Liverpool FC Forum

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

Are you sure you will keep you job as press secretary for FSG now that they're selling?

Getting a bit boring now

I’ll put that down to the fact you can’t really answer any of the points

[devaney]

Are you sure you will keep you job as press secretary for FSG now that they're selling?

Getting a bit boring now

I’ll put that down to the fact you can’t really answer any of the points

The problem is all the positive facts spoil the narrative of the haters 

[Reg]

The clubs unwillingness to get rid of deadwood players and bring in needed replacements is the ONLY gripe I have with the owners, everything else is business related.

It's a no brainer to redevelop the Kemlyn Road stand next then we have one of the finest stadiums in Europe with 65,000+ capacity - that was a complete fantasy 10 years ago.
The training ground is one of, if not the best in the country.
The club management are improving our commercial deals and sponsorship value on an annual basis, we have the expertise in house.
The whole structure, manager, support staff and administration team is stable and secure.

What could be done better?

Compare with the bitters across the park.....   

[UvS xR4GEx]

I keep hearing the same sentence being bandied about "they left us in a much better state than they sold us".........

How is this remotely true if they end up selling us to another Hicks and Gillett consortium, a rich oil sheik that needs to sportswash his image through our club or a clueless muppet like a Boehly who fires Klopp after a few weeks into the job, because he isn't "winning enough"

In order to maximise their profits they will sell us to the highest bidder, they won't give a s**t about the buyer

A lot of you suffering from severe cognitive dissonance on this one.

The club is in a better place than when they bought us - it’s that simple , a new owner would be taking control of a club far better than what it was when FSG bought it

I should hope so as the new owners will be paying 4bn to buy us instead of the £300m FSG bought us for.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

I keep hearing the same sentence being bandied about "they left us in a much better state than they sold us".........

How is this remotely true if they end up selling us to another Hicks and Gillett consortium, a rich oil sheik that needs to sportswash his image through our club or a clueless muppet like a Boehly who fires Klopp after a few weeks into the job, because he isn't "winning enough"

In order to maximise their profits they will sell us to the highest bidder, they won't give a s**t about the buyer

A lot of you suffering from severe cognitive dissonance on this one.

The club is in a better place than when they bought us - it’s that simple , a new owner would be taking control of a club far better than what it was when FSG bought it

I should hope so as the new owners will be paying 4bn to buy us instead of the £300m FSG bought us for.

Sorry but what’s the issue there ?


Should the owners sell for less than the club is worth ?

Have you found in the accounts yet where the owners are taking money out instead of putting it all back in

[UvS xR4GEx]

They can sell it for whatever price they like as long it's the last we see of them.

They've tried every dirty trick in the book to try and rinse as much money out of the club as they can.

The increase in ticket sales, the Furlough of staff during the pandemic, the Super league, the endless amounts of sponsorship deals..

They have walked away with at least 70-80m profit after every year they've been here..

I'm  not a finance expert so I haven't got the ingoings and outgoings of the club, and I'm guessing you haven't neither?

But we are set for a record turnover estimated at £630m this year...

I'm not saying they're terrible owners, but they could have done alot more to help us stay on top.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

They can sell it for whatever price they like as long it's the last we see of them.

They've tried every dirty trick in the book to try and rinse as much money out of the club as they can.

The increase in ticket sales, the Furlough of staff during the pandemic, the Super league, the endless amounts of sponsorship deals..

They have walked away with at least 70-80m profit after every year they've been here..

I'm  not a finance expert so I haven't got the ingoings and outgoings of the club, and I'm guessing you haven't neither?

But we are set for a record turnover estimated at £630m this year...

I'm not saying they're terrible owners, but they could have done alot more to help us stay on top.

Sorry but how have they walked away with £70mil profit every year ?


And the accounts are public ?

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 5dd32d810d


Maybe read them and you can then see exactly what happens with the money

And btw our wage bill is roughly 2/3rds the income

And all those sponsership deals etc and even tickets where looking to bring money into the club for the club to spend


It’s quite clear that you are no financial - basically you don’t appear to have a club about the finances

[Eagle]

They can sell it for whatever price they like as long it's the last we see of them.

They've tried every dirty trick in the book to try and rinse as much money out of the club as they can.

The increase in ticket sales, the Furlough of staff during the pandemic, the Super league, the endless amounts of sponsorship deals..

They have walked away with at least 70-80m profit after every year they've been here..

I'm  not a finance expert so I haven't got the ingoings and outgoings of the club, and I'm guessing you haven't neither?

But we are set for a record turnover estimated at £630m this year...

I'm not saying they're terrible owners, but they could have done alot more to help us stay on top.

You don't need to be a finance expert. Our accounts are filed with UK companies house and are routinely scrutinised by fans and football finance experts. It's quite clear loads of people who are having a go at FSG in this thread have either done no research whatsoever or have no grasp of the subject matter but still feel they know everything and make wild accusations. There is plenty of room for sensible criticism of FSG and most of that will be either be the argument that they should have provided owner funding to run the club or have been prepared to fund activity via club debt. But most of the comments in this thread are quite frankly idiotic.

