Liverpool FC Forum

[Kopite-Jud]

Our record this season with or without Lucas in the side:

With Lucas: P 10 W 7 D1 L2

Without Lucas: P 11 W2 D2 L7

You do the maths.

Glad someone appritiates Lucas.  It does my t!ts in when people say he's sh!t. 

Just because he doesn't spray 40 yard passes and rakes in goals / assists he's "poor".

What he does do goes largely un-noticed by 80% of people. He tackles, he recycles the ball and his positioning is class. He makes alot of tackles and wins a  very high percentage of them. 

If this means nothing to some of you lot (lets not forget Gerrard made 0% tackles against Palace) then your football knowledge is bleak.

there are many fans that appreciate the importance of Lucas, unfortunately there are some that never actually see the little things that are vital in a game... and there are others like the "only me" character who are just total toss pots

Putting a foot in / breaking up play / getting a tactical foul isn't a bad thing you know? He rarely gets booked for it ( which is a skill in itself) The likes of Busquets, Van Bommel and Makelele are greatly under appritiated for it.  They are often labelled as "anyone can do that job" men. You tend to suffer when they're not there.

[only me]

Our record this season with or without Lucas in the side:

With Lucas: P 10 W 7 D1 L2

Without Lucas: P 11 W2 D2 L7

You do the maths.

Glad someone appritiates Lucas.  It does my t!ts in when people say he's sh!t. 

Just because he doesn't spray 40 yard passes and rakes in goals / assists he's "poor".

What he does do goes largely un-noticed by 80% of people. He tackles, he recycles the ball and his positioning is class. He makes alot of tackles and wins a  very high percentage of them. 

If this means nothing to some of you lot (lets not forget Gerrard made 0% tackles against Palace) then your football knowledge is bleak.

there are many fans that appreciate the importance of Lucas, unfortunately there are some that never actually see the little things that are vital in a game... and there are others like the "only me" character who are just total toss pots

Sure thing supersubway sandwich you keep looking for the invisible stuff he does the little vital myth you lads keep admiring I'll look for our next Alonso or Mash...Lucas the master of fouls near the box wonder we managed our best season last year with him out of the pic....you lads said the same thing over Glan when I was tearing him apart for years now...You will catch up I promise you.

[Kopite-Jud]

Yeah, we had a good season last year, but we still conceded 50 goals (the same amount as west ham) with the goals drying up, you have to stop the opposition scoring.  I'm not saying Lucas stops 100% of the goals but he is brilliant at ball retention.

can't you appreciate the importance of ball retention? I'm not saying he's the best in the world at it, but he is the best we have at it.

Watch him closely, he is always in the right place and he makes important tackles.

[only me]

Yeah, we had a good season last year, but we still conceded 50 goals (the same amount as west ham) with the goals drying up, you have to stop the opposition scoring.  I'm not saying Lucas stops 100% of the goals but he is brilliant at ball retention.

can't you appreciate the importance of ball retention? I'm not saying he's the best in the world at it, but he is the best we have at it.

Watch him closely, he is always in the right place and he makes important tackles.

KJ i fully appreciate and understand the necessity of a player which would do the "dirty" job of tackling/stopping plays ,i feel it's almost the most important part in a team however.....
Lucas does a very average job at it ,he mistimes tackles ,makes silly fouls and frankly a part from a short period prior to his injury ,in which he played good ,he was always a hit and a miss.
He Symbolized the mediocrity which we sunk to this past decade and i don't want to see this kind of players in an LFC shirt.

If he is the best we have then for fck sake go and get another one.

[supersub]

Yeah, we had a good season last year, but we still conceded 50 goals (the same amount as west ham) with the goals drying up, you have to stop the opposition scoring.  I'm not saying Lucas stops 100% of the goals but he is brilliant at ball retention.

can't you appreciate the importance of ball retention? I'm not saying he's the best in the world at it, but he is the best we have at it.

Watch him closely, he is always in the right place and he makes important tackles.

