Liverpool FC Forum

[god_bless_john_houlding]

We've spent nearly 150 million in the same time Chelsea have spent 300 million. In the same time Everton have spent 50 million or so, Villa around the same, City around 40 million. So spending practically 100 million more than those four, why are we still fighting with them? This is why money isn't an excuse for why we're so far behind.

Time isn't a valid excuse either, as we're behind Chelsea, when Avram Grant has been in the job for a matter of months. Also O'Niel and Eriksson have been managing their respective clubs for a much shorer time than Benitez has been at Liverpool, yet they're at the same level. Steve Coppell has been managing Reading for longer than Keane has been Sunderland, Bruce at Wigan or McCleish at Birmingham but Reading are below all three of those. So is the time arguement only valid to Benitez?

If we were Derby fans I could accept it, Jewell hasn't had a penny and he's only been in charge for a matter of months, so I could understand people using them as excuses for being bottom of the table. But we're not Derby, we're Liverpool. We've had a man in charge for the good part of four years, aswell as having 150m to spend in that time. Under Houllier, people's opinion was his sixth year was a year to long, yet Benitez hasn't had enough time. So is the right time 5 years? After next season, if (more than likely) we haven't won the league, would Benitez of had enough time? Or are we still going to be seeing everyone praising him and living off the night in Istanbul?

[maguskwt]

We've spent nearly 150 million in the same time Chelsea have spent 300 million. In the same time Everton have spent 50 million or so, Villa around the same, City around 40 million. So spending practically 100 million more than those four, why are we still fighting with them? This is why money isn't an excuse for why we're so far behind.

money isn't an excuse if you're a mid-table team... money however plays a bigger part if you're a relegation team trying to stay in the PL regularly OR if you're trying to break into the top 3 and consistently challenge for the title or even win it... don't kid yourself

[god_bless_john_houlding]

We've spent nearly 150 million in the same time Chelsea have spent 300 million. In the same time Everton have spent 50 million or so, Villa around the same, City around 40 million. So spending practically 100 million more than those four, why are we still fighting with them? This is why money isn't an excuse for why we're so far behind.

money isn't an excuse if you're a mid-table team... money however plays a bigger part if you're a relegation team trying to stay in the PL regularly OR if you're trying to break into the top 3 and consistently challenge for the title or even win it... don't kid yourself

4th place isn't mid table. That's the position we're fighting for. Plus why doesn't money matter for mid table? How is it one rule for some but not for others?

Sunderland have spent a fair amount this season, 9 million alone on a keeper. Yet still find themselves fighting relegation. Newcastle who've outspent us year after year are only six points off the drop. So it isn't down to money is it?

[JohnBull]

Hows about getting Maureen in with Raffa and rotating the managers, see how he likes it!

[account deleted by request]

I think when it comes to evaluating the success or failure of a manager, you have to take money into account, but only one of many defining points.

1/ position and strength of the team when they took over compared to present position and strength

2/ time in the job

3/ transfers

4/ money spent

5/ cups won

Probably many more as well. Most if not all can be put simply as progress. If the club is not making progress over a period of time (how long?) questions need to be asked. The question of time is probably the hardest to answer, is 3 years to long or 6 years to short?

Take Souness for example :-

1/ Took over a club that was just finishing 2nd with a strong team (aging)

2/ Just over 3 year was probably too long!

3/ Disasterous transfer dealings - sold top quality players and brought in a lot of poor quality ones. (Rob Jones being the obvious exception)

4/ Spent a lot of money

5/ One FA CUP

Progress under Souness nil on the field but he did modernise some of the off field ideas and also introduced some talented youngsters to the first team.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Alright Saint, based on that's let take Benitez who is our current manager.

1/ Took over a team in fourth, we're still fourth.

2/ Best part of four years, for some it's to long, for some it's not long enough.

3/ A lot of bad buys, but his good signings have been huge success.

