Liverpool FC Forum

by **NiftyNeil** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:24 am

The biggest suprise this season? For me, it has to be Sami Hyypia.
I know he is one of our most consistent players, but I think he's having one of his best seasons for us. I was worried about us not signing a centre back last summer, I worried that Sami's fitness wouldn't last through to the January transfer window. How wrong was I?
Daniel Agger's going to have his work cut out to get a run in the first team.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:05 am

PC and Mori - I thot they both will score about at least 35-40 goals total between them.

by **LFC #1** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:11 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:PC and Mori - I thot they both will score about at least 35-40 goals total between them.

Why?!!

If you looked at their records before moving here you would've knwon that they weren't going to be that prolific. They aren't 20 goal a season type players. Fowler is, Cisse was in France but Crouch and Morientes? That's not saying they're bad players, just that they are not out and out goalscorers.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:00 am

LiverpoolMadman wrote:PC and Mori - I thot they both will score about at least 35-40 goals total between them.

Like I expected us to sign Ronaldiniho in January, then win the Prem, F.A and European cup.

:alien:

by **mk4195421** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:14 am

Alonso14 wrote:I was also suprised by how long it took Peter Crouch to get off the mark, but even more supprised how good his feet actully are. But overall perfomace has been as expexted, Not a huge amoutn of goals, but some nice touchs. What i thought Morientes would of given us.

you took the words right out of my mouth

i really was surprised by the time it took for crouch to get in gear

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:30 am

Good:
Kewell: Struggled for so long, but has turned it all around with the help of Rafa.

Sissoko: Looked very rough around the edges when he first signed, but has matured at an exceptional rate into a key player for us.

Crouch: I thought it was a gamble when we signed him, but despite only 10 goals, he contributes so much to the team, and is a key reason why our away form and possession rates have improved.

Reina: When Rafa labelled him "the best 'keeper in Spain", I was dubious after our track-record with this department.
He has proved Rafa right, and for me, he is the best 'keeper in the Country right now.

Riise: I maintained that he was a poor left-back up until this season when he rammed those words back down my throat. Some excellent defending this term, which hasn't always been evident.

Sami: Had his worst year in the Premiership last season, looking past it and very tired.
What a way to prove all his doubters wrong. Magnificent.

Bad:

Morientes: What happened to the great striker who dominated Europe? He has lost his edge, and should rightfully be sold in the Summer.

Cisse: Has had limited opportunities as a striker, but you have to ask yourself why? Attitude stinks at times, and his all-round play is as bad as mine.
He has the ability to score, but he contributes nothing else to the team.

Garcia: Just doesn't seem to be able to capture the sparkling Champions League form he showed last season.

Traore: Say no more.

Pongolle: Looked like he might break into the team regularly before his loan to Blackpool

Talented, but obviously not in Rafa's plans, sadly.

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:10 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Good:
Kewell: Struggled for so long, but has turned it all around with the help of Rafa.

Sissoko: Looked very rough around the edges when he first signed, but has matured at an exceptional rate into a key player for us.

Crouch: I thought it was a gamble when we signed him, but despite only 10 goals, he contributes so much to the team, and is a key reason why our away form and possession rates have improved.

Reina: When Rafa labelled him "the best 'keeper in Spain", I was dubious after our track-record with this department.
He has proved Rafa right, and for me, he is the best 'keeper in the Country right now.

Riise: I maintained that he was a poor left-back up until this season when he rammed those words back down my throat. Some excellent defending this term, which hasn't always been evident.

Sami: Had his worst year in the Premiership last season, looking past it and very tired.
What a way to prove all his doubters wrong. Magnificent.

Bad:

Morientes: What happened to the great striker who dominated Europe? He has lost his edge, and should rightfully be sold in the Summer.

Cisse: Has had limited opportunities as a striker, but you have to ask yourself why? Attitude stinks at times, and his all-round play is as bad as mine.
He has the ability to score, but he contributes nothing else to the team.

Garcia: Just doesn't seem to be able to capture the sparkling Champions League form he showed last season.

Traore: Say no more.

Pongolle: Looked like he might break into the team regularly before his loan to Blackpool
Talented, but obviously not in Rafa's plans, sadly.

Excellent post Lando, agree entirely.

by **TheoRacle** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:33 am

Surprised - to the good:
No-one... Rafa said Momo could be the next Viera - I believed him and yes, on curent form he could be.
Crouch: Rafa bought him to add dimension (height?

) to our attack, he has done. Get the feeling that if our our other strikers had been in form he wouldn't have looked quite so good though.

Agger and Kromkamp: both appear to be excellent investments. Not surprised at all that Rafa bought them and for the prices paid.

Actually, yes Fowler has surprised me: he has worked harder than expected to regain fitness and now looks like he never left. New contract signed and sealed IMO.

On the bad side:

Only Garcia really. He's had a dip in form from last year IMO even though he's had opportunities to shine. Has still contributed very important goals but I was expecting him to really take hold this year and consolidate last years effort with more consistency and more goals.