[RedAnt]

There's essentially only two types of DM and all others are slight variants of those two blueprints. There's the ball winning tough guy such as Mascha and there's the cultured smart guy who reads the game well such as Alonso. We have neither. Lucas is neither. He may be the best/most obvious we have, but he's still a clumsy foul waiting to happen. He may afford more protection to the back four than Gerrard (who isn't a DM) but that doesn't say much. We should have improved this position long ago, when Xabi and Mascha left. It bewilders me that we're still talking about Lucas. His presence on the pitch feels like a ghost and symbolises the poor structure of the squad.

[only me]

There's essentially only two types of DM and all others are slight variants of those two blueprints. There's the ball winning tough guy such as Mascha and there's the cultured smart guy who reads the game well such as Alonso. We have neither. Lucas is neither. He may be the best/most obvious we have, but he's still a clumsy foul waiting to happen. He may afford more protection to the back four than Gerrard (who isn't a DM) but that doesn't say much. We should have improved this position long ago, when Xabi and Mascha left. It bewilders me that we're still talking about Lucas. His presence on the pitch feels like a ghost and symbolises the poor structure of the squad.

Spot on!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Strange that people are so vitriolic about the one player who has come into the side and actually made a difference. Brendan has chopped and changed his line up umpteen times this season without much actually changing out on the field but he brings Lucas in and suddenly we string a couple of wins together and only concede 1 goal. Coincidence?
Lucas isn't a spectacular player who catches the eye with 50 yard raking passes or an ability to sprint and home in on opposition players like Mascherano but that doesn't mean he isnt a very effective player. He stops the opposition by doing the subtle things that Gerrard didn't do i.e blocking passing lanes, giving away smart 'tactical' fouls, picking up runners, knowing when to press/drop off and generally being in the right place at the right time.
Away at Madrid he was at the heart of a scratch team that was up against the likes of Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema et al but he marshalled the defence superbly.
Every team needs spectacular players who can change games in an instant but you also need players like Lucas too.

[RedAnt]

Strange that people are so vitriolic about the one player who has come into the side and actually made a difference. Brendan has chopped and changed his line up umpteen times this season without much actually changing out on the field but he brings Lucas in and suddenly we string a couple of wins together and only concede 1 goal. Coincidence?
Lucas isn't a spectacular player who catches the eye with 50 yard raking passes or an ability to sprint and home in on opposition players like Mascherano but that doesn't mean he isnt a very effective player. He stops the opposition by doing the subtle things that Gerrard didn't do i.e blocking passing lanes, giving away smart 'tactical' fouls, picking up runners, knowing when to press/drop off and generally being in the right place at the right time.
Away at Madrid he was at the heart of a scratch team that was up against the likes of Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema et al but he marshalled the defence superbly.
Every team needs spectacular players who can change games in an instant but you also need players like Lucas too.

Mate, perspective... He's performed adequately against Stoke and Leicster (two teams that were our bread and butter once upon a time) and helped stabilise a sinking ship. But my point goes deeper than our last two matches. The ship shouldn't be sinking. It's sinking because Lucas is our best DM. It's sinking because throughout the squad are players who are willing to run and work but without great quality. These guys are footballers and are paid a fortune. The very least they can do is work hard. Raise the bar!

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

Strange that people are so vitriolic about the one player who has come into the side and actually made a difference. Brendan has chopped and changed his line up umpteen times this season without much actually changing out on the field but he brings Lucas in and suddenly we string a couple of wins together and only concede 1 goal. Coincidence?
Lucas isn't a spectacular player who catches the eye with 50 yard raking passes or an ability to sprint and home in on opposition players like Mascherano but that doesn't mean he isnt a very effective player. He stops the opposition by doing the subtle things that Gerrard didn't do i.e blocking passing lanes, giving away smart 'tactical' fouls, picking up runners, knowing when to press/drop off and generally being in the right place at the right time.
Away at Madrid he was at the heart of a scratch team that was up against the likes of Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema et al but he marshalled the defence superbly.
Every team needs spectacular players who can change games in an instant but you also need players like Lucas too.