[Eagle]

The clubs unwillingness to get rid of deadwood players and bring in needed replacements is the ONLY gripe I have with the owners, everything else is business related.

It's a no brainer to redevelop the Kemlyn Road stand next then we have one of the finest stadiums in Europe with 65,000+ capacity - that was a complete fantasy 10 years ago.
The training ground is one of, if not the best in the country.
The club management are improving our commercial deals and sponsorship value on an annual basis, we have the expertise in house.
The whole structure, manager, support staff and administration team is stable and secure.

What could be done better?

Compare with the bitters across the park.....   

Is it FSG who are hanging onto the "dead wood" or is it the football people? I mean, I can imagine the conversation in the summer.

Klopp: Hey Mike. We need to bring in a midfielder this summer so we need £60+ mil for the transfer and £100K+ a week for the wages, and then whatever the agent fees are.
Mike Gordon: Oh ok. We already have 8 on the books that we're paying and you play 3 and sometimes only 2. The 8 includes Keita and Ox who cost £90mil and we've been paying them £120k a week for the past 4/5 years. You were adamant we wait a year to buy Keita and TBH Ox wouldn't even be here if you hadn't wanted to give him a big hug with a 1 year extension when he was injured. Do you think you and Julian can work on getting rid of one or two before we bring another midfielder onto the books?

[UvS xR4GEx]

They can sell it for whatever price they like as long it's the last we see of them.

They've tried every dirty trick in the book to try and rinse as much money out of the club as they can.

The increase in ticket sales, the Furlough of staff during the pandemic, the Super league, the endless amounts of sponsorship deals..

They have walked away with at least 70-80m profit after every year they've been here..

I'm  not a finance expert so I haven't got the ingoings and outgoings of the club, and I'm guessing you haven't neither?

But we are set for a record turnover estimated at £630m this year...

I'm not saying they're terrible owners, but they could have done alot more to help us stay on top.

Sorry but how have they walked away with £70mil profit every year ?


And the accounts are public ?

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 5dd32d810d


Maybe read them and you can then see exactly what happens with the money

And btw our wage bill is roughly 2/3rds the income

And all those sponsership deals etc and even tickets where looking to bring money into the club for the club to spend


It’s quite clear that you are no financial - basically you don’t appear to have a club about the finances

That's a dead link.

[Lallana in Pyjamas]

They can sell it for whatever price they like as long it's the last we see of them.

They've tried every dirty trick in the book to try and rinse as much money out of the club as they can.

The increase in ticket sales, the Furlough of staff during the pandemic, the Super league, the endless amounts of sponsorship deals..

They have walked away with at least 70-80m profit after every year they've been here..

I'm  not a finance expert so I haven't got the ingoings and outgoings of the club, and I'm guessing you haven't neither?

But we are set for a record turnover estimated at £630m this year...

I'm not saying they're terrible owners, but they could have done alot more to help us stay on top.

Sorry but how have they walked away with £70mil profit every year ?


And the accounts are public ?

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... 5dd32d810d


Maybe read them and you can then see exactly what happens with the money

And btw our wage bill is roughly 2/3rds the income

And all those sponsership deals etc and even tickets where looking to bring money into the club for the club to spend


It’s quite clear that you are no financial - basically you don’t appear to have a club about the finances

That's a dead link.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

[kazza]

From the Echo

There are names definitely ruled out, two of them from the Middle East, among them Bahrain's sovereign wealth fund Mumtalakat Holdings and Emirates Investment Authority, the sovereign wealth fund of the UAE.

British billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe, founder of chemicals firm INEOS and owner of French side OGC Nice, has ruled himself out of the running. The Oldham-born Manchester United fan was in the race for Chelsea and also expressed an interest in taking over from the Glazer family at Old Trafford.

RedBird Capital Partners, the New York-based investment fund that owns 11 per cent of FSG through a $750m deal struck in 2021, won't be part of the conversation either, despite having been erroneously linked.

Indian billionaire Mukesh Ambani, 65, was reported in the Mirror on Sunday to have approached FSG representatives over a potential deal, although reports in India suggest that link has been slapped down with a representative of his firm, Reliance Industries, telling India's APB News that the link was 'fake'.

[devaney]

UvS

In one breath you openly admit that you are no financial expert and in the next you suggest FSG are taking £70m a year out of the club.

I am amazed that you are actually criticising FSG for increasing the clubs revenue via sponsorship. That simply demonstrates that you really haven’t got a clue about how a football club is run. And there is a very simple reason why more companies are interested in providing sponsorship - THE SUCCESS OF THE CLUB - but let’s forget that because it doesn’t fit with your narrative. And just how many companies that are a lot more profitable than LFC took advantage of furlough? The club employs 700 people and made considerable losses as a result of the pandemic. The ticket price issue admittedly was naive but it was rectified very quickly. As for the ESL FSG very quickly realised that they had made a huge mistake and publicly apologised. The mistakes that you have highlighted, which have had no long term detrimental effect on the club, literally pale into insignificance, compared with the success they have brought to the club.

