Liverpool FC Forum

[dundreamin]

He,s still the heartbeat of the team. It will be a sad day when he hangs up his boots. I just hope and pray that we win the prem before he does I know it's a big ask but you never know that's why we love the game because it's so unpredictable and if anyone deserves that medal Stevie does

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Firstly ,I don't believe anyone has suggested Gerrard's career as a Liverpool midfielder is finished,so it would be decidedly refreshing if posters stopped
collating his considerable qualities and started taking notice of the debilitating effect of playing a full 90 minutes week in week out is having on those
famous legs.

All people are saying is he needs to recuperate his strength in order to be even half the player we all know he can be.

[Stu the Red]

And in reply to that RED what other people are saying is we don't have the quality to manage him properly. That is the point.

We all know at 33 he's not what he was, we all know he can't perform for 90 minutes every match, we all know he needs to be looked after and occassionally taken off after 65 minutes or so, we would all love it if we had the strength to save his legs when possible.

But the alternatives do not fill people with any amount of confidence.

I'd rather go into a game with a patched up one legged Gerrard than a fully fit Lucas and Henderson. Gerrard offers something, even when playing poorly he can pull a team out of the Sh*t by scoring a goal or setting one up. Lucas and Henderson, for most... offer nothing. Henderson runs around alot and does absolutely tones of nothing, he occassionally makes a decent run forward and occassionally gets his positioning right defensively, but in 3 years I've never seen the lad intercept a pass, dominate a midfield, win a few tackles in a match, win headers, dribble past anyone, score important goals... etc etc etc. The odd worldy aside, he's done very very little, and Lucas is pretty much the same. The lad throws in regular tackles, but his lack of reading of the game makes him appear slow and leads to him getting booked all the time... Gerrard even at his age now will probably score twice as many goals and set twice as many up as those two put together this season as well.

Now I understand its not "just about goals", but the fact is, has been pointed out by others, he's the best tackler, passer and leader we have still.

As I said earlier, last 10 minutes, 0-0... I'd rather the ball fall to a ***** Steven Gerrard 25 yards out than either of the "alternatives"... if you can call them that....

[Benny The Noon]

That's if ten mins from time Gerrard has the energy left to be 25 yards from goal - not seen much evidence of that for his club this season

Those alternatives as you call them are doing Gerrards leg work these season and one im sure as netted for us this year as opposed to Gerrard who hasn't

[Kenny Kan]

Gerrard netted against Palace.

[Benny The Noon]

Apologies my mistake

[Kenny Kan]

No problem.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

And in reply to that RED what other people are saying is we don't have the quality to manage him properly. That is the point.

We all know at 33 he's not what he was, we all know he can't perform for 90 minutes every match, we all know he needs to be looked after and occassionally taken off after 65 minutes or so, we would all love it if we had the strength to save his legs when possible.

But the alternatives do not fill people with any amount of confidence.

I'd rather go into a game with a patched up one legged Gerrard than a fully fit Lucas and Henderson. Gerrard offers something, even when playing poorly he can pull a team out of the Sh*t by scoring a goal or setting one up. Lucas and Henderson, for most... offer nothing. Henderson runs around alot and does absolutely tones of nothing, he occassionally makes a decent run forward and occassionally gets his positioning right defensively, but in 3 years I've never seen the lad intercept a pass, dominate a midfield, win a few tackles in a match, win headers, dribble past anyone, score important goals... etc etc etc. The odd worldy aside, he's done very very little, and Lucas is pretty much the same. The lad throws in regular tackles, but his lack of reading of the game makes him appear slow and leads to him getting booked all the time... Gerrard even at his age now will probably score twice as many goals and set twice as many up as those two put together this season as well.

Now I understand its not "just about goals", but the fact is, has been pointed out by others, he's the best tackler, passer and leader we have still.

As I said earlier, last 10 minutes, 0-0... I'd rather the ball fall to a ***** Steven Gerrard 25 yards out than either of the "alternatives"... if you can call them that....

