Liverpool FC Forum

[kunilson]

Juventus didn't beat Arsenal because their match-fixing referee was unavailable.

[48-1119859832]

A) you were talking about the leagues specifically so the fact that Premiership sides beat them was relevant.
B) The side we put out against Juventus might of had plenty of foreigners but it also included Carragher Gerrard Crouch 3 England players.
Italy won the world cup, so what it does not mean that Serie A is suddenly better than the Premiership.
If you disagree i think recent stats on Anglo-Italian Champions league matches would prove you wrong.
Didnt the mighty Middlesbrough also knock out Roma in the Uefa cup last season ?

England were again knocked out in the quarters because of the managers inept tactics and the teams he put out, but thats another matter.

If Arsenal and Liverpool had beaten Juventus with a complete set of British players than I'd say that English players wouldn't need to go to foreign leagues. The fact that English players have shown down the years that very few show a great techincal ability, great intelligence and very few know how to use the ball to full effect. The fact that there has been an influx of foriegners down the years and a large increase in the last ten or so years, has led to the Premiership becoming such a great and mixed league.

I don't believe Crouch was a Liverpool player when we put Juventus out of the Champions League, I might be mistaken, but I seriously doubt it, because I only remember Carragher, Carson and Gerrard playing against Juventus.

I never said that because Italy won the World Cup, Seria A is better, what I said was that Seria A league posesses a great technical ability, and as most, if not all of the Italian players play in Seria A and yet they've gone onto the win the World Cup. It's the fact that the countries that have won the World Cup recently have posessed a great techincal presence, great intelligence and knew how to use the ball to full effect and win matches.

Seria A isn't the best league in the world, but it houses alot of techincal Italian players, how many English players could you call great techincal players, who use the ball well and play the foriegn way? Most English players are one trick ponies, pace and power and nothing more. There's is no intelligence with a lot of players, no techincal gift, the only English player I'd say is a great techincal player who makes intelligent moves and so on is Robbie Fowler.

What I'm saying is, it's the foriegn players that make the Premiership as great as it, get rid of them and you have nothing more than a bog standard, fast, long ball league.

Oh and England have had many great managers, Bobby Robson, Terry Veneables and others and they've had great players like Kevin Keegan, David Beckham, Alan Shearer and so forth and yet they still haven't won it.

[tubby]

England have only ever beaten Cameroon in a quarter final of the world cup on foreign soil. My point is that England have never been great and never will be unless the english players go to play in foreign leagues.

The premiership is fast and furious and very different to how the game is played elsewhere.

Also, the foreigner rule is illegal. You could say only 1 or 2 non EU players allowed. All talk about english or british is pointless as it is against the whole point of the EU to discriminate within it.

Plus there were few foreigners in the English leagues in teh 1970s and England were terrible then. The foreigners have been good for the game.

If we are to belive that the lack of English players playing in other leagues are the cause of our world cup faliure then how do you explain Italy winning the world cup?

How many of there key players play outside Italy?

Italy's top league Seria A is a very techincally gifted league where techincal attributes and a high level of intelligence is required. It's not a one trick pony league like the Premiership.

One trick Pony ?

So i guess its a fluke that we knocked out the top 2 teams in Italy enroute to lifting big ears last season was it ?

Thats a silly comment Oasis especially for a Liverpool supporter.

And if you want to go on this season Juventus didnt look tat impessive against Arsenal now did they.

The Italian league is in no way inferior nor superior to the Premiership. Its a different style and pace thats all.

Thierry Henry could have been considered a flop at his time at Juventus but in England he has flourished into quite possibly the greatest foreigner to grace the Premiership.

Would you say that the Premiership is easy and that is the only reason he done well here. The same can be applied to Patrick Viera in his time at Milan.

There is no way you can justify thos comments saying that the Premiership is a one trick pony. Sorry mate but I have t dissagree with you on that one. 

And you say we dont have technical players in this country. Id say of the top of my head Wayne Rooney has more natural and tecnical ability than any of the Italian strikers. Del Piero once posesed that skill but that Del Piero went away 3/4 years ago after a bad injury.

We got in the world cup becasue of Svens inability to make the team play to its potential.

He was unproved before he took over and is still unproven in my eyes.

If we wanted a good experienced manager we should have gone for the likes of Lippi or Hiddink. Everyone was barking on about the new managr has to be british but the truth is that the top four teams are all managed by non english managers.

[48-1119859832]

England have only ever beaten Cameroon in a quarter final of the world cup on foreign soil. My point is that England have never been great and never will be unless the english players go to play in foreign leagues.

The premiership is fast and furious and very different to how the game is played elsewhere.

Also, the foreigner rule is illegal. You could say only 1 or 2 non EU players allowed. All talk about english or british is pointless as it is against the whole point of the EU to discriminate within it.

Plus there were few foreigners in the English leagues in teh 1970s and England were terrible then. The foreigners have been good for the game.

If we are to belive that the lack of English players playing in other leagues are the cause of our world cup faliure then how do you explain Italy winning the world cup?

How many of there key players play outside Italy?