You suggest they could have done more with a willingness to almost ignore what they have achieved. Just tell me where the money for additional players would have come from and remember they are running a sustainable business so don’t suggest loans with unaffordable repayments that are not sustainable. And don’t bother suggesting that John Henry should simply give the club money from his vast wealth. He is a businessman not a philanthropist !! Take a look at Eagle’s comments above about buying more midfield players that he puts so succinctly.

You really do need to have a look at how how little the club actually makes in terms profit before and after tax as a percentage of revenue. The figures you have quoted are nonsense and plucked out of thin air to suit your somewhat pathetic narrative. And please don’t suggest that they are siphoning money out of the club in a fraudulent manner.That just makes you look stupid.

FSG have invested huge sums in players and infrastructure. VVD Ali and  Fabinho were all bought partly as a result of the Coutinho deal. It would have been very easy to have purchased considerably cheaper options and for the owners to take massive dividends in the same way as the Glazer’s. Do you honestly think Klopp would have signed a new contract if they were even half as bad as you suggest?

Please show me a better and more successful owner in the PL that isn’t  backed by the sovereign wealth of a country.

[UvS xR4GEx]

Have we really been that successful over the last 12 years?

1- Premier league
1- Champions League
1- League Cup
1- FA Cup

I'm not counting the Super Cup, The world club Cup or the Community shield as they are glorified Friendly trophies.


I'm not anti FSG let's get that clear. I just think they could have done alot more. They knew nothing about the Club before they bought us, and it was clearly just a investment for FSG. And when they walk away with Billions of profit then you can't knock them, it's good buisness on their part.

As a fan we want success, and if FSG stayed another 10 years we wouldn't add another league title in that time. It's perfect timing for them and the club to move forward without them at the helm.

[Reg]

Should we have won more?
Ask a different question > what would it have taken to win more league titles?

2010–11 Manchester United 
2011–12 Manchester City 
2012–13 Manchester United 
2013–14 Manchester City
2014–15 Chelsea
2015–16 Leicester City
2016–17 Chelsea 
2017–18 Manchester City
2018–19 Manchester City
2019–20 Liverpool 
2020–21 Manchester City
2021–22 Manchester City

Man City won it 6 times in the last 12 seasons, Chelsea twice, YerUnited twice, Leicester once and LFC once.
8 times Arab/Russian mega money won the league, twice a declining United but who spent a net £903 million in the last 10 seasons to stay in the top 4.
Leicester was obviously a fluke and LFC battled their way to a title having a team of over achievers.

Man Utd top Europe for net spend on transfers over past 10 seasons; 14 Premier League clubs rank in top 20; Current top-flight teams in England have spent six times more than Serie A, 10 times more than La Liga and 12 times more than Bundesliga; Ligue 1 clubs register surplus over decade.

Net transfer spending over last ten seasons.
Rank Club Spent Earned Net spend
1 Man Utd £1.3B £394.8M £903M
2 Man City £1.4B £600.6M £826.6M
3 PSG         £1.2B £423.4M £790.4M
4 Barcelona £1.4B £823.2M £546M
5 Arsenal £864.4M £374.6M £489.7M
6 Juventus £1.3B £824M £471.2M
7 AC Milan £742.6M £379.7M £362.9M
8 Everton £765.2M £404.9M £360.4M
9 Aston Villa £588.8M £232.7M £356.2M
10 Chelsea £1.4B £1B        £346.9M
11 Inter         £888.7M £565.3M £323.4M
12 West Ham £567.8M £253.7M £314.2M
13 B. Munich £684.6M £379.7M £304.9M
14 Liverpool £947.5M £656M £291.5M
15 Newcastle £544.3M £259.6M £284.8M
16 Tottenham £850.9M £568.7M £282.2M
17 C. Palace £377.2M £131.9M £245.3M
18 Leicester £555.2M £324.2M £231M
19 Brighton £334.3M £126M £208.3M
20 Wolves £404.9M £197.4M £207.5M
Source: Football Observatory for SKYSPORTS

As can be seen above, to compete with YerUnited, City, PSG etc.. long term we have to have the resources to spend a net £70-80-90 million a year on new players.
FSG simply aren't in that league, but that is the cost of winning the league 3 years out of 5 on a regular basis. PSG and City demonstrate that.

So have FSG who also need to fund the Boston Red Sox under invested in LFC?   No. They simply don't have the unlimited resources of Arabs/Russians.
Have they failed to invest in the club?   No, 2 new stands, training ground and players and manager demonstrate that.
Has the team failed to achieve?   No. Whilst disappointing not to win the league, we have come second to City 3 times in the last 10 seasons. Without City's billions we would have won those titles. We've lost 2 European cup finals and won it once. No other team can compete with that record.

FSG / LFC are faced with the question do we want to win the league at all cost? If so sell to the Arabs and bye bye FSG. But is that what we really want?

I like FSG, I like their club development, Klopp obviously has a great relationship with them (based on last years £16 million pay packet) so sometimes it's better not to rock the boat. Yes he needs funds to rebuild but if we're able to do that with FSG still at the helm, that's good enough for me.

All rise.