Liverpool FC Forum

[Bad Bob]

I generally agree with Saint's approach--sensible rotation (1-3 changes per) is a sound policy that all top teams pursue (less so Arsenal, arguably, but they have a smallish squad and it may yet cost them this season).  The bigger concern has been the overly-experimental formations with too many square pegs in round holes--and that applies even when it works and we win (Sissoko wide right against Newcastle?  Arbeloa at LB?  Carragher at RB?).  I think it's no coincidence that our current run of results has come after we've settled on a formation as well as most of the key personnel who will play in it: the players know their roles and the benefits are being reaped.  I think if Rafa can tone it down to the current level at the start of next season, we'll be in great shape.  That and add at least one if not 2-3 more quality attacking players to the squad.

On the issue of foreigners and desire, I'm less convinced.  One of our lazier players, for instance, is Pennant (IMO) whilst Kuyt and Mascherano would run through brick walls for the club, so I don't think it's just foreigners.  To me, many of our draws are down to us switching off for a moment in a match and getting burned for it (Bramble's goal for Wigan; the late penalty at West Ham; Tevez's goal, etc.).  This league punishes lack of concentration very steeply and we've dropped points as a result.  For me that's a coaching issue (so, yes, getting in an assistant might well help) but it's one that's correctable.  Fine margins make the difference and Rafa's such a keen student of the game, I expect him to take notice of these things and work to eridicate them.

It does need to be said, though, that a proper title challenge next season depends upon some off-field stability.  This club has been an absolute circus off the pitch this season and, I don't care what anyone says, those disruptions have been carried across the white lines by our players at times this campaign.  They are human after all like the rest of us plebs and some of us well know how hard it is to just shut everything out and get on with the job if there are ominous rumblings happening above you.  I hope that Hicks will soon pack it in, take his tidy profit and f.uck off over the horizon so that we can get back to the matter of being a world class football club.

[Sabre]

Yesterday it was a good match for the antirotationists.

Carraguer in a non common position of RB, Skrtel right into the team in a very sensitive position in the pitch, Leiva into the team substituting Alonso who had played the last 3 games, Gerrard's been changed from the right to the attacking midfield as of late, we have changed formations as of late, FFS, if any of the antirotation theory had a bit of truth, yesterday game was a good game to see the devastating effects.

But despite all the ingredients we beat a very tough team. And then, when all the ingredients are there, yet the expected doesn't happen, is when the knowledgeable TV pundits of England seek into their gifted brains to find a great explanation: It's all luck.

Answering the question, I still think we have problems in the team, but I'm still not sure rotation has anything to do about it.

I don't think Rafa will change the policy neither, I'm afraid. Not as long as we play a lot of games. Naturally if we play less games, we'll rotate less.

[account deleted by request]

To me, many of our draws are down to us switching off for a moment in a match and getting burned for it (Bramble's goal for Wigan; the late penalty at West Ham; Tevez's goal, etc.).  This league punishes lack of concentration very steeply and we've dropped points as a result.  For me that's a coaching issue (so, yes, getting in an assistant might well help) but it's one that's correctable.  Fine margins make the difference and Rafa's such a keen student of the game, I expect him to take notice of these things and work to eridicate them.

Do you not think that it might also be due to the team being happy to settle for beating Wigan one nil rather than pushing on for a second and third, settling for a point at West Ham. Too many times this season its seemed to me that we have switched off as soon as we have scored and allowed the other side back into the game, or only started to play late on in the game rather than taking the game to our opponents from the first whistle.

Villa , Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Cardiff, Porto, Derby, Wigan, Luton, Villa ,Barnsley , 11 games where we took the lead yet allowed them to equalise. Some we went on to win others we lost but top sides don't (or shouldn't) allow teams to come back at them so often.

[66-1112520797]

Liverpool under Rafa have traditionally been very strong during the second half of the season. Could this be due to Rafa's rotation policy which keeps the players fresh?

I don't think rotation is a bad policy. It just needs players to come in and step up to the plate. Rotation is not the reason why Liverpool are not challenging for the title this season. The reason is a poor spell in from December (starting after the 2-1 Derby win) to the end of January.

Also, rotation or not, we don't have enough match winners in our team. If we had more matchwinners, maybe 4-5 of those 11 draws we have had this season would have been wins.

Rotation is not the problem. The fact we don't have matchwinners asides from Gerrard and Torress is the problem.

