Liverpool FC Forum

[red till i die!!]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/11/07/three-reasons-why-liverpool-looking-new-investment/

You have to subscribe to read that Reg. Any chance of a copy and paste ?

[Reg]

Three reasons why Liverpool are looking for new investment

In the world of Manchester City, even billionaire organisations will occasionally sound like Oliver begging for more gruel

By Chris Bascombe
7 November 2022 • 8:55pm

With poetic choreography, Manchester City released their annual accounts minutes before it emerged that Fenway Sports Group are hoping to put a price on the sale of Liverpool. City, top of the Deloitte Money League as well as multiple Premier League Champions, announced club record revenues of £613 million, with commercial revenues increasing in 2021-22 from £271.7m to £309.5m.

Given that, the statement delivered by FSG confirming the club will ‘consider new shareholders’ is perhaps most accurately read in the form of one prolonged sigh. The most mischievous minds could connect the events as a Liverpool concession more than a coincidence.

"Fair enough, Sheikh. You win. Have it all,” John W. Henry might be telling the football world by inviting Kop bids. “We’ll take the first £6bn dollar offer and wish English football good luck. Enjoy those one-horse races for the next decade.”

The reality seems less dramatic (for now, at least), Liverpool’s owners seemingly on a fishing expedition to establish the true market value of their prized asset. The sale of Chelsea for £4.3 billion will certainly have turned the heads of some of the more hands-off partners within the Boston-based organisation.

Although there is no expectation of a Kop sale in the near future, who knows how Henry and his fellow shareholders will react if the mother of all dividends comes their way given they bought Liverpool for a paltry £300 million in 2010. Those who know the Americans well have always predicted they would sell while the club was on its upward trajectory rather than the other side of the slope.

Since buying the club, FSG have openly pursued further investment, although in previous statements (as in 2018 when interest materialised) they were more belligerent with ‘not for sale' messaging.

To understand the FSG ethos it is always informative to go back to what Henry said upon collecting the keys to the Shankly Gates.

"I don't have 'Sheikh' in front of my name.
"People now think that Boston [Red Sox] is on a par economically with the New York Yankees, which is just not true. We have gone toe-to-toe with the Yankees, even though they have got a much higher revenue. When we looked at Liverpool the first thing that struck us was that there are opportunities here to really build a winner because the revenue potential around the world makes this a global football club.”

Liverpool have rebuilt incrementally, first by expanding commercial activities and collecting the rising broadcast money, then matchday revenues with the new Main Stand and soon-to-be-complete Anfield Road End.

Jurgen Klopp has been the most prolific fund-raiser of all, especially in leading the side to three Champions League finals and all those UEFA cheques.

Success has enabled FSG to maintain self-sufficiency, increased cash flow subsidising wage increases and assisting recruitment.  Yet in the world of Manchester City, and perhaps Newcastle United in the future, it is still not enough. Even billionaire organisations will occasionally sound like Oliver begging for more gruel.

That’s why FSG were led to the ill-advised Super League proposals in 2021, and why they sold a 10 per cent share of their whole company to RedBird Capital soon after.

City’s extraordinary commercial revenues are especially galling for Liverpool as this is the one area the Merseysiders felt they could go toe-to-toe economically. 

Liverpool’s commercial revenues are expected to be around £240 million in their next published accounts, which is a vast improvement on what they were 12 years ago but nowhere near enough to outbid City’s contract offer for the next Erling Haaland.

That’s what Klopp was talking about with his ‘no-one can compete with City’ soliloquy before the clubs met last month. His remarks barely scratch the surface of the levels of frustration felt by some at Liverpool at a perceived lack of curiosity as to how City’s commercial team is more successful, not only than Liverpool’s, but of gilded sporting institutions like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Manchester United.

So where, and how, can Liverpool keep finding the resources to ensure they are not outbid for Jude Bellingham, or whoever their next prime transfer target might be? Especially if they drop out of the top four.

There will be no tolerance for transfer budget cuts, but FSG will never go down the 'buy now, worry about paying off the debt later' approach of their predecessors Gerorge Gillett Jr and Tom Hicks.

