Liverpool FC Forum

[Sabre]

I think the motivational angle has taken on a new importance today in the wake of Kuyt's comments in the press that he was happy to settle for 1-0 until Stevie G said to keep going for 2-0.
If Kuyt has this kind of mentality then how many of the other squad members (other then Gerrard and probably Carra) are like this?
Does this possibly explain why so many of our games this season have ended in draws were we've taken the lead and then been pegged back?

If such a mentality was in a league game, I'd agree it's worrying.

But a 1-0 is gold and so much better than a 2-1 when it comes to this competition. Making a goal away in San Siro would be lethal now, because crisis or not, it's very difficult to make more than three goals to Liverpool and a 3-1 would be for us.

So even after watching the 2-0 I don't think Kuyt's idea was bad.

Note that I'm not talking about putting all the men in our box, but simply not risking possession and keep the ball as much as we can, searching a goal yes, but minimising the risks of a counter.

[Kharhaz]

Last night Hamann was saying that he thought the reason we do so much better in Europe than domestically is the style of play of European football, with the emphasis on good passing rather than the hardwork and commitment of the Prem.

I had put it down to a lack of motivation myself. Foreign players who could rise to the occasion when it was a big European night failing to respond when we play "lesser matches" in the Prem or domestic cups.

The thing that makes me think I am probably on the right lines is that when we play our rivals in the "big cup games" we seem to play well and win, when we play them in the league we seem to struggle and even when on occasion we are the better team somehow manage to lose. Luck or a missing ingredient (motivation) to give that little bit extra that is the difference between success and failure.

I don't want to get into the whole Rafa's man management argument, I was just wondering is it style or motivation or perhaps a combination of many things that sees us struggle against lesser lights but crush the best Europe has to offer?

Id say they both compliment each other. If the players are motivated then the style of play naturally comes into its own and the team look good and vice versa. The big games in the premiership liverpool generally look good in these games but just dont have the knack of scoring that goal that decides it. How many times have we played chelsea and man utd, dominated the game yet just cannot find that killer touch?

All in all id say motivation. Everyone can build themselves for the big games, even supporters but find it more difficult against lesser teams.

[taff]

I dont think its motivation as when the league started the players and Rafa were well up for it.  I think that the pressure of the league gets to them.  Any dropped points and its crisis. Rotation was the problem then he's lost the dressing room etc.

It reminds me of Man Utd before they finally won the league in 93 after collapsing against Leeds.

Compared to other teams

Man Utd a swagger of experience
Arsenal, the same thing albeit with newer players now but ones who have been around for a few years
Chelsea that impulse of spending gave them a swagger.

SG who is Mr Liverpool and an incredible influence has not won the league and this could be having an effect, maybe we do need an old head who the players look up to.

Compare this to the CL where we have a rep, people fear us more than teams who are better than us in our own league, we have that swagger about us.  What can the chelsea players tell SG, Carra etc about the CL.

I would be happy for a strong finish now and the 4th spot obviously, I am also happy with the likes of Mascherano who looks like he wants to run the show as much as SG does.

How is Gary Macs fitness

[account deleted by request]

I think the motivational angle has taken on a new importance today in the wake of Kuyt's comments in the press that he was happy to settle for 1-0 until Stevie G said to keep going for 2-0.
If Kuyt has this kind of mentality then how many of the other squad members (other then Gerrard and probably Carra) are like this?
Does this possibly explain why so many of our games this season have ended in draws were we've taken the lead and then been pegged back?

On a side note I am surprised at the idiocy of this comment. Kuyt has had a tough time of late with poor form and the fans (me included) voicing our belief that he isn't good enough. He scores a couple of goals and starts to improve his standing amongst the supporters and then he shows himself up like this! 

Even worse mate, Kuyt was settling for 0-0

Dirk Kuyt reveals how Steven Gerrard speech turned draw into win
Feb 20 2008

DIRK KUYT today revealed how an inspired piece of captaincy from fellow goalscorer Steven Gerrard helped Liverpool record a magnificent victory over Inter Milan at Anfield.

The Dutch striker notched his second goal in two games and Gerrard completed the scoring in a 2-0 win which makes Liverpool hot favourites to go through to the last eight of the Champions League.

But Kuyt admitted there was a stage in the game when he feared Liverpool’s dominance would not be rewarded and they might have had to settle for a goalless draw – only for skipper Gerrard to urge his team to keep pushing forward and go in search of goals.

