Liverpool FC Forum

[devaney]

Excellent post Reg

[kazza]

Should we have won more?
Ask a different question > what would it have taken to win more league titles?

2010–11 Manchester United 
2011–12 Manchester City 
2012–13 Manchester United 
2013–14 Manchester City
2014–15 Chelsea
2015–16 Leicester City
2016–17 Chelsea 
2017–18 Manchester City
2018–19 Manchester City
2019–20 Liverpool 
2020–21 Manchester City
2021–22 Manchester City

Man City won it 6 times in the last 12 seasons, Chelsea twice, YerUnited twice, Leicester once and LFC once.
8 times Arab/Russian mega money won the league, twice a declining United but who spent a net £903 million in the last 10 seasons to stay in the top 4.
Leicester was obviously a fluke and LFC battled their way to a title having a team of over achievers.

Man Utd top Europe for net spend on transfers over past 10 seasons; 14 Premier League clubs rank in top 20; Current top-flight teams in England have spent six times more than Serie A, 10 times more than La Liga and 12 times more than Bundesliga; Ligue 1 clubs register surplus over decade.

Net transfer spending over last ten seasons.
Rank Club Spent Earned Net spend
1 Man Utd £1.3B £394.8M £903M
2 Man City £1.4B £600.6M £826.6M
3 PSG         £1.2B £423.4M £790.4M
4 Barcelona £1.4B £823.2M £546M
5 Arsenal £864.4M £374.6M £489.7M
6 Juventus £1.3B £824M £471.2M
7 AC Milan £742.6M £379.7M £362.9M
8 Everton £765.2M £404.9M £360.4M
9 Aston Villa £588.8M £232.7M £356.2M
10 Chelsea £1.4B £1B        £346.9M
11 Inter         £888.7M £565.3M £323.4M
12 West Ham £567.8M £253.7M £314.2M
13 B. Munich £684.6M £379.7M £304.9M
14 Liverpool £947.5M £656M £291.5M
15 Newcastle £544.3M £259.6M £284.8M
16 Tottenham £850.9M £568.7M £282.2M
17 C. Palace £377.2M £131.9M £245.3M
18 Leicester £555.2M £324.2M £231M
19 Brighton £334.3M £126M £208.3M
20 Wolves £404.9M £197.4M £207.5M
Source: Football Observatory for SKYSPORTS

As can be seen above, to compete with YerUnited, City, PSG etc.. long term we have to have the resources to spend a net £70-80-90 million a year on new players.
FSG simply aren't in that league, but that is the cost of winning the league 3 years out of 5 on a regular basis. PSG and City demonstrate that.

So have FSG who also need to fund the Boston Red Sox under invested in LFC?   No. They simply don't have the unlimited resources of Arabs/Russians.
Have they failed to invest in the club?   No, 2 new stands, training ground and players and manager demonstrate that.
Has the team failed to achieve?   No. Whilst disappointing not to win the league, we have come second to City 3 times in the last 10 seasons. Without City's billions we would have won those titles. We've lost 2 European cup finals and won it once. No other team can compete with that record.

FSG / LFC are faced with the question do we want to win the league at all cost? If so sell to the Arabs and bye bye FSG. But is that what we really want?

I like FSG, I like their club development, Klopp obviously has a great relationship with them (based on last years £16 million pay packet) so sometimes it's better not to rock the boat. Yes he needs funds to rebuild but if we're able to do that with FSG still at the helm, that's good enough for me.

All rise.

What Arabs Reg? the good ones have been taken 

[Reg]

Ali Baba and the forty oil sheikhs!

[Reg]

Liverpool owners confirm key executive Michael Gordon is 'stepping back' from his role

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -stepping/

Liverpool owner Fenway Sports Group has confirmed that Jurgen Klopp’s key executive ally Michael Gordon is "stepping back" from day-to-day duties in a significant power shift at Anfield.

Gordon, widely recognised as one of the major architects of the Kop renaissance, is to delegate much of his power to chief executive Billy Hogan.

In the first public announcement since FSG stated its willingness to sell some or all of its Liverpool shares, Sam Kennedy, a partner and the chief executive of the Boston Red Sox, said: "Mike Gordon has done an extraordinary job of leading the club for the past decade-plus. He will be taking a step back from that role and Billy Hogan will be taking on more and more.”

Gordon has enjoyed a hands-on role at Anfield since 2012, when he was tasked with bringing stability after the ill-fated experiment of Damien Comolli as Director of Football.

It was Gordon, alongside the man he appointed as Sporting Director Michael Edwards, who implemented the ‘moneyball’ principles that owner John W Henry wanted to apply to English football when he first led the purchase of Liverpool’s in 2010. After being transferred from his role with FSG in Boston, Gordon assumed the chief responsibilities for contract and transfer negotiations and was in many respects a modern day successor to the great former chief executive Peter Robinson.