Although Liverpool's match-going fans appreciate the constraints of the FSG strategy (the only dissent against the owners has been after specific mistakes such ticket pricing and the Super League plans), the online world is brimful of those demanding Henry and co adopt a voodoo economic approach so extreme even Truss and Kwarteng would blush.

Although Klopp was shot down by those who claimed that Liverpool have been competing for most of the last five years, his critics were disingenuous when ignoring how much Liverpool have punched above their financial weight by sparring with and occasionally knocking City out.

The reality that the tribalistic football world does not want to confront – and one in which Arsenal fans may soon sympathise with should they enjoy a magnificent season with a record points tally and no title – is that even some of the biggest clubs are feeling the pinch of an obvious material disadvantage.

Those who are not already owned by a nation may have only one option left to explore: how to sell to one.

[Reg]

3-4 separate stories in The Guardian today as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/sport

[red till i die!!]

Cheers Reg.

I did read on the Echo last night that if a sale went through at 3.6 billion it would represent a 1,100 percent return on the initial investment    Absolute madness.

[red till i die!!]

Every article I am reading is laying the blame at City and soon to be Newcastle for ruining the English game. It appears to be common knowledge among other clubs and journalists that these clubs are cheating and falsifying their accounts but yet no action gets taken against them.

My understanding is that the clubs in the prem have the power to nail it in the bud with something simple like a vote. They have been banging on about City for years but yet allow Newcastle to be bought by similar. None of this makes sense at all unless the other clubs are more than happy to see the attention on someone else's accounts and not their own.  At the end of the day if these clubs can cheat their accounts then so can the rest.

If they really want this stopped then they need to rally and stop it. They also have the power to impose spending and wage caps as well. But No they are more than happy to pass the buck to another authority and then sit back and continue whinging that they can't compete.

[Reg]

It's called corruption, Red. Everyones' got their snout in the trough.

[Boocity]

Its easier for city to increase revenue, most of their major sponsors are AD government companies, Mansour can just feed his own cash through these companies. Take Etihad for instance, they were on their knees during covid and even before yet still can pump hundreds of millions into city. The whole things a farce and the only way to stop it is for FIFA forbidding any government owned entity from investing in a football club.

[redshade]

Sadly the only way we'll be able to compete is if we have similar ownership. Rumours going on that DIC reigniting past interest.

[Reg]

I'd rather FSG sell 49% and continue to run the club which until now they have done extremely well. Last thing I want is a change of ownership and management to be honest. Just bring the wanger and leave the rest to the existing team.

[kazza]

Sadly the only way we'll be able to compete is if we have similar ownership. Rumours going on that DIC reigniting past interest.

Even DIC is no Abu Dhabi or Saudi, they built what they have on credit whereas the others have oil. I can’t see Abu Dhabi or Saudi losing in a ***** contest with DIC. Everyone talks of the sheiks of Dubai, but it is Abu Dhabi that has the money, it is why in the credit crunch they went belly up and were bailed out by Abu Dhabi.

[red till i die!!]

Its easier for city to increase revenue, most of their major sponsors are AD government companies, Mansour can just feed his own cash through these companies. Take Etihad for instance, they were on their knees during covid and even before yet still can pump hundreds of millions into city. The whole things a farce and the only way to stop it is for FIFA forbidding any government owned entity from investing in a football club.

Fifa, Uefa and even the English FA have almost no control over the premier league. It's a private company owned by the 20 clubs. Uefa have full control over European games but a host of clubs tried to usurp that with the ESL. Klopps red card against Leeds got no punishment and the FA aren't happy about it so are appealing to the premier league to give him a ban. The premier league have their own committee elected by the clubs who oversee it and they make the rules.

Bottom line here is the premier league clubs as long as they have a majority can do what they want. Put spending caps, Wage caps and could even ban clubs if they wanted.

It's the most corrupt league in Europe built on pure greed.

FSG are as bad as they come. They never wanted to put anything in and more than likely lobbied hard for everyone else to do the same. FFP was and is an utter joke from It's inception.  Both Henry and Werner are worth Billions so have the ability to put money in and get it back on the sale price just like abramovich did. They could let one of their own companies sponsor us either. Boston Globe maybe ?
If we go for 3.5 billion that is a "One Thousand, One Hundred Percent profit". Neo capitalism at its finest. Chances are it will go for more than that as well.