the team has evolved though, you are talking like it`s a decade ago and if gerrard doesnt create anything no one will. in suarez, coutinho, sturridge and moses we have players who can create and score goals.
we need a different role from our midfield these days, we just want them to screen the defence and make sure we dont get over run whilst the front four do their thing.
no one is saying that lucas and hendo are better out and out players than gerrard but at this stage of their careers they are more athletic and cover more ground.
infact you are a bit unfair on hendo and lucas, take away gerrards penalties and how many league goals did he score last season? he scored 5 in open play, the same number as hendo! and hendo only started getting a regular game halfway through the season.
as for lucas i remember seeing a stat that no player in europe`s top league`s has made more tackles than lucas over the past 5 years and he missed an entire season through injury!
are they as good as a prime gerrard? no, no one is but they arent trying to usurp a prime gerrard from the team.
look, i`ve often said that in 100 years time there will be liverpool fans watching grainy images of gerrard scoring crucial goals with tears of pride streaming down their faces, especially when they read that in an era where greed was seen as a virtue he turned down the chance of becoming the highest payed footballer on the planet to stay with his hometown club. as long as footballs are being kicked around the streets of liverpool that lads name will never be forgotten. he has chiseled his name into the history of this club in huge letters, he is a genuine true legend, but the club has to move on and stay successful and relevant for his name to be remembered, who remembers the names of the preston legends from the turn of the century or the huddersfield legends who won 3 titles on the bounce in an era when winning two titles back to back was seen as a pipe dream?
people only remember the names of the legends of the successful clubs.
is gerrards liverpool career over? no, far from it, but the days when he was a fixture in the team are imo, at the end of the day it`s the club thats that important thing here, because thats the thing that will out live us all, and if for the good of the club gerrard needs to come off at 70 minutes or sit on the bench for a game or two then so be it.
what i dont want to see is gerrard end up like phil neal, for a decade neal was a superb fullback who played in 5 european cup finals (scored in 2 of them) and was never taken the cleaners even once by the best wingers in europe, but he played on too long and the crowd ended up on his back because everyone was going past him.
gerrard is up there with the shanklys, paisleys and dalglish`s and who knows maybe he will one day get the chance to manage this club? i wouldnt bet against it.

[devaney]

Cracking post ^^^

[supersub]

Cracking post ^^^

on the nail

[Benny The Noon]

And in reply to that RED what other people are saying is we don't have the quality to manage him properly. That is the point.

We all know at 33 he's not what he was, we all know he can't perform for 90 minutes every match, we all know he needs to be looked after and occassionally taken off after 65 minutes or so, we would all love it if we had the strength to save his legs when possible.

But the alternatives do not fill people with any amount of confidence.

I'd rather go into a game with a patched up one legged Gerrard than a fully fit Lucas and Henderson. Gerrard offers something, even when playing poorly he can pull a team out of the Sh*t by scoring a goal or setting one up. Lucas and Henderson, for most... offer nothing. Henderson runs around alot and does absolutely tones of nothing, he occassionally makes a decent run forward and occassionally gets his positioning right defensively, but in 3 years I've never seen the lad intercept a pass, dominate a midfield, win a few tackles in a match, win headers, dribble past anyone, score important goals... etc etc etc. The odd worldy aside, he's done very very little, and Lucas is pretty much the same. The lad throws in regular tackles, but his lack of reading of the game makes him appear slow and leads to him getting booked all the time... Gerrard even at his age now will probably score twice as many goals and set twice as many up as those two put together this season as well.

Now I understand its not "just about goals", but the fact is, has been pointed out by others, he's the best tackler, passer and leader we have still.

As I said earlier, last 10 minutes, 0-0... I'd rather the ball fall to a ***** Steven Gerrard 25 yards out than either of the "alternatives"... if you can call them that....

the team has evolved though, you are talking like it`s a decade ago and if gerrard doesnt create anything no one will. in suarez, coutinho, sturridge and moses we have players who can create and score goals.
we need a different role from our midfield these days, we just want them to screen the defence and make sure we dont get over run whilst the front four do their thing.
no one is saying that lucas and hendo are better out and out players than gerrard but at this stage of their careers they are more athletic and cover more ground.
infact you are a bit unfair on hendo and lucas, take away gerrards penalties and how many league goals did he score last season? he scored 5 in open play, the same number as hendo! and hendo only started getting a regular game halfway through the season.
as for lucas i remember seeing a stat that no player in europe`s top league`s has made more tackles than lucas over the past 5 years and he missed an entire season through injury!
are they as good as a prime gerrard? no, no one is but they arent trying to usurp a prime gerrard from the team.
look, i`ve often said that in 100 years time there will be liverpool fans watching grainy images of gerrard scoring crucial goals with tears of pride streaming down their faces, especially when they read that in an era where greed was seen as a virtue he turned down the chance of becoming the highest payed footballer on the planet to stay with his hometown club. as long as footballs are being kicked around the streets of liverpool that lads name will never be forgotten. he has chiseled his name into the history of this club in huge letters, he is a genuine true legend, but the club has to move on and stay successful and relevant for his name to be remembered, who remembers the names of the preston legends from the turn of the century or the huddersfield legends who won 3 titles on the bounce in an era when winning two titles back to back was seen as a pipe dream?
people only remember the names of the legends of the successful clubs.
is gerrards liverpool career over? no, far from it, but the days when he was a fixture in the team are imo, at the end of the day it`s the club thats that important thing here, because thats the thing that will out live us all, and if for the good of the club gerrard needs to come off at 70 minutes or sit on the bench for a game or two then so be it.
what i dont want to see is gerrard end up like phil neal, for a decade neal was a superb fullback who played in 5 european cup finals (scored in 2 of them) and was never taken the cleaners even once by the best wingers in europe, but he played on too long and the crowd ended up on his back because everyone was going past him.
gerrard is up there with the shanklys, paisleys and dalglish`s and who knows maybe he will one day get the chance to manage this club? i wouldnt bet against it.

