newcastle or another club.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

27 mill for Torres or 20 mill for Martins and Owen from the Toon...I'd take the two magpies anyday. Owen will bang in the goals given the chances and he enjoys playing with someone who will win headers (Shearer, Heskey and Crouch for england) and Martins is around the same age as Torres and has proven he is top quality, plus that deal will save us 7 million.

[King Dogleash]

correct me if im wrong but i thought torres was more of a right sided attacking winger in the mould of say Cristiano ROnaldo, so that would leave room for Owen too, and lets face it, fit for a whole season or not, none of the 1st team apart from Carragher, reina, gerrard, and agger are gonna play every game, so that suits owen down to the ground with his dodgy body.
So all the stikers get a go cos they`re gonna be rotated all the time.
9 mill for a half fit owen is a snip, not gonna lose any if ya sell after one season either cos someone will snap him up! hes not the answer, but he will score goals and if Robbie was given a chance why not Owen too?
As for Torres hes one of the best prospects around, we cant keep letting them go to other teams, and keep picking up stop gaps!

[Sabre]

correct me if im wrong but i thought torres was more of a right sided attacking winger in the mould of say Cristiano ROnaldo, so that would leave room for Owen too, and lets face it, fit for a whole season or not, none of the 1st team apart from Carragher, reina, gerrard, and agger are gonna play every game, so that suits owen down to the ground with his dodgy body.

That's not quite correct. Luis Aragones did put him as a striker from the left under a 4-3-3, but I have never seen him playing in the Ronaldo role.

In my view squad depth is important, and if Torres can be the replace for Bellamy's pace (with more skill), Owen can be the replacement for Fowlers' finnishing.

Voronin? well, just in case there's lots of injuries.

[Ace Ventura]

27 mill for Torres or 20 mill for Martins and Owen from the Toon...I'd take the two magpies anyday. Owen will bang in the goals given the chances and he enjoys playing with someone who will win headers (Shearer, Heskey and Crouch for england) and Martins is around the same age as Torres and has proven he is top quality, plus that deal will save us 7 million.

Martins is about 46 but has one of them blag passports that you can buy from all good nigerian embassies 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Voronin, he is certainly been brought in as a squad player because he isn't exactly prolific.

[SouthCoastShankly]

correct me if im wrong but i thought torres was more of a right sided attacking winger in the mould of say Cristiano ROnaldo, so that would leave room for Owen too, and lets face it, fit for a whole season or not, none of the 1st team apart from Carragher, reina, gerrard, and agger are gonna play every game, so that suits owen down to the ground with his dodgy body.
So all the stikers get a go cos they`re gonna be rotated all the time.
9 mill for a half fit owen is a snip, not gonna lose any if ya sell after one season either cos someone will snap him up! hes not the answer, but he will score goals and if Robbie was given a chance why not Owen too?
As for Torres hes one of the best prospects around, we cant keep letting them go to other teams, and keep picking up stop gaps!

wrong