4/ Spent huge amounts, 150 million+.

5/ FA Cup and European Cup.

Overall I think Benitez TOOK us forward, in the first two years. I think now he's taking us backwards. I am starting to lean towards one more year because I think if he can get a settled 11 we'd do a lot better in the league. But since we know that's not happening then I think at the end of this year he has to go. If he came out and admitted that he was going to drop rotation, I'd be right behind giving him another year. But until the day he leaves he has my support.

[account deleted by request]

Alright Saint, based on that's let take Benitez who is our current manager.

1/ Took over a team in fourth, we're still fourth.

2/ Best part of four years, for some it's to long, for some it's not long enough.

3/ A lot of bad buys, but his good signings have been huge success.

4/ Spent huge amounts, 150 million+.

5/ FA Cup and European Cup.

Overall I think Benitez TOOK us forward, in the first two years. I think now he's taking us backwards. I am starting to lean towards one more year because I think if he can get a settled 11 we'd do a lot better in the league. But since we know that's not happening then I think at the end of this year he has to go. If he came out and admitted that he was going to drop rotation, I'd be right behind giving him another year. But until the day he leaves he has my support.

I am still not sure if this is a step back to take us two steps forward or if he has taken us as far as he can (in the league).

If we continue to progress in the CL, I don't see how we could in all honesty not give him another year. Cheering a manager in a CL FINAL closely followed by the sack would surely be unthinkable?

For me we are still paying for his mistakes in the transfer market in the summer of 2006. Every other window he seems to me to have done a good job.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Alright Saint, based on that's let take Benitez who is our current manager.

1/ Took over a team in fourth, we're still fourth.

2/ Best part of four years, for some it's to long, for some it's not long enough.

3/ A lot of bad buys, but his good signings have been huge success.

4/ Spent huge amounts, 150 million+.

5/ FA Cup and European Cup.

Overall I think Benitez TOOK us forward, in the first two years. I think now he's taking us backwards. I am starting to lean towards one more year because I think if he can get a settled 11 we'd do a lot better in the league. But since we know that's not happening then I think at the end of this year he has to go. If he came out and admitted that he was going to drop rotation, I'd be right behind giving him another year. But until the day he leaves he has my support.

I am still not sure if this is a step back to take us two steps forward or if he has taken us as far as he can (in the league).

If we continue to progress in the CL, I don't see how we could in all honesty not give him another year. Cheering a manager in a CL FINAL closely followed by the sack would surely be unthinkable?

For me we are still paying for his mistakes in the transfer market in the summer of 2006. Every other window he seems to me to have done a good job.

I think WHEN we the European Cup this season, it'll be unfair to sack Benitez. But it's still the league EVERY Liverpool fan wants more than anything. We can't keep letting the European Cup make up for the league's failure. If we do then Benitez could win the European Cup for the next five seasons in a row, but still get nowhere near the league. Would that be good enough to go another five years without a league title?

[account deleted by request]

Alright Saint, based on that's let take Benitez who is our current manager.

1/ Took over a team in fourth, we're still fourth.

2/ Best part of four years, for some it's to long, for some it's not long enough.

3/ A lot of bad buys, but his good signings have been huge success.

4/ Spent huge amounts, 150 million+.

5/ FA Cup and European Cup.

Overall I think Benitez TOOK us forward, in the first two years. I think now he's taking us backwards. I am starting to lean towards one more year because I think if he can get a settled 11 we'd do a lot better in the league. But since we know that's not happening then I think at the end of this year he has to go. If he came out and admitted that he was going to drop rotation, I'd be right behind giving him another year. But until the day he leaves he has my support.

I am still not sure if this is a step back to take us two steps forward or if he has taken us as far as he can (in the league).

If we continue to progress in the CL, I don't see how we could in all honesty not give him another year. Cheering a manager in a CL FINAL closely followed by the sack would surely be unthinkable?

