Liverpool FC Forum

[EddieC]

Contrary to popular belief, now we have new investment we are NOT going to bring in 10 new players for riduculous sums of money. Firstly Rafa won't be held to ransom for a player, if he allows this to happen once the floodgates will open & we'll get ripped off on every player we're after. Secondly, only four of our current 1st team weren't bought by Benitez. This is a work in motion, and he has half the players he wants already.

Anyway, let's look realistically at what players are needed. Below is what I'd class as our 1st  XI, players in bold are the ones I don't think are good enough:

GK Reina
LB Riise
CB Agger
CB Carragher
RB Finnan
LM Kewell
CM Alonso
CM Gerrard
RM Pennant
CF Kuyt
CF Bellamy

That's three 1st team players needed, two wingers & a striker. Out of the three in bold above, I believe Bellamy & Pennant are still good squad players and should stay as such. Kewell, brilliant as he is, is just never fit & has to go.

So who to buy? We'll start with strikers as it seems to be the area of greatest need (Worst shots to goals ratio out of the big 4). There are three main names in the frame: Torres, Villa & Eto'o. Eto'o as far as I'm concerned is mainly paper talk, I don't see him leaving Barca yet, but there have been clear signs that the two Spaniards may be allowed to move on in the summer, so I'll focus on them.

I'm not sure who it was who said this about Torres, but it sums him up perfectly: 'He's a scorer of great goals, but he's not a great goalscorer'

With Robbie probably on his way in the summer, if not definately next year, we need a finisher just as good to replace him. Initially, Torres' record of 68 goals in 159 games sems quite impressive, but you have to look at the way Atletico play. They play as a one man team, with everything going through to Torres, and therefore he has the lions share of the chances, very similar to the way Auxerre played with Cisse in their team. As with Cisse, I don't feel he would adapt too well to having to be part of a team, and the hard work & tracking back that Rafa wants from his strikers.

Villa on the other hand, would be a much better option IMO. The lad doesn't rely on being fed the ball all the time, he can create something out of nothing, with that little bit of magic. Also, I can't find any stats to back me up, but I'm sure his assist rate will be a lot higher than Torres. But what makes him so special, is that he can do this and still score goals, 104 in 211 appearances so far. When you take into account that he's only been with Valencia since 2005, and before that was playing for Real Zaragoza & Sporting de Gijon, that tally only serves to become even more impressive. Villa is a real rarity, a clinical finisher who actually has more to his game than just goals.

We also need a couple of wingers. Rafa's preferred style of play is to have an out & out winger on one flank, a man who's going to beat his man & get a cross in, and a player with more of a defensive game on the other flank. For this reason I expect to see quite a defensive right midfielder arrive (we already have pennant, who's defensive game is about as good as mine) and an out & out winger on the left, where we already have Riise or Aurelio to play a more defensive role when needed. Many people have spoken about Daniel Alves as a right back, I would actually propose him as a winger, which is the position Benitez was trying to buy him for last summer. Anyone who's watched Alves play would agree that whilst defensively sound, tackling isn't the main part of his game & he is much better going forward. He isn't a traditional winger, and will cut in a lot & (hopefully) bang in a few goals from that position, a la Gerrard last season. Alves would also provide additional cover at Right Back & give us a good option for playing with Wing Backs, as Finnan hasn't got enough in him at his age to play the role for 90 minutes.

With regards to signing Villa & Alves, I am certain that these are the right options and I expect to see them here in the summer. With regards to the Left Wing, however, I'm not so certain. As I said earlier, I would expect it to be an out & out winger who's going to take on his man. Lennon was one name that sprung to mind, I know he's played out there for Spurs a few times, but I haven't seen him play there enough to make an informed decision. Morten Gamst Pedersen is another option, he's had a brilliant season so far with Blackburn but I'm not sure how much they'd want to let him go. Another option that would be very controversial is Arjen Robben. Rumour has it that Sh!tski are willing to let him go, but I feel there's to much water under the bridge for him to come here. The fact is I'm still not sure who would be best for the job, I will be watching Left wingers more closely from now on.

The only position where I feel we need to strengthen our back up is Centre Back. In the centre of defence, Palleta is just too slow, but rather than buying someone in I would like to see Jack Hobbs get the call up.

Obviously as well as players coming in the summer, some will be leaving as well. I'm sure it's set in stone that Zenden & Cisse will be going in the summer, and would expect Dudek, Kewell & Fowler to join him. Kewell is far too injury prone, unfortunate as he could've been a great player for us, and Fowler hasn't looked after his body well enough to carry on as long as Sheringham at this level.

