Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

Also Carra has nearly scored more goals for spurs against us than they have themselves .

Carra out
Lucas in

Not for me thanks - just highlights the point a player isnt a poor player just because he scores an own goal and he should be hung drawn or quartered because of it like some are using it to add fuel to the fire with regards lucas

[heimdall]

Lucas is average and for a Brazilian midfielder he shows almost zero flair. He is a competent player but I'm not seeing any progression in him, I don't see these nice 1-2's or little runs, he is just invisible even when I try to focus on him during a game.

In summary he is not good enough for a team with title aspirations and I doubt he ever will be. It's kind of the same with Kuyt, I love the guy to bits for his work rate and he is certainly more useful as RM but is he really good enough, again no in my opinion but he does offer more than Lucas ever will.

BTW Mascha is also at the moment so it's not all Lucas's fault but I have yet to be impressed with Lucas in the same way as I have been with almost all our other players.

[GYBS]

Just becuase he is brazilian doesnt mean he has to have flair - plenty of them havent in the past but have been good players . You need to watch the highlights again from yesterday - watch the great ball lucas played through for torres when torres touch took him a little wide and he went to chip the keeper - great threaded ball from lucas to set torres on his way but no doubt that would of been missed or ignored

[Sir Roger]

Also Carra has nearly scored more goals for spurs against us than they have themselves .

Carra out
Lucas in

Not for me thanks - just highlights the point a player isnt a poor player just because he scores an own goal and he should be hung drawn or quartered because of it like some are using it to add fuel to the fire with regards lucas

The own goal was just the cherry on the cake for the fact that he gave a needless free kick away i a dangerous position
I will say he was unlucky but he has no-one but himself to blame
Hopefully he will learn not to do similar things in the future

[GYBS]

And once again gerrard gave away a stupid penalty and carra has given away stupid free kicks as well - but they get highlighted with lucas to add to the dossier for people that dont like him .

[Sir Roger]

And once again gerrard gave away a stupid penalty and carra has given away stupid free kicks as well - but they get highlighted with lucas to add to the dossier for people that dont like him .

Ha ha

I think its interesting that you compare two of our best and most consistent players with someone who has much to prove

[Bammo]

I think his point is that because Lucas is unproven he's slated for his mistakes whereas other players get away (on here) with worse mistakes.

[bigmick]

Yes what is it with the Gerrard comparison Fecks sake he dug us out of the sh!te yet again on Saturday, and yet we want to compare Lucas to him. Give the Brazillian kid a break FFS, compare him to Masherano not Gerrard.

To be honest I'm done with the Lucas debate, because quite frankly anybody who can't see that he isn't currently capable of performing the role we are asking him to is clueless IMHO. It's not about "supporting the players", being a "real fan" or any of that nonsense, it's about having a clue what you are talking about. The only thing you could say about the situation which could be remotely positive is that there is always the chance he could improve, however slight. As it stands though, in my eyes if you are of the opinion that he has done a good job as our more forward central midfielder in the first four league games, then you don't know what you are looking at.

[Sir Roger]

I think his point is that because Lucas is unproven he's slated for his mistakes whereas other players get away (on here) with worse mistakes.

Then maybe he should learn from his mistakes, not repeat them and concentrate on proving himself

[GYBS]

Im sorry but were am i comparing anyone esp Gerrard ? im just highlighting the fact that other players make mistakes but yet are ripped to shreads because of them where as Lucas is and in the past Kuyt used to be .

[bigmick]

Im sorry but were am i comparing anyone esp Gerrard ? im just highlighting the fact that other players make mistakes but yet are ripped to shreads because of them where as Lucas is and in the past Kuyt used to be .

Well you are comparing the reaction to Lucas's mistakes to the reaction to Gerrards mistakes aren't you Surely you can see that as Gerrard generally digs us out of the sh!t most weeks people are a bit more prepared to forgive the odd faux pas

By contrast, when someone's sole contribution froma  creative sense is passing it five yards sideways and backwards, when he also fecks up the thing from a defensive sense people start to get a bit hot under the collar.

It's just plain silly to compare the "treatment" Lucas gets on forums to what Torres or Gerrard gets. You'll be commenting next that people didn't seem as gutted when the bloke who got shot up the erse left as they were when Alonso went to Madrid.

[GYBS]

Right so certain people are allowed to make mistakes where as certain people arent allowed to make any at all for fear of being labelled sh.ite or not good enough , where as i think they should all equally be critized for making a mistake - no matter who is the player.

Sole contribution ? you must of been someone else who missed that great 30 yard threaded ball from lucas to torres for his chance  (yes it was forwards as well )- now off course if it was gerrard who would of been lauded for it but there we go again - double standards towards treatment of our players .

[Bammo]

Previous form should be taken into account but it shouldn't mean mistakes are ignored.

If it were injury time in the derby, 1-1, and Gerrard picked the ball up, ran 50 yards back into our area and smashed it into the top corner, we wouldn't be saying "ah well, he's bailed us out in the past". Now that's a flippant example but Lucas doesn't intentionally up.

No one is saying Gerrard should be vilified but Lucas giving away a free kick results in over-the-top abuse whilst Gerrard conceding a pen is hardly mentioned.

How about we all see if Lucas can redeem himself this season rather than right him off? He's not even been our worst player so far this season.

[akumaface]

The CM position is crucial to our link up. Lucas just isn't capable of doing that. He can play RB, Left back etc and might surprise us with his play there but NOT CM. Most of you don't have anything concrete to say other than he will improve (what if he doesn;t and how many more games will you give him) and "what about the 30 yards pass that send Torres away..", one pass in a thousand means he is shlt 999/1000 passes. I think even you or I can send a pass like if given the chance. Where are his highlights? What is his attritbutes, name them please as I really want to know. I'm not blaming Lucas as much since it was Rafa who put him there but obviously we can do better just by switching Gerrard back there and put Lucas behind Torres or something. Lucas maybe trying hard but he just doesn't make the grade. Are you guys willing to jeopardize this season just to prove a point that Lucas is Shlt? I can't speak for yourself for me, I won't take that chance since he's been given enough game to prove he is not a CM.

[Sir Roger]

Right so certain people are allowed to make mistakes where as certain people arent allowed to make any at all for fear of being labelled sh.ite or not good enough , where as i think they should all equally be critized for making a mistake - no matter who is the player.

Sole contribution ? you must of been someone else who missed that great 30 yard threaded ball from lucas to torres for his chance  (yes it was forwards as well )- now off course if it was gerrard who would of been lauded for it but there we go again - double standards towards treatment of our players .

Of course we forgive certain people for their mistakes and  kick off on others for theirs. Thats the way it is and the way it should be. All players are not the same and shouldnt be treated as such. Better players are allowed to make more mistakes than lesser players because generally the better player will not repeat the mistake and change his game to eradicate it. It is up to the likes of Lucas to raise his game to the level of the best players. Not for them to look at parity with him.
It would be foolish in the extreme to slaughter Gerrard for giving a penalty away or Carra for scoring an own goal because they do not do it often. And what they do otherwise more than makes up for the occasional fukc up. That is not to say they are above criticism. It is all a matter of proportion and merit