Can any one on here really say they deserve that money for what they have put in ?.

[kazza]

“ Ratcliffe is a Manchester United fan, with Bloomberg’s billionaire index claiming the 70-year-old has a net worth of around £8.7 billion, while Forbes puts his net worth at around £13.48 billion.

Despite being linked to a possible takeover, Ratcliffe has issued a statement saying that he is not interested in purchasing Liverpool. The billionaire, who already owns Ligue 1 club Nice and Swiss Super League outfit FC Lausanne-Sport, believes there is “better value” in his current projects than buying Liverpool”

He’s right, at that price (same for Chelsea) there is no value or no upside. Better to buy a Newcastle for 200 million and pump 2 billion into it. I worry there are no buyers with big enough ambitions and a wallet to match out there. If we were valued at 300 million maybe, but not at 4 billion. They wouldn’t even make 5% return.

[kazza]

Its easier for city to increase revenue, most of their major sponsors are AD government companies, Mansour can just feed his own cash through these companies. Take Etihad for instance, they were on their knees during covid and even before yet still can pump hundreds of millions into city. The whole things a farce and the only way to stop it is for FIFA forbidding any government owned entity from investing in a football club.

Fifa, Uefa and even the English FA have almost no control over the premier league. It's a private company owned by the 20 clubs. Uefa have full control over European games but a host of clubs tried to usurp that with the ESL. Klopps red card against Leeds got no punishment and the FA aren't happy about it so are appealing to the premier league to give him a ban. The premier league have their own committee elected by the clubs who oversee it and they make the rules.

Bottom line here is the premier league clubs as long as they have a majority can do what they want. Put spending caps, Wage caps and could even ban clubs if they wanted.

It's the most corrupt league in Europe built on pure greed.

FSG are as bad as they come. They never wanted to put anything in and more than likely lobbied hard for everyone else to do the same. FFP was and is an utter joke from It's inception.  Both Henry and Werner are worth Billions so have the ability to put money in and get it back on the sale price just like abramovich did. They could let one of their own companies sponsor us either. Boston Globe maybe ?
If we go for 3.5 billion that is a "One Thousand, One Hundred Percent profit". Neo capitalism at its finest. Chances are it will go for more than that as well.

Can any one on here really say they deserve that money for what they have put in ?.

They did it though. They kept debt off the club, they expanded the world wide base, they improved the stadium and training facilities. They got Klopp when he was available, gave him the power to buy the team he wanted. At the end of the day it was their effort that turned us into a 4 billion club, the fact they did all that without dipping into their pocket makes the point even more. They made us a very well run club and an attractive proposition to buy.

[red till i die!!]

What they are doing is pushing the debt down the road to the next buyer kazza which will ultimately be the end of the Club. Unless that money comes from an oil state but that is not what the fans of this club want and rightfully so.

They got lucky with Klopp bringing the success that he did and they did not give him the power to buy the team he wanted. He has had to make do with what was on offer and often it was little or nothing. We had to go a few seasons ago with a makeshift defence and this season with a midfield so no they don't back him. No klopp equates to one league cup. They did appoint him so credit for that but he brought the success on the field which is what matters.

We always had a global fan base kazza that other clubs envied. We have always been a premium brand capable of growth but just because we are owned by them doesn't mean they made us that. LFC have alway been one of the top clubs in the game.

Would they have been interested in another club other than us. The answer would be No.

[kazza]

I agree with you, the worry is at 4 billion FSG would not have bought us either and who else might. At 300 million we were a steal but at 4 billion even with our fan base we are expensive. Cannot see anyone buying us, taking us higher and doing it without huge debt. Only three buyers that could make a difference…. Saudi, Abu Dhabi and Qatar. Two on that list already have premiere league clubs so cannot buy another one, the other one namely Qatar are spending buckets on PSG, could they afford another project?

I don’t care about this owner or that owner, I care about the club both on the field and off it and I’m worried about the instability that will come with new ownership.