He said: “Italian teams are very good in defence and Inter did really well, even with ten men.

“But we remained patient and worked really hard together and in the end we scored two goals, so we are really happy with that.

“It was funny because just before I scored I said to Steven that maybe we ought to keep the ball and keep the clean sheet.

“But he said to me we needed to have another go and he was right because the goal came and 2-0 is a great result.”

Having failed to score in 13 consecutive fixtures prior to last Saturday’s match against Barnsley, Kuyt has now scored twice in his last two games and he is delighted to be back among the goals.

But despite his personal delight, he was more impressed with the team performance which saw Liverpool record their 100th win in European competition on home turf.

He said: “It was a great moment because everyone knows how important it is to score a goal so I was really happy with that.

“I had a really difficult period but I just want to put that behind me now.

“I’m happy to score but the most important thing was that we won against Inter in the first match – but we still have a match to go so we have to keep focused.

“It was a good result but we have another game to come in Milan and we know that will be a tough night as well.

“But we have to be really happy with two goals and a clean sheet.

“All the players worked really hard as a team and we had confidence in ourselves because we know we have a lot of quality in the team and I think we showed that.

“I think everyone knows how good Liverpool can be but we have not shown that over the last couple of months but I think we showed it last night.

“We played a good game but now we want to play many more good games in the Champions League and in the Premier League.

“We have the quality and we have to show it on the pitch.”

I can't say I agree with Sabre, playing against 10 men you have to go for the jugular.

[big al]

Theres another thread on here about who should replace Stevie G as captain.  I think this thread is at the very heart of Liverpools difficulties.  Captaincy.   We don't have one, we havent had one for years, infact for 19 years to be precise.  don't get me worng stevie G inspires and leads by example but a captain is much much more than that.  I always look for him when there a scuffle, is he in like flynn as they say and the truth is he's not.  Gerrard is a smart guy maybe too smart to be a captain.  The 2nd best captain in English football was Roy Keane. He pulled his team through games when you thought it was over.  Liverpool havent played badly this season if you reflect over the season so far.  i can recall a multitude of games were they outplayed and outclassed teams who they should have beat by a cart load, including Man U, Chelsea(twice) Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Barnsley infact the painful truth is that the only game we looked under pressure was Arsenal.  yes there were other games were we played slow lethargic football but by and large the problem has been not being able to bury teams when we had the chance.  Thats what Man U do, Chelsea as well, thats what we were famous for all those years ago.  I believe that we have lacked true leadership on the pitch. A motivator A player who drags players over the line, A player who can get involved emotionally and yet put it out of his mind in an instant.  Carrasgher last night had a few words with Viera, who misinterpreted Carraghers comment rather when Viera got all stroppy jamie ran after him to explain, Keane would have lamped him the next time he got the ball.  That's the difference, we have and have'nt had a ruthless cynical on the pitch who puts the fear of god into his team mates who can win a match in the tunnel before a ball is kick and who the referee is intimadated by.  We need a Captain, gerrard is a world class player but its not in his nature to be a complete ruthless, egotistical, psyhco nutter who as steve McMann said would kick his granny to win a game, as the best captains

[Effes]

Theres another thread on here about who should replace Stevie G as captain.  I think this thread is at the very heart of Liverpools difficulties.  Captaincy.   We don't have one, we havent had one for years, infact for 19 years to be precise.  don't get me worng stevie G inspires and leads by example but a captain is much much more than that.  I always look for him when there a scuffle, is he in like flynn as they say and the truth is he's not.  Gerrard is a smart guy maybe too smart to be a captain.  The 2nd best captain in English football was Roy Keane. He pulled his team through games when you thought it was over.  Liverpool havent played badly this season if you reflect over the season so far.  i can recall a multitude of games were they outplayed and outclassed teams who they should have beat by a cart load, including Man U, Chelsea(twice) Wigan, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Barnsley infact the painful truth is that the only game we looked under pressure was Arsenal.  yes there were other games were we played slow lethargic football but by and large the problem has been not being able to bury teams when we had the chance.  Thats what Man U do, Chelsea as well, thats what we were famous for all those years ago.  I believe that we have lacked true leadership on the pitch. A motivator A player who drags players over the line, A player who can get involved emotionally and yet put it out of his mind in an instant.  Carrasgher last night had a few words with Viera, who misinterpreted Carraghers comment rather when Viera got all stroppy jamie ran after him to explain, Keane would have lamped him the next time he got the ball.  That's the difference, we have and have'nt had a ruthless cynical on the pitch who puts the fear of god into his team mates who can win a match in the tunnel before a ball is kick and who the referee is intimadated by.  We need a Captain, gerrard is a world class player but its not in his nature to be a complete ruthless, egotistical, psyhco nutter who as steve McMann said would kick his granny to win a game, as the best captains

I voiced my concerns of SG as captain when Reina got sent off at Chelsea - there was a lot of jostling, with SG nowhere.