Good post - summed up my thinking exactly

[Kenny Kan]

Beast of a post that Yakka.

[LFC1990]

Well put Yakka think youve highlighted most of our points

[Stu the Red]

That's if ten mins from time Gerrard has the energy left to be 25 yards from goal - not seen much evidence of that for his club this season

Those alternatives as you call them are doing Gerrards leg work these season and one im sure as netted for us this year as opposed to Gerrard who hasn't

1. See the England game the other night.

2 Check the palace goalscorers.

Good post as always

[Stu the Red]

the team has evolved though, you are talking like it`s a decade ago and if gerrard doesnt create anything no one will. in suarez, coutinho, sturridge and moses we have players who can create and score goals.
we need a different role from our midfield these days, we just want them to screen the defence and make sure we dont get over run whilst the front four do their thing.

no one is saying that lucas and hendo are better out and out players than gerrard but at this stage of their careers they are more athletic and cover more ground.

infact you are a bit unfair on hendo and lucas, take away gerrards penalties and how many league goals did he score last season? he scored 5 in open play, the same number as hendo! and hendo only started getting a regular game halfway through the season.

as for lucas i remember seeing a stat that no player in europe`s top league`s has made more tackles than lucas over the past 5 years and he missed an entire season through injury!
are they as good as a prime gerrard? no, no one is but they arent trying to usurp a prime gerrard from the team.

look, i`ve often said that in 100 years time there will be liverpool fans watching grainy images of gerrard scoring crucial goals with tears of pride streaming down their faces, especially when they read that in an era where greed was seen as a virtue he turned down the chance of becoming the highest payed footballer on the planet to stay with his hometown club. as long as footballs are being kicked around the streets of liverpool that lads name will never be forgotten. he has chiseled his name into the history of this club in huge letters, he is a genuine true legend, but the club has to move on and stay successful and relevant for his name to be remembered, who remembers the names of the preston legends from the turn of the century or the huddersfield legends who won 3 titles on the bounce in an era when winning two titles back to back was seen as a pipe dream?

people only remember the names of the legends of the successful clubs.
is gerrards liverpool career over? no, far from it, but the days when he was a fixture in the team are imo, at the end of the day it`s the club thats that important thing here, because thats the thing that will out live us all, and if for the good of the club gerrard needs to come off at 70 minutes or sit on the bench for a game or two then so be it.

what i dont want to see is gerrard end up like phil neal, for a decade neal was a superb fullback who played in 5 european cup finals (scored in 2 of them) and was never taken the cleaners even once by the best wingers in europe, but he played on too long and the crowd ended up on his back because everyone was going past him.
gerrard is up there with the shanklys, paisleys and dalglish`s and who knows maybe he will one day get the chance to manage this club? i wouldnt bet against it.

Could have spaced your post out a bit better

I agree to an extent that we don't rely on Gerrard to create and score all our goals anymore. Thats a perfectly valid point. We don't, but by the same token, if you have two players to pick from, one can do those things and the other just flat out can't, why on earth would you go for the one that can't? Why would you pick a lesser player to "suit a style" or system? To me thats completely backwards. You pick your best players and then a system to suit, and like it or not, Steven is without doubt still one of our best players despite the fact that some people are making out like he needs a walking stick.

The point is, even with Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho in the side, they still need players who find them in space for them to be completely effective. Suarez first goal against Sunderland was a prime example... Do you ever in footballing past, present or future think that Lucas or Henderson sees that ball to Sturridge? I certainly don't. If that ball isn't played, that goal never gets scored. Thats just one example and come the end of the season, their will be many many more.

There are times this season still, despite Gerrard's supposed lack of form where he has stood out head and shoulders above the rest, United, Villa and Stoke being prime examples. Also for England.

You make out like a midfielders job, is to run rounds lots, put in the occasional tackle and pass a ball square. It isn't, its a hell of a lot more than that and to be quite honest, I think most people would understand that. Gerrard still does the majority of it an awful lot better than the other two.

You mention in your post also that Lucas and Henderson aren't still out and out better players than Gerrard, which is completely correct... so my point still stands, why on earth would you prefere them to start over Gerrard? Thats like saying you'd take Sturridge over Suarez which is just absolute damn right insanity in my book.

As for the goal stats, you can't sit there and say, take away penalties... its not a valid arguement, because putting the ball in the back of the net is a goal. Unfortunately, its the same for Lampard. They all count. A goal is a goal. Henderson has never scored enough throughout his career, neither has Lucas.

The stat about Lucas' tackles aswell, is just something that people try to use to convince others he's a good player. The lad isn't. Him and Henderson would struggle to get into most sides in the premier league. Infact, I'd go as far as to say that neither would get into any side in the projected top ten for this season.

I understand fully what you're saying about not wanting Gerrard to go the same way Neal did or even Giggs did at the ***** down the road. That would just be poor judgment. But the fact is, he's still the best we have in that position by a long way and until we get players that are better than the current Gerrard (who believe it or not can still play a little bit) then I think this idea of dropping him for games is complete and utter madness.

xx