So this would leave a 1st XI of:

GK Reina
LB Riise
CB Agger
CB Carragher
RB Finnan
LM Pedersen?
CM Alonso
CM Gerrard
RM Alves
CF Kuyt
CF Villa

And a reserve XI of:

GK Carson
LB Aurelio
CB Hyypia
CB Hobbs
RB Arbeloa
LM Luis Garcia
CM Sissoko
CM Mascherano
RM Pennant
CF Crouch
CF Bellamy

To me, this is a squad capable of bringing the premiership home.

[Sabre]

That was a well explained post Eddie C.

It's natural I agree some of it and I disagree some of it as you say many things.

I disagree we need two wingers. As for "winger" we have pennant. But if anything was to be bought for the right side, I'd think of a right midfielder, it would complete our squad. That is, I wouldn't bring a player with the same rol of Pennant.

As for Torres, I'm a detractor. Atletico Madrid has never won in my local stadium since it was built in 1993, and I'm biased by the bad games of him I've seen. I don't like the players that meanwhile the two lines behind him are working and moving left and right together working, he's walking and gutless. That kind of things do not appear in youtube, and it irritates me a lot, although I'm happy oppo players do that.

He'd annoy you.

[Lando_Griffin]

I'd say we needed a leftback aswell Eddie, as Riise just isn't a title-winner in that position, and Aurelio just can't stay fit, and there are no guarantees about his future after his recent achillies rupture. (FWIW, I actually rate Aurelio very highly, right from when I saw us against Lincoln City in a pre-season friendly (which was agreed as part of the Jack Hobbs deal way back when.), and he showed true class on the ball, and also the ability to tackle. (Something that appears to have escaped Mr Riise.))

Quite who we'd sign is a moot point, but Leyton Baines has been mentioned a few times. I haven't seen him play myself, so I can't comment, but the strength of support on here suggests he is just the ticket.
He would be able to learn from Aurelio, and cover the position for a couple of years until he's ready to claim the spot full-time.

That is assuming, of course, that he IS good enough. (On that point, I would be interested to hear Stu's assessment of the lad (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink...! ))

[Stu.Murph]

Can't believe so many of you are putting G.Raff in the team considering this is an open invitation to pick almost anyone! I mean ffs if you could have any two strikers in the World you'd seriously consider G.Raff?

And Pennant RM?

Lando - I thought I heard someone was interested in Villa but something like £80m was mentioned? I'd pay £15m maybe £20m for him, but considering Kuyt's the only striker likely to be sure of a place then I wouldn't blow half the reported £40m budget on one player. If links with Simao are to be believed then we're probably talking around £10m, £40m may sound a lot but in terms of quality it is about 2-4 players.

But if we can sell G.Raff, Bellamy, Hyypia and maybe Sissoko to raise as much as £15m then that would help. Look down the teamsheet and it is rather lacking top value players - that we'd want to sell that is

Now you are talking rubbish.

[red37]

who the hell's G. Raff 

[jaytoothetee]

crouchinho!! (giraffe) geddit?? 

[red37]

crouchinho!! (giraffe) geddit?? 

oh him..

[Stu.Murph]

Contrary to popular belief, now we have new investment we are NOT going to bring in 10 new players for riduculous sums of money. Firstly Rafa won't be held to ransom for a player, if he allows this to happen once the floodgates will open & we'll get ripped off on every player we're after. Secondly, only four of our current 1st team weren't bought by Benitez. This is a work in motion, and he has half the players he wants already.

Anyway, let's look realistically at what players are needed. Below is what I'd class as our 1st  XI, players in bold are the ones I don't think are good enough:

GK Reina
LB Riise
CB Agger
CB Carragher
RB Finnan
LM Kewell
CM Alonso
CM Gerrard
RM Pennant
CF Kuyt
CF Bellamy

That's three 1st team players needed, two wingers & a striker. Out of the three in bold above, I believe Bellamy & Pennant are still good squad players and should stay as such. Kewell, brilliant as he is, is just never fit & has to go.

So who to buy? We'll start with strikers as it seems to be the area of greatest need (Worst shots to goals ratio out of the big 4). There are three main names in the frame: Torres, Villa & Eto'o. Eto'o as far as I'm concerned is mainly paper talk, I don't see him leaving Barca yet, but there have been clear signs that the two Spaniards may be allowed to move on in the summer, so I'll focus on them.