For me we are still paying for his mistakes in the transfer market in the summer of 2006. Every other window he seems to me to have done a good job.

I think WHEN we the European Cup this season, it'll be unfair to sack Benitez. But it's still the league EVERY Liverpool fan wants more than anything. We can't keep letting the European Cup make up for the league's failure. If we do then Benitez could win the European Cup for the next five seasons in a row, but still get nowhere near the league. Would that be good enough to go another five years without a league title?

While acknowledging the League is the "holy grail", I think if he could win the CL every year, it should be enough to keep his job (imo) I don't think we are as yet so successful or arrogant as to dismiss the CL as JUST ANOTHER CUP ? 

We all want league success but at the end of the day the CL isn't a bad booby prize. I personally would take the league over the CL (as would most ?) if given the choice.

[big al]

many people using this forum (like me) often speak from are emotional brain.  We don't stop and look objectively at Liverpool FC.  Instead we get caught up in the media hype that surrounds a new player such as Torres or Babel.  The media and the football pundits told you that Liverpool had a chance to win the premier league and like me you believed them we all believed them, but the fact is that it takes time to bake a cake.  Many people forget that Chelsea's success was not instant it took years for them to build and build and attract the top players, they had to break the mould and get in a few big players.  Mourinho was an instant success yes but Raneiri had made his job easy. He was he who bought Cech, Lampard, Cole, and made Terry captain.  The foundation for Chelsea's success was not simply a matter of Money.  bring this back to LFC, the foundation has been laid Rafa has just started to build and he is having to learn as he goes.  The rotation system has let us down but even more than that has been the players failure to grind out results.  Look at the season overall and you'll see that too many times have players failed to get stuck in and if necessary make the match a battle.  We have played either excellent football which has given very little in return or we gotten ahead in games only to stop fighting for the points.  Winning the premiership is not easy sometimes its about getting stuck in and winning games that are abysmal to watch.  On Saturday Middlesbrough nearly came back and they would had not Maschereno not got stuck in.  the last tens minutes and one flying tackle was enough to say come and get it.  When Mascherano give away a free kick he eyeballed the ref, right in his face, letting him know and everyone else that if middlesbrough want to win then they better roll the sleeves up and be prepared to be kicked.  Stevie G came over sid a few words and left.  Had that been Roy Keanne the ref would have had to issue a yellow card to get him to move.  The fans would have been lifted the tempreture would have risen.  In the end it did'nt matter but its a good example of the lack of a winning mentality.  Winners will do everything they have to, to win.  So whilst we need a few more players we also need a winner on the pitch.  Rafa is never going to be a manager who lifts the fans and the players so he better find a player who can, because Stevie G is not that player.[U]

[maguskwt]

many people using this forum (like me) often speak from are emotional brain.  We don't stop and look objectively at Liverpool FC.  Instead we get caught up in the media hype that surrounds a new player such as Torres or Babel.  The media and the football pundits told you that Liverpool had a chance to win the premier league and like me you believed them we all believed them, but the fact is that it takes time to bake a cake.  Many people forget that Chelsea's success was not instant it took years for them to build and build and attract the top players, they had to break the mould and get in a few big players.  Mourinho was an instant success yes but Raneiri had made his job easy. He was he who bought Cech, Lampard, Cole, and made Terry captain.  The foundation for Chelsea's success was not simply a matter of Money.  bring this back to LFC, the foundation has been laid Rafa has just started to build and he is having to learn as he goes.  The rotation system has let us down but even more than that has been the players failure to grind out results.  Look at the season overall and you'll see that too many times have players failed to get stuck in and if necessary make the match a battle.  We have played either excellent football which has given very little in return or we gotten ahead in games only to stop fighting for the points.  Winning the premiership is not easy sometimes its about getting stuck in and winning games that are abysmal to watch.  On Saturday Middlesbrough nearly came back and they would had not Maschereno not got stuck in.  the last tens minutes and one flying tackle was enough to say come and get it.  When Mascherano give away a free kick he eyeballed the ref, right in his face, letting him know and everyone else that if middlesbrough want to win then they better roll the sleeves up and be prepared to be kicked.  Stevie G came over sid a few words and left.  Had that been Roy Keanne the ref would have had to issue a yellow card to get him to move.  The fans would have been lifted the tempreture would have risen.  In the end it did'nt matter but its a good example of the lack of a winning mentality.  Winners will do everything they have to, to win.  So whilst we need a few more players we also need a winner on the pitch.  Rafa is never going to be a manager who lifts the fans and the players so he better find a player who can, because Stevie G is not that player.[U]

