Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

it was funny at first when mick posted it a couple of times but now someone cant resist posted it on every thread possible and your spot on its getting very boring now

[heimdall]

Was just thinking about the Doss... For me he offers more going forward than Insua at the moment.. Personally i would pick him ahead of Insua, get him in the shop window and offload in January. If he plays well great, if he does only as good as Insua what have we lost?

How long is Fabio out?

    remember that a defender also needs to defend, it's kind of important, the clue is in the name.   

[heimdall]

Am I missing something by this 'fecking Parry ' business?

Is it supposed to be funny?  Or a dig at someone?  Or one of those 'in-jokes' that isn't really a joke but people think it's hilarious?  It's getting a bit old whatever it is.

Yes you are most definitely missing something, a sense of humour. Just kidding, it's a dig at all those people who blame Parry for absolutely everything but Rafa for nothing and I for one find it absolutely fecking hilarious. 

[GYBS]

the main fault with it you will have to show us these posts where parry is blamed for everything and rafa not blamed for anything ? Im guessing you will be away for a bit while you search around and while you do stop with the fecking parry posts because it has got annoying boring pathetic and no longer funny and unoriginal .

[Bad Bob]

Just back to Warnock v. Dossena for a second, there's a few points to consider IMO:

1) Warnock was our 3rd choice LB by some distance back then...he'd look decent on occasion but was prone to diving in way to much defensively (gave away a lot of frees) and offered minimal support going forward;  Riise and Aurelio were ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so

2) IIRC, he wanted the move because he didn't like being third choice (Soccernet's player bio seems to back this up)

3) He's improved at Blackburn no question but he's still prone to rash challenges and he's still a limited player going forward

Which brings me to Doss.  Now, there are some on here that are of the opinion that a fullback should be mostly about defending but I think that an attacking fullback is a vital weapon in the arsenal of most top teams in world football today.  The Mancs have Evra and the twin 'wunderkinds', Chelsea have Cole and Bosingwa and now the Russian lad as well, Arsenal have Clichy and Sagna, Madrid has Ramos, Barca has Alves, Inter has Maicon etc. etc. etc.  Given this, it seems pretty obvious to me that Rafa bought Dossena to take over from a gone-stale Risse and a sicknote Aurelio and do that job down the left.  He paid significantly to do so in the process because proper attacking fullbacks aren't a dime a dozen.  But, it hasn't really worked out so far has it?  Dossena seems off the pace and not particularly well-suited to the English game and therefore must be categorized as a bad buy.  But, I suspect he'd still offer much more going forward than Warnock would and that's what he was bought for.  So, it seems we're comparing--if not apples to oranges here--than baking apples vs. pick and eat apples.

Which, in a roundabout way, brings us to Johnson.  Rafa has been criticized by some for paying way over the odds for the lad.  Couldn't he have saved a good ten million pounds and bought someone cheaper, we've heard?  To which I say, sure he could have, at the risk of bringing in Dossena Mark II.  Now, I'm not saying Rafa should be let off the hook for buying poorly in the Italian and that there are no attacking fullbacks out there of comparable price (or cheaper) who could have come in and done a better job.  What I am saying is that Rafa has the right idea about looking for attacking fullbacks, that they often cost more money than some people think worth paying for 'just a fullback' and that, for all of his improvement, Stephen Warnock is not in that category and probably shouldn't simply be bunged into the discussion of Dossena merits in the way he has been.  To do so not only ignores all the circumstances that led to his sale at the time but also ignores the fact that he doesn't quite fulfill the attacking role demanded of our fullbacks these days.

[devaney]

At a time when many are questioning Alonso's worth to the team I find myself thinking "Well, just how special is Lucas ? "

This is not meant as having a dig at Lucas but let's face it for a Brazilian midfielder the fella has yet to produce a flash of magic you would normally expect from a player with his pedigree and heritage and despite Alonso's below par season I fail to see why some think it wouldn't be a major loss if Alonso should go and so little is said about Lucas' less than newsworthy performances given that after Gerrard and Mascherano the third place midfield spot falls to either Alonso or Lucas.

Lucas is neat , he's tidy , erm ....... I'm hard pressed to say anything else apart from he's also very lightweight , gets brushed off the ball and decked by any opposing player that puts in a serious challenge and the majority of his own tackles seem to result in a free kick for the opposition. Offers little in terms of goal threat or creativity.


As far as I'm concerned Lucas' performances for us have so far been distinctly average, don't see that the lad has any real future with us, apart from being a handy fill in when Mascher is unavailable, or am I missing something ?

Just noticed the date at the beginning of this thread!

We can now add own goals to Lucas's list of emerging skills.
The bit I find most interesting is the way Alonso's performance during the 2007/2008 is referred to and I certainly wouldn't argue with it. Just what could Rafa have got out of Alonso prior to 2008/2009 with the right coaching and encouragement? Instead Rafa lost him for a good price after his stand out season. He failed to get Barry as well who seems to be doing very well with City and there was further evidence of his talent on display last night!