Mate, perspective... He's performed adequately against Stoke and Leicster (two teams that were our bread and butter once upon a time) and helped stabilise a sinking ship. But my point goes deeper than our last two matches. The ship shouldn't be sinking. It's sinking because Lucas is our best DM. It's sinking because throughout the squad are players who are willing to run and work but without great quality. These guys are footballers and are paid a fortune. The very least they can do is work hard. Raise the bar!

Lucas has had nothing to do with our poor form though mate so why is he coming in for so much stick? He wasn't on the pitch when we lost to the likes of Villa, Palace, Basel, Newcastle, City, Madrid (at Anfield), Chelsea and West Ham. Every game he has played in this season we have done quite well, even Madrid away.
Lucas has always done well for us just as long as he isn't paired with Gerrard in the middle, last year when Gerrard was out injured Lucas came into the side just as we hit our toughest run of fixtures and did very, very well.
We smashed Spurs at their place and were very unlucky not to get anything from our away trips to City and Chelsea too. We would have been 2-0 up at City but for a horrendous offside decision against Sterling and Chelsea got the rub of the green against us as well, Eto'o should have been sent off in the first minute for a horror tackle on Hendo and how the ref never gave a pen when the same player brought down Suarez off the ball god only knows.

[ConnO'var]

I have championed him for a long time and feel that he is a tidy footballer. But he is not the answer. He is way too one dimensional and occupies one of the precious midfield slots. I agree that every team needs a DM but Lucas only focuses on this and provides zero impetus in every other way. He is more of a central defender played higher up the field. Yes, his presence has made us more solid in defense but he can be very dangerous as he gives away far too many fouls. While this is good at breaking up the play and helps in keeping the opponents momentum curbed, this will also leave us very open to vulnerabilties from set plays. Most of the good sides don't rely too much on set plays for their goals.... but a vast majority of struggling teams and mid to lower table teams do. They focus on that in their training. As such, with him in the team, we may have issues against these teams and can put unnecessary pressure on our already shaky keeper.

[red till i die!!]

He deserves to hold on to his starting role based on his last few performances. He has been solid enough at a time when we need it and for that I'm glad he never left in the summer even though I don't rate the lad highly.

we could and should have done better with the money spent and again rodgers deserves criticism over having to rely on a fringe player ahead of one of his own purchases.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Its apparent Lucas will never be appreciated on here ,and these latest protestations from the more insentient amongst our happy throng of posters that 'he gives
away too many fouls' is frankly risible. Lucas is the defining reason we're still not plummeting down the table and dropping deeper than that budding gynaecologist
'Bill Cosby's' career ,add to the fact he has afforded the team more than a degree of combativeness in the middle.

I suppose I should comfort myself with the thought, he's more than appreciated  by those more discerning folk that sit in the Kop ....Strange people those Kopites
they love a tackle ,actually the away fans at Leicester put their collective hands together as well, must be something in the water   

[RedAnt]

Well RGB, to me it seems you only strengthen the case against him. Lucas is a fringe player but has come into a team in free fall and that coincides with the sudden halt to our descent. But Toure has played too... another fringe player. So two fringe players come in and suddenly folk are upbeat because we beat Stoke and Leicster. The only reason people consider these victories as a turning point, or a springboard into better times is because we're performing so badly. Personally I think we would have won these two games even without Lucas.
But it's a sign of just how low BR has lowered expectations that rather than us talking about how our new DM has made the difference that will see us go that extra mile and get 1st instead of last years second, we're now hailing Lucas' return to the 1st team and the subsequent 2 victories against Stoke and bottom of the league Leicster as the point where we can start to drive forwards.
This season was one giant leap for Suarez and two giant steps back for LFC.
I understand the need to lift spirits and to take a happy stance, but putting Lucas up on a pedestal for such 'achievements' in out last two games merely states how far we've fallen since only last season.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Dont fret too much ,in light of the lads propensity for proposing a defence against the opposition we will possibly see him garner enough yellows for a ban
thus affording you and your ilk the opportunity to double your post count.