Liverpool under Rafa have traditionally been very strong during the second half of the season.

But what about the first half of the season though Yari ?

No title is won having one good half a season, you have to be consistent with yor results throughout the season if you want to be challenging for the league. And to do that consistently you need to have your best players playing together aloot more to become cohesive.

Rafa seems to of struck Gold with playing Gerrard behind Torres and Mascha, Lucas or Alonso behind him. I just wonder how many times Rafa will chop and change this and that in the early parts of next season, put it this way I'm not holding my breath.

I dont think Rafa wll ever change his seemingly folly of methods, he hasnt changed that after four years and I dont honestly believe he'll start now.

[Yari7]

Liverpool under Rafa have traditionally been very strong during the second half of the season. Could this be due to Rafa's rotation policy which keeps the players fresh?

I don't think rotation is a bad policy. It just needs players to come in and step up to the plate. Rotation is not the reason why Liverpool are not challenging for the title this season. The reason is a poor spell in from December (starting after the 2-1 Derby win) to the end of January.

Also, rotation or not, we don't have enough match winners in our team. If we had more matchwinners, maybe 4-5 of those 11 draws we have had this season would have been wins.

Rotation is not the problem. The fact we don't have matchwinners asides from Gerrard and Torress is the problem.

Liverpool under Rafa have traditionally been very strong during the second half of the season.

But what about the first half of the season though Yari ?

No title is won having one good half a season, you have to be consistent with yor results throughout the season if you want to be challenging for the league. And to do that consistently you need to have your best players playing together aloot more to become cohesive.

Rafa seems to of struck Gold with playing Gerrard behind Torres and Mascha, Lucas or Alonso behind him. I just wonder how many times Rafa will chop and change this and that in the early parts of next season, put it this way I'm not holding my breath.

I dont think Rafa wll ever change his seemingly folly of methods, he hasnt changed that after four years and I dont honestly believe he'll start now.

Well, you have a good point. But this season, I beleive we had a good first half of the season. At the end of last year, we were still contenders for the title.

We just had a complete loss of form in January. Considering this wasnt even the period where Rafa was doing most of his rotation, I don't think that can be blamed.

We just had a horrible run. We drew something like 4 premiership games in a row, and lost to West Ham.

That is the period which cost us the premiership. Now weather that poor run was due to rotation is a diferent story.

The Man City 1-1 draw was a good tough result, but had we been able to convert the draws vs Wigan (We were 1-0 up and conceded a silly goal), Middlesborough, And especialy Aston Villa (Also had a 1-0 lead, in which 3 minutes of madness turned into a 2-1 deficit), and had we not switched off vs West Ham in the last minute, we would have 63 points right now. Only 3 points off the top.

Unless we can somehow put these poor performances down to the rotation, then we can't really blame rotation for failing this season.

[Bad Bob]

To me, many of our draws are down to us switching off for a moment in a match and getting burned for it (Bramble's goal for Wigan; the late penalty at West Ham; Tevez's goal, etc.).  This league punishes lack of concentration very steeply and we've dropped points as a result.  For me that's a coaching issue (so, yes, getting in an assistant might well help) but it's one that's correctable.  Fine margins make the difference and Rafa's such a keen student of the game, I expect him to take notice of these things and work to eridicate them.

Do you not think that it might also be due to the team being happy to settle for beating Wigan one nil rather than pushing on for a second and third, settling for a point at West Ham. Too many times this season its seemed to me that we have switched off as soon as we have scored and allowed the other side back into the game, or only started to play late on in the game rather than taking the game to our opponents from the first whistle.

Villa , Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Cardiff, Porto, Derby, Wigan, Luton, Villa ,Barnsley , 11 games where we took the lead yet allowed them to equalise. Some we went on to win others we lost but top sides don't (or shouldn't) allow teams to come back at them so often.

Absolutely, mate--I think that's a key point.  We have definitely lacked that killer instinct at times this year, whereas we've shown it in spades at other times (how many games have we scored 3 or more goals in now?).  I don't know if it's down to having such an airtight defense in the past, which might give the players a sense that 1 goal should do the job?  It's certainly a mentality issue, in any case, but I don't think it's a "foreigner" mentality problem, at any rate.