big al... sometimes i can't make sense of what you say ... but this one is a very very good post... I agree with most of it especially how the players need to pull their own weight once on the pitch... only one point... chelsea did buy the league title albeit with a very shrewd manager... money gets the neccessary players you want to make your system work... money makes the world go round...

[maguskwt]

We've spent nearly 150 million in the same time Chelsea have spent 300 million. In the same time Everton have spent 50 million or so, Villa around the same, City around 40 million. So spending practically 100 million more than those four, why are we still fighting with them? This is why money isn't an excuse for why we're so far behind.

money isn't an excuse if you're a mid-table team... money however plays a bigger part if you're a relegation team trying to stay in the PL regularly OR if you're trying to break into the top 3 and consistently challenge for the title or even win it... don't kid yourself

4th place isn't mid table. That's the position we're fighting for. Plus why doesn't money matter for mid table? How is it one rule for some but not for others?

Sunderland have spent a fair amount this season, 9 million alone on a keeper. Yet still find themselves fighting relegation. Newcastle who've outspent us year after year are only six points off the drop. So it isn't down to money is it?

fair enough... money might not prevent a team from going down... but money becomes a big factor breaking into the current top 3... because the gulf between the top 3 and the rest is wider than the gulf between all the other clubs sadly including us... money makes everything easier... money makes the world go round...

[god_bless_john_houlding]

We've spent nearly 150 million in the same time Chelsea have spent 300 million. In the same time Everton have spent 50 million or so, Villa around the same, City around 40 million. So spending practically 100 million more than those four, why are we still fighting with them? This is why money isn't an excuse for why we're so far behind.

money isn't an excuse if you're a mid-table team... money however plays a bigger part if you're a relegation team trying to stay in the PL regularly OR if you're trying to break into the top 3 and consistently challenge for the title or even win it... don't kid yourself

4th place isn't mid table. That's the position we're fighting for. Plus why doesn't money matter for mid table? How is it one rule for some but not for others?

Sunderland have spent a fair amount this season, 9 million alone on a keeper. Yet still find themselves fighting relegation. Newcastle who've outspent us year after year are only six points off the drop. So it isn't down to money is it?

fair enough... money might not prevent a team from going down... but money becomes a big factor breaking into the current top 3... because the gulf between the top 3 and the rest is wider than the gulf between all the other clubs sadly including us... money makes everything easier... money makes the world go round...

Money bought Deigo Forlan and Jaun Sebastian Veron for United, for huge amounts. Money doens't make it easier. Money makes it more difficult because expectations are that much higher because you've got the millions, it's made easier that you can buy pretty much who you want, but with that money success is demanded. That's why Newcastle sack their manager every other week. Because they're given plenty of bread to spend and come home potless.

Mourinho was sacked because he couldn't deliver the European Cup despite having more money than the bank of england.

That's why it's such a disappointment to me, because we've had a lot of money, a lot more than the teams we are fighting for fourth with. So we should be up there challenging. With 150 million Benitez should of been able to sign a world class left back and left winger. The money we've spent and the players we have are good enough to challenge.

[LFC2007]

Money doens't make it easier.

Is this sarcasm too?

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Money doens't make it easier.

Is this sarcasm too?

No mate it's a quote.