Italy's top league Seria A is a very techincally gifted league where techincal attributes and a high level of intelligence is required. It's not a one trick pony league like the Premiership.

One trick Pony ?

So i guess its a fluke that we knocked out the top 2 teams in Italy enroute to lifting big ears last season was it ?

Thats a silly comment Oasis especially for a Liverpool supporter.

And if you want to go on this season Juventus didnt look tat impessive against Arsenal now did they.

The Italian league is in no way inferior nor superior to the Premiership. Its a different style and pace thats all.

Thierry Henry could have been considered a flop at his time at Juventus but in England he has flourished into quite possibly the greatest foreigner to grace the Premiership.

Would you say that the Premiership is easy and that is the only reason he done well here. The same can be applied to Patrick Viera in his time at Milan.

There is no way you can justify thos comments saying that the Premiership is a one trick pony. Sorry mate but I have t dissagree with you on that one. 

And you say we dont have technical players in this country. Id say of the top of my head Wayne Rooney has more natural and tecnical ability than any of the Italian strikers. Del Piero once posesed that skill but that Del Piero went away 3/4 years ago after a bad injury.

You idiot, I'm talking about England, in response to Big Niall's post. Jesus what IQ do you have? Get a clue. 

[tubby]

England have only ever beaten Cameroon in a quarter final of the world cup on foreign soil. My point is that England have never been great and never will be unless the english players go to play in foreign leagues.

The premiership is fast and furious and very different to how the game is played elsewhere.

Also, the foreigner rule is illegal. You could say only 1 or 2 non EU players allowed. All talk about english or british is pointless as it is against the whole point of the EU to discriminate within it.

Plus there were few foreigners in the English leagues in teh 1970s and England were terrible then. The foreigners have been good for the game.

If we are to belive that the lack of English players playing in other leagues are the cause of our world cup faliure then how do you explain Italy winning the world cup?

How many of there key players play outside Italy?

Italy's top league Seria A is a very techincally gifted league where techincal attributes and a high level of intelligence is required. It's not a one trick pony league like the Premiership.

One trick Pony ?

So i guess its a fluke that we knocked out the top 2 teams in Italy enroute to lifting big ears last season was it ?

Thats a silly comment Oasis especially for a Liverpool supporter.

And if you want to go on this season Juventus didnt look tat impessive against Arsenal now did they.

The Italian league is in no way inferior nor superior to the Premiership. Its a different style and pace thats all.

Thierry Henry could have been considered a flop at his time at Juventus but in England he has flourished into quite possibly the greatest foreigner to grace the Premiership.

Would you say that the Premiership is easy and that is the only reason he done well here. The same can be applied to Patrick Viera in his time at Milan.

There is no way you can justify thos comments saying that the Premiership is a one trick pony. Sorry mate but I have t dissagree with you on that one. 

And you say we dont have technical players in this country. Id say of the top of my head Wayne Rooney has more natural and tecnical ability than any of the Italian strikers. Del Piero once posesed that skill but that Del Piero went away 3/4 years ago after a bad injury.

You idiot, I'm talking about England, in response to Big Niall's post. Jesus what IQ do you have? Get a clue. 

If you were rferrign to Nials post then why was I quoted dumbass. Learn to talk with some manners on here you imature long streak of p.iss. 

[48-1119859832]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

[tubby]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

Ive never been rude to you in the past Oasis.

And I was only pointing out the fact that we posess as many technically gifted players as Italy. 

[tubby]

Another point that people tend to overlook when trying to take pops at people for the world cup is that the press are . I mean if the were invading your privacy at every opportunity and slashing your face on the front page of the papers when your seen with another women that wont exacltly inspire you to give your all for the country now will it.

To be honest if I was in Svens position as the press me around that much (as much as id respect the players themelves) I wouldnt give a either. 15Million thank you very much.

[48-1119859832]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

Ive never been rude to you in the past Oasis.

And I was only pointing out the fact that we posess as many technically gifted players as Italy. 

I know, I'm sorry I'm having an offday and I've taken up some Internet gangsterism. 

I understand what you are saying Bav, I agree England do have a few techincally gifted players and some bright sparks, don't get me wrong, it's just not enough house a great technical ability and the intelligence. And you really do need a complete set of players who house good techincal attributes as well as shopwing a good amount of intelligence. The old traditional style of English football needs to learn to incorporate more of a foriegn style into the English game.

[tubby]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

Ive never been rude to you in the past Oasis.

And I was only pointing out the fact that we posess as many technically gifted players as Italy. 

I know, I'm sorry I'm having an offday and I've taken up some Internet gangsterism. 

I understand what you are saying Bav, I agree England do have a few techincally gifted players and some bright sparks, don't get me wrong, it's just not enough house a great technical ability and the intelligence. And you really do need a complete set of players who house good techincal attributes as well as shopwing a good amount of intelligence. The old traditional style of English football needs to learn to incorporate more of a foriegn style into the English game.

I think the difference is not homegrown players but coaches.

When is the last time Itay had a non Italian manager. In fact i dont even know if they have ever had one.