I'm not sure who it was who said this about Torres, but it sums him up perfectly: 'He's a scorer of great goals, but he's not a great goalscorer'

With Robbie probably on his way in the summer, if not definately next year, we need a finisher just as good to replace him. Initially, Torres' record of 68 goals in 159 games sems quite impressive, but you have to look at the way Atletico play. They play as a one man team, with everything going through to Torres, and therefore he has the lions share of the chances, very similar to the way Auxerre played with Cisse in their team. As with Cisse, I don't feel he would adapt too well to having to be part of a team, and the hard work & tracking back that Rafa wants from his strikers.

Villa on the other hand, would be a much better option IMO. The lad doesn't rely on being fed the ball all the time, he can create something out of nothing, with that little bit of magic. Also, I can't find any stats to back me up, but I'm sure his assist rate will be a lot higher than Torres. But what makes him so special, is that he can do this and still score goals, 104 in 211 appearances so far. When you take into account that he's only been with Valencia since 2005, and before that was playing for Real Zaragoza & Sporting de Gijon, that tally only serves to become even more impressive. Villa is a real rarity, a clinical finisher who actually has more to his game than just goals.

We also need a couple of wingers. Rafa's preferred style of play is to have an out & out winger on one flank, a man who's going to beat his man & get a cross in, and a player with more of a defensive game on the other flank. For this reason I expect to see quite a defensive right midfielder arrive (we already have pennant, who's defensive game is about as good as mine) and an out & out winger on the left, where we already have Riise or Aurelio to play a more defensive role when needed. Many people have spoken about Daniel Alves as a right back, I would actually propose him as a winger, which is the position Benitez was trying to buy him for last summer. Anyone who's watched Alves play would agree that whilst defensively sound, tackling isn't the main part of his game & he is much better going forward. He isn't a traditional winger, and will cut in a lot & (hopefully) bang in a few goals from that position, a la Gerrard last season. Alves would also provide additional cover at Right Back & give us a good option for playing with Wing Backs, as Finnan hasn't got enough in him at his age to play the role for 90 minutes.

With regards to signing Villa & Alves, I am certain that these are the right options and I expect to see them here in the summer. With regards to the Left Wing, however, I'm not so certain. As I said earlier, I would expect it to be an out & out winger who's going to take on his man. Lennon was one name that sprung to mind, I know he's played out there for Spurs a few times, but I haven't seen him play there enough to make an informed decision. Morten Gamst Pedersen is another option, he's had a brilliant season so far with Blackburn but I'm not sure how much they'd want to let him go. Another option that would be very controversial is Arjen Robben. Rumour has it that Sh!tski are willing to let him go, but I feel there's to much water under the bridge for him to come here. The fact is I'm still not sure who would be best for the job, I will be watching Left wingers more closely from now on.

The only position where I feel we need to strengthen our back up is Centre Back. In the centre of defence, Palleta is just too slow, but rather than buying someone in I would like to see Jack Hobbs get the call up.

Obviously as well as players coming in the summer, some will be leaving as well. I'm sure it's set in stone that Zenden & Cisse will be going in the summer, and would expect Dudek, Kewell & Fowler to join him. Kewell is far too injury prone, unfortunate as he could've been a great player for us, and Fowler hasn't looked after his body well enough to carry on as long as Sheringham at this level.

So this would leave a 1st XI of:

GK Reina
LB Riise
CB Agger
CB Carragher
RB Finnan
LM Pedersen?
CM Alonso
CM Gerrard
RM Alves
CF Kuyt
CF Villa

And a reserve XI of:

GK Carson
LB Aurelio
CB Hyypia
CB Hobbs
RB Arbeloa
LM Luis Garcia
CM Sissoko
CM Mascherano
RM Pennant
CF Crouch
CF Bellamy

To me, this is a squad capable of bringing the premiership home.

Firstly I don't for a second believe we should ever sign a player to play him out of position. Alves is a right back, not a right winger. I'm getting quite bored of this arguement. You don't sign a full back to give you attacking flair from an advanced position. As good as he is, he's a right back which involves completely different movement, qualities and attitude to playing as a winger.

I also Like the style of the post, but I completely disagree with most things you say in it if truth be known.

You mention the players who you don't think are good enough. Within the squad I would say Gonzalez, Zenden and Palletta, Cisse and La Tallec aren't upto playing for this club while Fowler, Sinama-Pongolle and Dudek seem to be surpless to requirements.

Out of all our other three forward's Bellamy is probably the only one I'd consider keeping.