The biggest coup was luring Jurgen Klopp to Liverpool in 2015, Gordon, Henry and chairman Tom Werner having determined he was the perfect fit.

Since then, Gordon and Klopp have become friends as much as colleagues, so there will be inevitable concern as to how distant their professional relationship will now be.

After Edwards’ exit last summer - he was replaced by his former assistant Julian Ward - this is proving a significant period of change behind the scenes at Anfield.

Club sources say Gordon was already delegating more responsibilities to Hogan as part of a period of transition.

Coming so soon after FSG confirmed it is stepping up its pursuit of investment as it tries to put a firm market value on Liverpool, it is unavoidable that a connection will be made between Gordon easing away from responsibilities amid the possibility of a significant offer for Liverpool materialising.

There remain mixed messages on the state of play regarding a possible buy-out of FSG, however. The reality is the American owners have been prepared to listen to bids for most of their period in charge, but no realistic proposals have yet emerged.

In 2016, FSG appointed investment bankers Allen & Co to deal with any expressions of interest in the club.

The significant recent development is FSG's appointment of Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to engage with possible buyers and - unlike in the past - the notable absence of any robust public statement ruling out a full sale, even though club sources are adamant the owners are engaged in what is primarily an "exploratory" process and do not anticipate a buy-out in the near future.

Kennedy reaffirmed the message that the club is uncertain what direction a share sale might take.

“There has been a lot of interest from numerous potential partners considering investment into the club,” Kennedy told the Boston Globe, the newspaper owned by John W Henry. “It is early days in terms of exploring possibilities for possible investment into Liverpool."

“Great companies grow by adding value to their business. One way to increase that value from time to time is to sell assets or add investors. Does that mean FSG is going to sell Liverpool? I do not know.

“It's John Henry's, Tom Werner's and Mike Gordon's job to responsibly run Fenway Sports Group and they felt this was an ideal time to explore possible opportunities for investment into the club.”
+++

Not good....

[kazza]

Agreed. Something has happened to change the dynamic. A fallout between some of the people involved?England’s bleak economic forecast?greed?…. Not sure! Just know that it will add volatility when we were so stable.

[Reg]

Tom Werner and John Henry are both 72 years old, Mike Gordon, as president of FSG is just 57. It could be a case of Gordon being recalled to Boston to run the show with Tom and John taking a less active part. The move would also demonstrate to new owners that Gordon is FSG and not LFC. If FSG sell just a % of LFC then I guess Gordon would continue to oversee the running of LFC with Billy Hogan (sounds like a Marvel Comic character) just as he would run the other businesses. Maybe... after 12 years Gordon just wants to go home.

[Reg]

Liverpool executive: We're for sale
They will be seeking offers of at least £4 billion, but it remains to be seen what materialises

By Chris Bascombe  18 November 2022 • 2:54pm

Liverpool chairman Tom Werner has publicly confirmed for the first time that Fenway Sports Group are “exploring a sale”.

Werner is the first FSG executive directly attached to Liverpool to publicly speak about a process which has gathered momentum since early last week, although he went on to say there is no imminent prospect of the club changing hands.

“We’re exploring a sale, but there’s no urgency, no time frame for us, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s business as usual,” Werner told the Boston Globe, the newspaper which is owned by FSG’s largest shareholder and principal Liverpool owner John W. Henry.

“One outcome could be our continued stewardship for quite a while.”

Werner’s remarks reaffirm what club sources said when FSG issued its statement last week, that the appointment of investment bankers Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley amounts to a fishing expedition to assess Liverpool’s market value and assess if a partial or full sale is most palatable to the leading shareholders.

Clearly all options are on the table as and when bids are tabled.

FSG’s appointment of the banks and subsequent remarks about seeking investment has inevitably created a period of uncertainty regarding Liverpool’s future.

Adding to that is the fact that Jurgen Klopp’s key executive ally, Michael Gordon, is ‘stepping back’ from day-to-day duties. That represents a significant power shift at Anfield, with chief executive Billy Hogan assuming some of Gordon’s responsibilities.

So soon after the exit of Sporting Director Michael Edwards – who was replaced with his assistant Julian Ward in the summer – the club is eager to emphasise the idea of a smooth transition rather than one of tumult. History, and results on the field, will be the judge as to how consequential these changes are.

The biggest earthquake is yet to come if FSG sell the club which they purchased for just £300 million in 2010.

In truth, Liverpool’s American owners have been ready to listen to offers for most of their period in charge.

In 2016, FSG appointed investment bankers Allen & Co to deal with any expressions of interest in the club. The key difference then was the club publicly insisted a full sale was not part of their agenda.

The shift in FSG's position can be seen as a direct response to the recent sale of Chelsea, which was valued at £2.3 billion with the promise of a further £2 billion being invested.