[Bad Bob]

Oasis...

Rave all you want about Italy's supposed "technical ability" but that's not why the won the World Cup.  They won because they had the best defense in the competition, which carried them through to the final (much like our CL run).  Before ZZ's penalty, Buffon had only conceded an own goal all tournament.  They defended like lions and took their chances, that's how they won.   Another reason they won?  Most of their players play in the positions that they play for their clubs--especially in the centre of the park's "engine room".  Pirlo and Gattuso for Italy operate a lot like Pirlo and Gattuso for Milan, except instead of having Kaka to work with, they have to tolerate that waste of space Totti (who's shear anonymity means that he doesn't hinder their game a jot).  Cannevaro and Matterazzi were a new partnership but their still accomplished central defenders for their clubs.  A final reason?  They had a rub of the green (U.S.A. game, Lucas Neill, Germany) and they made the most of it, which is what champions do.

My point?  They weren't 'technically superior' to England, they simply did the simple things much better.  If England had sorted themselves out tactically, gelled as a unit and got some luck, they could have put together a run and had a crack at the trophy (Hell, France looked dead in the water and every bit as hapless as England until Ribery caught the Spanish flat-footed and then they just went from strength to strength after that).

On another note...

"Technical ability," is a term that gets bandied about lots--too much!--because no one (except Stu ) knows precisely what the feck it means!  Intricate passing?  Superior dribbling?  Bicycle kicks in the 6 yard box?  What are we talking about here?

So, let's look at Italy's superior "technical ability" last night, shall we?  Their goal came from a thumping header off a corner.  Seems to me that that's the kind of goal you'll find week in, week out in the "bog standard" English topflight.  Intricate passing?  Nope.  When they did have possession--which was very rare since they kept giving France (particularly Vieira and Makelele) the ball back--they hit an awful lot of long, diagonal balls to the likes of Grosso, Toni and Zambrotta.  God, you'd think we were watching an English league match!  Even Pirlo, whom everyone is drooling over all of sudden, hits his fair share of balls over the top.  I'm not having this "Italy's technically superior to England" argument.  Illustrate what you mean by "technical" and maybe we can have a discussion.

[Bman]

If Seria A is so bad then how comes Italy have won the World Cup and England can't even get past the QF stage?

In all honesty, Serie A isnt what it used to be but thats besides the point. IMHO the football at this years world cup was pretty poor. Any number of average teams could of won that so because Italy won it dont assume serie A is better than the premiership.

[tubby]

If Seria A is so bad then how comes Italy have won the World Cup and England can't even get past the QF stage?

In all honesty, Serie A isnt what it used to be but thats besides the point. IMHO the football at this years world cup was pretty poor. Any number of average teams could of won that so because Italy have won it dont assume serie A is better than the premiership.

And im sure next season the Italian league will be even more different compared to this year. LOL I cant wait to see who gets relegated.

[48-1119859832]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

Ive never been rude to you in the past Oasis.

And I was only pointing out the fact that we posess as many technically gifted players as Italy. 

I know, I'm sorry I'm having an offday and I've taken up some Internet gangsterism. 

I understand what you are saying Bav, I agree England do have a few techincally gifted players and some bright sparks, don't get me wrong, it's just not enough house a great technical ability and the intelligence. And you really do need a complete set of players who house good techincal attributes as well as shopwing a good amount of intelligence. The old traditional style of English football needs to learn to incorporate more of a foriegn style into the English game.

I think the difference is not homegrown players but coaches.

When is the last time Itay had a non Italian manager. In fact i dont even know if they have ever had one.

This is an on going problem, England have had plenty of great players and great coaches and yet have failed when they could have won. It's a roots problem starting from the bottom of the ladder. If children and teenagers are allowed to express themselves on the pitch and are allowed to adopt a continental approach to their play at an early age it would do wonders for the English game. English players to me are too one dimensional, and I was the same playing football.

[Bman]

Read my other post, you know the reply to Ace. And I'll be disrespectful to who I choose, I'm not exactly treated with respect on here, but that's a matter neither here or there.

Ive never been rude to you in the past Oasis.

And I was only pointing out the fact that we posess as many technically gifted players as Italy. 

I know, I'm sorry I'm having an offday and I've taken up some Internet gangsterism. 

I understand what you are saying Bav, I agree England do have a few techincally gifted players and some bright sparks, don't get me wrong, it's just not enough house a great technical ability and the intelligence. And you really do need a complete set of players who house good techincal attributes as well as shopwing a good amount of intelligence. The old traditional style of English football needs to learn to incorporate more of a foriegn style into the English game.

I think the difference is not homegrown players but coaches.

When is the last time Itay had a non Italian manager. In fact i dont even know if they have ever had one.

This is an on going problem, England have had plenty of great players and great coaches and yet have failed when they could have won. It's a roots problem starting from the bottom of the ladder. If children and teenagers are allowed to express themselves on the pitch and are allowed to adopt a continental approach to their play at an early age it would do wonders for the English game. English players to me are too one dimensional, and I was the same playing football.

I'd agree with that