Nando and Cisse have both been dissapointing, though not really surprised by this. Cisse is Cisse - he was never going to excel unless he was played in the role that Houllier bought him for which requires a certain style of play we just don't do anymore. Add to that that he's French ie highly strung, temperamental and does a lot of hand gestures and you get what you see.
Nando IMO has worked hard and both missed sitters and been unlucky in front of goal. Has improved since last season particularly in work rate but still low on confidence.

Rafa: I thought long and hard about this one and ended up putting Rafa on the wrong side of the good/bad divider. Maybe because I have unrealistic expectations I don't know but I have been surprised at some of his substitution choices at times. I also thought he would have sorted out Cisse's and Nando's problems better by now. He's generally excellent tactically but sometimes leaves me thinking 'huh???" Still more than happy of course but the jubilation of Istanbul and the promises of new faces in the summer etc had me thinking 2nd at least from the word go.

Just re-read the last paragraph back and it sounds a bit harsh but if I'm honest I did expect more of his ability to get the most out of Cisse and Nando.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:34 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:Good:

Riise: I maintained that he was a poor left-back up until this season when he rammed those words back down my throat. Some excellent defending this term, which hasn't always been evident.

Good shout on Riise, Lando...

JAR's had an interesting season. Was the first choice LM for the Champions of Europe but things looked a little murky for him when Zenden arrived and played reasonably well. He seemed destined for some bench time. But, all credit to him, he's made LB his own and has been a key part of the stingiest defense in the league (whatever the official stats might say in Chelski's favour).

Like Finnan on the other side, he does his defensive work with a minimum of fuss but to great effect. It's hard to recall too many times when he's been beaten this season, even against the paciest wingers. Plus, he's managed to go the whole season to date without getting booked...an amazing feat for a defender! All of that and he still manages to bomb forward and provide width on the left when Kewell cuts inside. His goal tally has suffered from his move to LB but he's still chipped in with some beauties, as well (like at Birmingham! :bowdown

).

But I would say that the pleasant surprise Riise has been at LB has been aided by one of the slight disappointments of the season: Steven Warnock. At the start of the season Warnock was going from strength to strength and it really seemed as though he was cementing the LB role as his own. The lad even managed an international call-up. Somewhere along the way, though, things went a bit pear-shaped for him. The fact that Riise hasn't really been challenged for the LB position--and when has been out, we've seen Traore as much as Warnock--says it all really. Warnock seems to have missed a key opportunity to cement his place in Rafa's plans this season. I like Warnock--he works his socks off for the team and has the raw talent to succeed--but I suspect that he will need a move away from Anfield to truly reach his potential as a player.

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:40 am

Nobody has really surprised me, but if I had to choose one player it would be Kewell from the turn of the year until now. I had almost lost hope that the bloke was even interested in playing football anymore.

I suppose the more synical side of has to be convinced of him long term, I mean AFTER the World cup.

And talking of surprise's I was over the moon to here we signed Robbie back

by **MilitiaRusher** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:41 am

Unexpectedly good:

Kewell - Never thought he could play to such a level week in week out after recovering from his recurring injury. Although certainly not at the peak level he's capable of performing during his Leeds days, he is now a critical cog of the Reds machine.

Sissoko - Okay, it's his first season but what can we say about him? He has matured in such a short time and is already featuring in most of our first team games. Tough tackling in midfield, possibly choking up the longest distance than any other player, I, to be honest, never expected such a young and raw arrival to perform to such standard. To play in such a standard while being so young and raw, while also lately catching a serious eye injury, is unbelievable really.

Crouch - Okay, you might say he's been immensely poor during his barren spell during the early half of the season but has since improved leaps and bounds. Although still arguably lacking the finishing touch that any striker should possess, his contribution to the team as a whole has been fairly significant. He has featured in most of our first team games and his presence up front has been causing opposition defenders problems with his clever supporting play, while also scoring a fair bit himself.

Strangely poor:

Morientes - For what it's worth, I, possibly including most in the board, probably expected much more from this lad. At the beginning of the season, he promised to deliver his goods but not enough has come from him since. Now, its the same scenario and God knows when he can start scoring goals week in week out. In my opinion, he is way passed his peak and we should offload him as soon as possible. Some might say he plays similarly to Crouch, but Crouch's supporting contribution is arguably better of the two.

Cisse - I hear you say, give him more time? How much time have we given him? Its been quite a long while since his horrific leg break but has since never really produced the goods his capable of. He lack technical skills and only has pace as a main aspect of his play. Generally, He plays selfishly and opts to shoot from far many times albeit better options. Although he has improved of late (v West Brom), I would not keep someone who serves minimal long term purposes.

My 2 cents.

by **48-1119859832** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:27 pm

The strangely poor players this season have been Fernando Morientes and Djibril Cisse.

Fernando Morientes last season struggled with the pace and physical ability of the Premiership, didn't look interested at all and was unfit apart spending much of that season on the bench at Real Madrid, he also struggled to get the ball out of his feet quickly enough and couldn't take it past defenders. And I defended Morientes saying that when he gets a full pre-season under his belt he will be fine (after all he had scored two wonderful goals against Fulham and Charlton). A player of Fernando's ability and quality shouldn't have too much trouble adjusting to the pace and physical nature of English football.