Liverpool will be seeking offers of at least £4 billion. However, given the club would have been receptive to offers in that ballpark for many years, it remains to be seen what materialises and when, especially given the current economic climate.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... ay-sports/

[kazza]

Boston journalist outlines “4 scenarios” for FSG & possible Liverpool sale
November 19, 2022
Jack Sear



After Fenway Sports Group confirmed they are exploring the possible sale of Liverpool FC, a leading journalist from a John Henry-owned newspaper has outlined four possible scenarios.

On Thursday, the Boston Globe carried quotes from FSG partner Sam Kennedy who revealed that there had been “a lot of interest” in the club.


A day later, FSG founder Tom Werner said Liverpool’s owners were indeed “exploring a sale” but said there was “no time frame” and “no urgency.”

Now, Michael Silverman, the Globe journalist who published those comments, has explained how he feels there are four possible scenarios for FSG and the potential sale of Liverpool.

He too believes any sale or investment clearly isn’t imminent, but believes there is a reason why FSG have made the decision to explore their options now.

“I believe there’s four scenarios,” Silverman told BBC Radio Merseyside on Friday.


“One is someone just buys the club outright, another is someone buys a minority share now and over the years that becomes a majority share.

“Or, they simply get new partners who invest in the club, and Fenway Sports Group retains majority control. Or, they simply don’t sell at all.

“Maybe there’s a fifth scenario, and I’m not quite sure what that would be, but from everything I’ve heard and other members of the media have reported, everything is on the table.

“Yes, it’s very much in the early days, it doesn’t at all feel as if anything is imminent or about to happen.

“And as far as what the outcome is, you can read between the lines that whenever someone from Fenway Sports Group decides to speak publicly, you have to wonder why are they doing this, and why are they doing this now?


“From everything that’s been out there, they’re early in the exploration stage and they want to explore every single option, see what’s out there, so that’s where we are at this moment.”

When pressed on why FSG could be looking to sell up, Silverman referred to the European Super League fiasco and FSG’s struggles to “grapple” how European football works.

He also added that Financial Fair Play is “a big concern” for Liverpool’s owners, with Jurgen Klopp recently admitting that there is no way the club can compete with the financial backing of the likes of Man City and Newcastle.

“They’re still trying to grapple how it’s different in the Premier League and European soccer to north American sports,” Silverman continued.

“Not just with the threat of relegation, but not the guaranteed revenues every year. You have to qualify for the Champions League.

“European fans don’t think anything should be handed to them. You have to earn it. I think that’s something they learned the hard way, at least Liverpool did.

“I think Financial Fair Play is very much a big concern for them, as more nation states become owned teams in the Premier League, and I think you’re going to see an increasing activism from U.S. owned teams to try and compete.”

[kazza]

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/11/julian-ward-stepping-down-as-liverpool-sporting-director-after-just-months-in-new-role/?fbclid=IwAR1BUWz-UKrHo3cWUhmijqGqWgLHcL6jed5Kwtpq7OVEz5435YuI3F_Cj8w

[Reg]

This is worrying, there is a deep upheaval going on at Anfield. What's going on....?

[kazza]

This is worrying, there is a deep upheaval going on at Anfield. What's going on....?

It seems like the owners waited for the WC to make all these announcements as if we were playing, this uncertainty could have impacted results.

[Reg]

Multiple Resignations – Liverpool FC Currently Feels Chaotic

Potential sale, key people resigning, squad in need of rebuild
Paul Tomkins.

Good read:
https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/mul ... auto_share
++

There's something amiss when 2 directors of football leave within 12 months stating they need a break from football, maybe we have to reconsider the circumstances under which Mike Gordon has taken a step back from the running of the club.

There's probably an element of burn out and frustration as Ward would have more fun spending possible Arab millions than it's been with FSG so it looks to me that the scouts and Ward have been finding the players and setting up the deals then FSG didn't want to pay and the resignations have pressured FSG into either bringing in investors or getting out entirely to be able to compete with the new money. I wouldn't be surprised if either Mike Edwards or Ward head to Newcastle shortly.

Challenging times but the skill will be to replace them with good people and allow momentum to get us back on track.

[Penguins]

No wonder they're looking to sell. The team is OLD and only Eliot and Carvalho prevents it from being the oldest in the league.
In couple of years the value of the squad will drop like a rock when players like Salah, VVD, Matip, Allison etc starts getting close to their mid 30s.
Only a moron would pay anything close to what FSG wants as they've spent little money in the past 4 years on the squad.
But sorry, FSG are gods and can do no wrong and the time period between 2010 -2015 does not exist....

[kazza]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bitterly-disappointed-john-henry-already-25640328

[kazza]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1705151/liverpool-news-reds-takeover-bid-saudi-arabia-qatar-chiefs