For me It looks more like this:

GK Reina
LB Riise
CB Agger
CB Carragher
RB Finnan
LM Kewell
CM Alonso
CM Gerrard
RM Pennant
CF Kuyt
CF Bellamy

Agger I just don't believe is upto it long term and I don't believe is the answer, as good as he is... Its as simple as that.

He's nowhere near what Sami was at his peak and I feel we can do a hell of a lot better in this position. Woodgate being the one for me. Agger is a good player, but only a squad player. A large part of our defence being so strong this year is down to playing three ball winners in midfield, having two strikers that work hard and having good players all over the pitch who are willing to put there shift it. I think If we were to play the same style as United both Carragher and more so Agger would found wanting a hell of a lot more than they have this season. For me with both of these players, its about them playing in a system that suits them.

I feel Woodgate while not only being far better defensively in every aspect, would allow us to play a more expansive game. I understand the risk side of things, but the fact is he's played alot of games this season being excellent whenever I've seen the lad. I also feel he'd allow Agger enough games through these "problems" to play and keep him content at least. But I believe If you can get 25 league games out of Woodgate a season, then it would be money well spent as I feel him and Carragher would be immense. What I do like about Agger is his abililty to carry the ball and I think its something that can maybe be used against the lesser sides to commit players while also showing he's at least competent enough to play against the better sides. It will be interesting next season if he's first choice weather teams decide to exploit him as the weakest link in the defence.

For Kewell its simple. Fitness is the only thing. His injury's. If he stays fit he's upto it. If not, he's not. To much of a risk now. After 4 years of injury problems at this club. Its hard to see it changing. I know I've advocated Woodgate who's just as bad, but I feel we've got good cover for Woodgate, where as with Kewell theres only really Riise. As for a replacement, I'm stumped. Vicente's the only one I can think of but again inury prone and doesn't offer enough of a goal threat. For the simple fact I can't think of another one as good who's available, i'd keep Harry for one last season.

The strikers? Well If I'm honest needs a complete and utter revamp for me. I'm not against letting Fowler leave, but I'm also not against letting Kuyt, Crouch or Bellamy leave either. For me the only one i'd consider keeping would be Bellamy, for his work rate, link up play and ability to run into the channels.
I personally don't see what Kuyt or Crouch can offer us that we can't replace with better quality players.

The three for me would be Tevez, Ashton and Anelka. Goals, pace, intelligence, power, can all finish, link up, all of which are at least one or two classes above anything we currently have and all of which are different and give you different things.

Now for the speculation part...

I think with the a budget of £30,000,000 and with the sales of Crouch, Kuyt, Cisse, La Tallec, Gonzalez and Sinama-Pongolle we could raise an absoloute minimum of £15,000,000. Leaving us with £45,000,000.

I'd be suprised if we couldn't get Ashton and Tevez for £25,000,000... Especially if West Ham go down, Anelka for £12,000,000 and Woodgate for £8,000,000.

Leaving us with a first 11 of:

GK Reina

RB Finnan
CB Carragher
CB Woodgate
LB Aurelio

RM Pennant
CM Gerrard
CM Alonso
LM Kewell

CF Tevez
CF Anelka

and with these players in reserve:

GK Carson

RB Arbeloa
CB Hyypia
CB Agger
LB Riise

RM Anderson (to fill a gap)
CM Mascherano
CM Sissoko
LM Luis Garcia

CF Bellamy
CF Ashton

That would leave you with the following options with immsense quailty which I think is massively important:

GK Reina

RB Finnan/Arbeloa
CB Carragher
CB Woodgate/Agger
LB Aurelio/Riise

RM Pennant/Gerrard/Luis Garcia
CM Gerrard/Mascherano
CM Alonso
LM Kewell/Luis Garcia/Riise

CF Tevez/Ashton/Bellamy
CF Anelka/Bellamy

I can't see anything other than that being strong enough If I'm honest.

[EddieC]

I disagree we need two wingers. As for "winger" we have pennant. But if anything was to be bought for the right side, I'd think of a right midfielder, it would complete our squad. That is, I wouldn't bring a player with the same rol of Pennant.

That's what I meant, just a case of me not wording it properly. I do think we need an out & out winger for the left side, but as you rightly said not on the right.

BTW what's your opinion on Alves? I know Stu thinks I'm chatting sh!t, but from what I've seen of him I honestly think he'd play better at right midfield than right back. I've only watched him about 5 or 6 times, but every time he's seemed a lot more interested in going forward than defending, something which would cause a problem when playing in defence.