However, I feel it's a case of "the die has been cast" - and changing the captaincy would have a detrimental affect.

[Effes]

Re. motivation or style.

It's the motivation that's lacking.

Rafa excels at tactics, but falls short on motivation.

I believe in the league, you play your best team, dont over-do the tactics but you
need the final ingredient of motivation.
If you find yourself playing away to Boro, for example, on a cold February evening
then motivation is key to getting the best out the team.

[LFC2007]

If you find yourself playing away to Boro, for example, on a cold February evening
then motivation is key to getting the best out the team.

Are you saying Boro's a bit of a sh!thole 

[The_Rock]

I think the motivational angle has taken on a new importance today in the wake of Kuyt's comments in the press that he was happy to settle for 1-0 until Stevie G said to keep going for 2-0.
If Kuyt has this kind of mentality then how many of the other squad members (other then Gerrard and probably Carra) are like this?
Does this possibly explain why so many of our games this season have ended in draws were we've taken the lead and then been pegged back?

On a side note I am surprised at the idiocy of this comment. Kuyt has had a tough time of late with poor form and the fans (me included) voicing our belief that he isn't good enough. He scores a couple of goals and starts to improve his standing amongst the supporters and then he shows himself up like this! 

Yeah.........i was kinda shocked when i heard this. The fact is there are not many winners in our team...The kind who like to win every match. Rough and tough it out... When the other team are down...show no mercy on them....kinda of stuff.

Apart from Gerrard, Carra, Mascherano and Torres, think the others in this team are just happy to be in the position they are....

Not a good quality to have IMO....

[chrisrafman]

Stevie is more a captain for liverpool than anyone and nobody can argue that ever!!!! May i request someone start a thread for people to express their hate for MANURE? Please im dying to do that but cant start a thread yet. Im begging

[chrisrafman]

I think the motivational angle has taken on a new importance today in the wake of Kuyt's comments in the press that he was happy to settle for 1-0 until Stevie G said to keep going for 2-0.
If Kuyt has this kind of mentality then how many of the other squad members (other then Gerrard and probably Carra) are like this?
Does this possibly explain why so many of our games this season have ended in draws were we've taken the lead and then been pegged back?

On a side note I am surprised at the idiocy of this comment. Kuyt has had a tough time of late with poor form and the fans (me included) voicing our belief that he isn't good enough. He scores a couple of goals and starts to improve his standing amongst the supporters and then he shows himself up like this! 

Yeah.........i was kinda shocked when i heard this. The fact is there are not many winners in our team...The kind who like to win every match. Rough and tough it out... When the other team are down...show no mercy on them....kinda of stuff.

Apart from Gerrard, Carra, Mascherano and Torres, think the others in this team are just happy to be in the position they are....

Not a good quality to have IMO....

4 out of 11 ho want to win? we have problems there, especially  if any of them four are not starting

[ruskiy playmaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfClLdlC8bo

Why the hell can't our Liverpool do this, I mean Rafa was rotating at Valencia too.

[maguskwt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfClLdlC8bo

Why the hell can't our Liverpool do this, I mean Rafa was rotating at Valencia too.

simple... we don't have enough players like aimar...

[ruskiy playmaker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfClLdlC8bo

Why the hell can't our Liverpool do this, I mean Rafa was rotating at Valencia too.

simple... we don't have enough players like aimar...

Yeah but we've got Alonso, Babel, Lucas, Yossi and Torres.  We should be able to play better passing football.  I think that one of the main reasons why we play such conservative football is because Rafa is under huge pressure and he's choosing a safer route for now.  I remember him saying in the summer that he would improve the quality of football for this year and it seems like he did at the beginning but then we went back to our style from last year.

[stmichael]

If people think we play bad football, they should see what Chelsea serve up having spent the best part of £300m.