He got pre-season under his belt & he looked in good shape his fitness was there he scored the odd goal and it looked like a transformation had taken place. He was getting the ball out of his feet quickly, he was able to beat defenders and his link up play vastly improved. However altho he’s mastered those aspects of his game which were holding him back, it's his lack of confidence from not adjusting to pace and in particular the physical nature of the Premiership that's has meant we've spent a vast amount of the season playing a striker who plays like a wreck! The amount of times he's missed sitters from 3-6 yards out just shows you that Morientes has no confidence whatsoever.

My view is that we bought Morientes far too late at the age of 28 you're perhaps just asking for trouble and it's a shame that someone who should be in his prime at the ages of 27-29 should be struggling in a League that is perhaps too superior for his overall ability.

Now I move onto Cisse. I had high expectations for this lad. I had read lots of good things about him and watched him a few times and he looked good. I disagreed with the price - tag but I thought perhaps it would pay off if he could score us twenty to thirty goals a season. He started off in my eyes pretty poorly and when he was injured he had played in the region of 13/14 games and had only scored three. However I let him off saying that he would come good next season. Well next season has come and it's horrid to see how Cisse has got worse.

Last season he could master the basics of football and showed some signs of intelligence in his game has suddenly vanished. He can't control the ball, he's doesn't use his brain, his on the ball control is laughable and whilst he's scored 15 goals and that's impressive but c'mon a fair few came against part timers like TNS etc.

He's also become even more frustrating as well, he has some sort of problem in following simple instructions as well which is probably why he was taken off at half time against Bolton. He also spends more time being Lord of the Manor than playing for Liverpool, he's more happy to slap ppl about that focus on making it in the game and how can you blame Rafa for not playing someone who spends his time designs clothes for his fashion label and DJing at 1am in the morning when he should be focusing on football?

These are two strikers that should have done well in a Liverpool shirt, one was branded one of the best players in Europe for a very long time, whilst the other was touted as being a future European great and yet both have played worse than the likes of Kevin Campbell and James Beattie.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:44 pm

TheoRacle wrote:Rafa: I thought long and hard about this one and ended up putting Rafa on the wrong side of the good/bad divider. Maybe because I have unrealistic expectations I don't know but I have been surprised at some of his substitution choices at times. I also thought he would have sorted out Cisse's and Nando's problems better by now. He's generally excellent tactically but sometimes leaves me thinking 'huh???" Still more than happy of course but the jubilation of Istanbul and the promises of new faces in the summer etc had me thinking 2nd at least from the word go.

Just re-read the last paragraph back and it sounds a bit harsh but if I'm honest I did expect more of his ability to get the most out of Cisse and Nando.

Good on ya to stick your neck out Theo...

I know what you mean about some of the substitutions but besides Kromkamp on late at Old Trafford, I struggle to think of ones that actually backfired. In fact, there have been a few that I wondered about at the time but seemed to pay off--Nando on for Crouch against Birmingham for instance (not that that game was in danger of getting away from us!). On occasion he's a bit negative for my liking late in close games but the team's so well organized that it rarely seems to make a huge difference.

As for his man-management of Cisse and Nando, that's an interesting one. I suspect that Rafa has largely washed his hands of Cisse. He'll use him when he needs some pace or as a different option but he doesn't seem interested in investing too much time in him. Look at his remarks in the press--lots of support for Crouch and Nando when they struggled but very little to say about Djibril.

Nando's the more peculiar case. Clearly Rafa rates him and stuck by him during his barren spell but he's chosen to sit him down of late, AFTER he scored a couple of goals...very curious! I think his strategy was, show confidence by playing him through the barren patch and he will come good and reward the faith in him. Who knows where things stand now, though.

I happen to think that man-management is a relative weak point for Rafa. He doesn't seem comfortable stroking egos and putting an arm around the shoulder, even if that's what's needed (remember Stevie's comments this summer about feeling neglected after Istanbul?). His approach is much more cold and analytical. I think for him its about the system and the quality of the player: he works out the tactics, selects the best players to fit the system and expects them to perform. If they do, they'll get a firm handshake at the final whistle and will appear on the teamsheet next week. But, if they don't and he thinks they have the talent to succeed, he seems a little perplexed. His comments about Kewell at times last season revealed a level of frustration that suggested that he saw Harry as a talented player who wasn't able (or willing) to make it work on the pitch In these situations I think Rafa's response is to keep playing them in the hope that the form will return (maybe the mantra 'form is temporary, class is permanent' works for Rafa too?). If they don't perform long term, though, he seems willing to cut his losses and sell them (maybe this is where we are with Nando?).

Overall, though, I'm still very happy with Rafa. He's got the team playing very well as a unit and we've definitely fixed our traveling blues from last season. We're much closer to Chelsea and have a real shot at the title next season. And, as far as league position is concerned, were it not for an unfortunate stumble at the wrong time and the late, somewhat perplexing, Man U resurgence, we would be sitting in 2nd at the moment. In fact, there isn't that much separating the top 3 at the moment, so I'm satisfied.

Now, if we could just beat Chelsea and win the FA Cup, I'd be over the moon...

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