[Sabre]

I also Like the style of the post, but I completely disagree with most things you say in it if truth be known.

You must take that line of Stu as one of my "good post". If he doesn't say  and cares about answering, it means your post wasn't bad at all. 

Alves. Yes he likes going forward, but it would be a waste for any team not using him as a RB.

Gonzo last year, played much better than in the improved version of the game against Wigan. Gonzo was given continuous spells, and not random games. I think he'll get better.

I mention Gonzo because he beat by pace every player of the liga I can remember, but Alves. Not only that, he's good at tackling and he has the stamina to go up and down.

He could be just a Right winger of course, but he's more a full back and I'd definitely use him as a RB, because it's like putting a lock to the whole wing mate.

But, half the top teams are after him, it's gonna be difficult to sign him up

[Stu.Murph]

I disagree we need two wingers. As for "winger" we have pennant. But if anything was to be bought for the right side, I'd think of a right midfielder, it would complete our squad. That is, I wouldn't bring a player with the same rol of Pennant.

That's what I meant, just a case of me not wording it properly. I do think we need an out & out winger for the left side, but as you rightly said not on the right.

BTW what's your opinion on Alves? I know Stu thinks I'm chatting sh!t, but from what I've seen of him I honestly think he'd play better at right midfield than right back. I've only watched him about 5 or 6 times, but every time he's seemed a lot more interested in going forward than defending, something which would cause a problem when playing in defence.

Playing Alves as a winger is like playing Roberto Carlos or Ashley Cole as a winger. They are out an out defenders. They are far better attacking from deep positions rather than receiving the ball in a high position on the pitch and being asked to start an attack.

Its a completely different position.

Alves can do a job on the right wing, no doubt, but he's a right back. Its like playing Gerrard "in the hole" or in the "holding role". You're taking away 50% of his game. Alves is a very very good defender.

[grayghost]

I disagree we need two wingers. As for "winger" we have pennant. But if anything was to be bought for the right side, I'd think of a right midfielder, it would complete our squad. That is, I wouldn't bring a player with the same rol of Pennant.

That's what I meant, just a case of me not wording it properly. I do think we need an out & out winger for the left side, but as you rightly said not on the right.

BTW what's your opinion on Alves? I know Stu thinks I'm chatting sh!t, but from what I've seen of him I honestly think he'd play better at right midfield than right back. I've only watched him about 5 or 6 times, but every time he's seemed a lot more interested in going forward than defending, something which would cause a problem when playing in defence.

Playing Alves as a winger is like playing Roberto Carlos or Ashley Cole as a winger. They are out an out defenders. They are far better attacking from deep positions rather than receiving the ball in a high position on the pitch and being asked to start an attack.

Its a completely different position.

Alves can do a job on the right wing, no doubt, but he's a right back. Its like playing Gerrard "in the hole" or in the "holding role". You're taking away 50% of his game. Alves is a very very good defender.

I think Alves would be a great winger he is way to attacking for rafas liking when playing RB. I think Rafa will have him on the wing more than RB. With his speed eye for goal and great passing abilty plus like some wingers he will not shirk from a takle plus he will work hard for the team being slitly defensive minded in a brazilian kind of way.

[Owzat]

Can't believe so many of you are putting G.Raff in the team considering this is an open invitation to pick almost anyone! I mean ffs if you could have any two strikers in the World you'd seriously consider G.Raff?

And Pennant RM?

Lando - I thought I heard someone was interested in Villa but something like £80m was mentioned? I'd pay £15m maybe £20m for him, but considering Kuyt's the only striker likely to be sure of a place then I wouldn't blow half the reported £40m budget on one player. If links with Simao are to be believed then we're probably talking around £10m, £40m may sound a lot but in terms of quality it is about 2-4 players.

But if we can sell G.Raff, Bellamy, Hyypia and maybe Sissoko to raise as much as £15m then that would help. Look down the teamsheet and it is rather lacking top value players - that we'd want to sell that is

Now you are talking rubbish.

Explain. Or is that simply one of those dismissive posts where you don't have a counter-argument or anything to back up your dismissive post

[Owzat]

crouchinho!! (giraffe) geddit?? 

Be glad to get rid of him if only so I don't hear "you know" 99 times in every interview

[Big Niall]

We won't have a first 11 (unless you are talking about the first league game )

Rafa will change the team nearly every game and "rest" players in September FFS.

Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes (i.e. league lost by September two years straight) but I fear not.

STOP ROTATION!!