[ConnO'var]

I am still a believer in sensible rotation. Both from a tactical point of view and a formation viewpoint, I am willing to accept that a few changes of personnel from game to game is not only accepable but desirable if we are to challenge for the title. What I don't (and never have) believed in is rotation Rafa style, where 5 maybe 6 players are changed game to game.

I also believe that players must earn their place in the team, not just be happy to wait till its their turn. (Something else that Rafa now seems to agree with me on now) Players who are playing well should be kept in the team until they either show signs of fatigue or have a bad game. No more resting players in form and full of confidence, while we give someone out of form and low on confidence a chance. If players need to regain form and confidence play them in the reserves.

More worrying than rotation for me is the experiments with different formations, sometimes it seems as if he is only changing the formation to fit in the players he wants to play, rather than for technical or tactical reasons. (Crouch on the wing for example)   

I believe that Rafa is starting to see the light (which I never thought he would) and may continue with a more sensible approach to rotation next season. If he does, I see no reason why we can't mount a challenge or even win the league, and with the addition of an assistant I would be happy for him to have one more go at cracking the prem.

While rotation has taken all the headlines and most of the blame for our inconsistant season I believe that motivation (or lack of)has been the main reason for most of our failings. We play Wigan at home and maybe some of our foreign players arn't quite up for the game in the same way as they would be for a glamorous european encounter. Which is why I would like Rafa to get an assistant to help in preparing the team next season. Someone who can get a little closer to the players and help them to reach their potential week in week out, rather than just on the big occasions.

I have been reading that Hicks plans to offer Rafa a new contract at the end of the season, I hope not as if we fail again in the league next year it will be time to say thanks and goodbye.

What he said ^..... 

Agree 100%.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Benitez over rotates. Sometimes just for the sake of making changes. The solution has got to be, to just cut down. If a team is winning then the players don't feel tired. Also they're super fit human beings with the best luxieries life can offer, so they don't get tired anyway.

[Big Niall]

The last month has proved that a settle team does better. Play a settled team every league game and CL game (only about 50 games) - just the odd rest.

We can play reserves in the two domestic cup competitions.

Rafa should be asked if he plans to rotate next season(i think he will) and then he should be sacked if he says he does.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

So Niall, why not play reserves for the European Cup and concentrate solely on the league?

[Big Niall]

The CL money is essential to buying the top players, also the prestige of doing well in the CL helps attract the best foreigners.

[Bad Bob]

So Niall, why not play reserves for the European Cup and concentrate solely on the league?

Like he did against Marseille at home and got roasted for it?

[Yari7]

I ask, is Rotation to blame for the por run we had in January?

[Big Niall]

We were already out of league by then.

"resting" Torres for the second or third league game set the tone.

Taking Torres and SG off when losing to REading was basically Rafa giving up on the league.

Rafa is soooo wrong for thinking that he should only stop rotation when we are in two tournaments, its too late now for the league, in fact we are now competing neck and neck with Everton.

The season has been a disaster and if he rotates next season then that will be a disaster too.

Oh yeah - sell Aurelio,Arbeloa,pennant,Banayoun,Kuyt,Kewell,Risse,Voninin and if he doesn't like Crouch then him too (no use on bench)

None of these players would be looked at by Manure,Arsenal or Chelsea.

[Yari7]

We were already out of league by then.

"resting" Torres for the second or third league game set the tone.

Taking Torres and SG off when losing to REading was basically Rafa giving up on the league.

Rafa is soooo wrong for thinking that he should only stop rotation when we are in two tournaments, its too late now for the league, in fact we are now competing neck and neck with Everton.

The season has been a disaster and if he rotates next season then that will be a disaster too.

Oh yeah - sell Aurelio,Arbeloa,pennant,Banayoun,Kuyt,Kewell,Risse,Voninin and if he doesn't like Crouch then him too (no use on bench)

None of these players would be looked at by Manure,Arsenal or Chelsea.

How can you say we were out of the league at the begining of January.As I demonstrated above, if we won those three games that we drew in January as well as not losing to West Ham, we would only be 3 points of the top right now, so how could you say we were out of it?

When Rafa took of Gerard and Torres against Reading, it was smart as we were losing 3-1. it would have been our first defeat and we had a super important Champions League match that Teusday.

It was the run in January that has lost us the league. 3 draws and a defeat is simply not good enoguh. I ask, was that poor run down to rotation?

Was Rafa rotating in the month of January?