[devaney]

Just back to Warnock v. Dossena for a second, there's a few points to consider IMO:

1) Warnock was our 3rd choice LB by some distance back then...he'd look decent on occasion but was prone to diving in way to much defensively (gave away a lot of frees) and offered minimal support going forward;  Riise and Aurelio were ahead of him in the pecking order and rightly so

2) IIRC, he wanted the move because he didn't like being third choice (Soccernet's player bio seems to back this up)

3) He's improved at Blackburn no question but he's still prone to rash challenges and he's still a limited player going forward

Which brings me to Doss.  Now, there are some on here that are of the opinion that a fullback should be mostly about defending but I think that an attacking fullback is a vital weapon in the arsenal of most top teams in world football today.  The Mancs have Evra and the twin 'wunderkinds', Chelsea have Cole and Bosingwa and now the Russian lad as well, Arsenal have Clichy and Sagna, Madrid has Ramos, Barca has Alves, Inter has Maicon etc. etc. etc.  Given this, it seems pretty obvious to me that Rafa bought Dossena to take over from a gone-stale Risse and a sicknote Aurelio and do that job down the left.  He paid significantly to do so in the process because proper attacking fullbacks aren't a dime a dozen.  But, it hasn't really worked out so far has it?  Dossena seems off the pace and not particularly well-suited to the English game and therefore must be categorized as a bad buy.  But, I suspect he'd still offer much more going forward than Warnock would and that's what he was bought for.  So, it seems we're comparing--if not apples to oranges here--than baking apples vs. pick and eat apples.

Which, in a roundabout way, brings us to Johnson.  Rafa has been criticized by some for paying way over the odds for the lad.  Couldn't he have saved a good ten million pounds and bought someone cheaper, we've heard?  To which I say, sure he could have, at the risk of bringing in Dossena Mark II.  Now, I'm not saying Rafa should be let off the hook for buying poorly in the Italian and that there are no attacking fullbacks out there of comparable price (or cheaper) who could have come in and done a better job.  What I am saying is that Rafa has the right idea about looking for attacking fullbacks, that they often cost more money than some people think worth paying for 'just a fullback' and that, for all of his improvement, Stephen Warnock is not in that category and probably shouldn't simply be bunged into the discussion of Dossena merits in the way he has been.  To do so not only ignores all the circumstances that led to his sale at the time but also ignores the fact that he doesn't quite fulfill the attacking role demanded of our fullbacks these days.

Johnson looks as if he would be more comfortable as a forward than some of the rubbish we have bought in recent years. Thought Johnson was a bit disappointing against but there again the entire team was poor.

[GYBS]

At a time when many are questioning Alonso's worth to the team I find myself thinking "Well, just how special is Lucas ? "

This is not meant as having a dig at Lucas but let's face it for a Brazilian midfielder the fella has yet to produce a flash of magic you would normally expect from a player with his pedigree and heritage and despite Alonso's below par season I fail to see why some think it wouldn't be a major loss if Alonso should go and so little is said about Lucas' less than newsworthy performances given that after Gerrard and Mascherano the third place midfield spot falls to either Alonso or Lucas.

Lucas is neat , he's tidy , erm ....... I'm hard pressed to say anything else apart from he's also very lightweight , gets brushed off the ball and decked by any opposing player that puts in a serious challenge and the majority of his own tackles seem to result in a free kick for the opposition. Offers little in terms of goal threat or creativity.


As far as I'm concerned Lucas' performances for us have so far been distinctly average, don't see that the lad has any real future with us, apart from being a handy fill in when Mascher is unavailable, or am I missing something ?

Just noticed the date at the beginning of this thread!

We can now add own goals to Lucas's list of emerging skills.
The bit I find most interesting is the way Alonso's performance during the 2007/2008 is referred to and I certainly wouldn't argue with it. Just what could Rafa have got out of Alonso prior to 2008/2009 with the right coaching and encouragement? Instead Rafa lost him for a good price after his stand out season. He failed to get Barry as well who seems to be doing very well with City and there was further evidence of his talent on display last night!

and it continues here as well -

I would have to ask Mr Alonso why he played below par during those two seasons ? was it becuase he was injured a number of times or poor coaching ? Also why do players need to be encouraged to play well ? surely shouldnt they be putting their heart and soul into every match ? if not then get out of the club .

But no doubt its all Rafas fault

[Sir Roger]

I actually think Lucas didnt play too bad yesterday. A bit more intelligent. Nothing to write home about but nowhere near as bad as he has been

[GYBS]

I actually think Lucas didnt play too bad yesterday. A bit more intelligent. Nothing to write home about but nowhere near as bad as he has been

played some great little one twos and played a few very good balls to release torres - most of the second half he was more advanced than gerrard and looked comfy there . had a decent game .

[Sir Roger]

I actually think Lucas didnt play too bad yesterday. A bit more intelligent. Nothing to write home about but nowhere near as bad as he has been

played some great little one twos and played a few very good balls to release torres - most of the second half he was more advanced than gerrard and looked comfy there . had a decent game .

Lets see if he can make the step from decent to good...?

[kazza]

We can now add own goals to Lucas's list of emerging skills.

I remember when JC scored two own goals against the Mancs in the same game.

[Sir Roger]

We can now add own goals to Lucas's list of emerging skills.

I remember when JC scored two own goals against the Mancs in the same game.

Two crackers if I remember rightly
He was poor in the early days was Carra
Turned it round though..

[GYBS]

Also Carra has nearly scored more goals for spurs against us than they have themselves .

[Sir Roger]

Also Carra has nearly scored more goals for spurs against us than they have themselves .

Carra out
Lucas in