Le flops what houllier bought - And the consequences because of them

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Fri May 05, 2006 5:08 pm

Good thread...it's fun to revisit the old debates sometimes!

No question, Houllier made some dubious transfer decisions in his time but Ciggy's list of good Houllier buys in the initial post (Hamman, Hyypia, Henchoz, Riise, Finnan, Kewell...and I'd add Dudek for his Istanbul heroics alone) got me thinking...

Who would you rather have in charge of the LFC transfer kitty, GH or Jose Mourinho?  Think about it...who has Jose brought in over the last two years?

1) Carvalho (solid but not great as a defender, although he is a world-class w.anker...Gallas should be playing in the centre instead)

2) Ferreira (solid but not a world-beater...better than Johnson, though)

3) Del Horno (a feckin' joke!  Bridge is better.)

4) Essien (has quality but has underperformed this season and the system doesn't get the best from him)

5) Maniche ( :laugh: )

6) Jirosek ( :laugh: )

7) SWP (paid silly money for a lad that rarely makes the bench, probably so his rivals wouldn't sign him...lunacy)

8) Drogba (infuriating but fairly effective, TBH...perhaps Jose's best signing)

I may have missed some but the point is that Jose's signings have not set the league alight.  Indeed, were it not for the established quality in the side already (Terry, Galas, Cech, Lampard, Duff, Cole, Crespo, Gudjonssen, Makelele, Robben)...where the feck would Chelsea be now?  The guy seems to be a good motivator and gets his team playing as a cohesive, hard-to-break-down unit, but his eye for talent in the transfer market has been appalling.  He's lucky that Roman doesn't feel the financial pinch when his transfers fail. 

Given the quality, longevity and ongoing importance of some of Houllier's buys (noted above)...I'd definitely give him a transfer kitty ahead of Jose!
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Postby dawson99 » Fri May 05, 2006 5:16 pm

u gotta remember before u slag off houllier too much that he was bringing in wanted players. Diouff was signed before the world cup and looked a snip, as did diao. Pongolle and le tallec were seen as the future of france, and cheyrou was wanted all over europe.

sami and risse have been two of the best signings in the history of our club money wise. We have never had any luck with keepers and babbel was injured which was very unfortunate. some very bad signings when he was with us, but what manager didnt with there clubs?
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Postby Mark 23 » Sat May 06, 2006 3:44 am

Bad Bob wrote:Good thread...it's fun to revisit the old debates sometimes!

No question, Houllier made some dubious transfer decisions in his time but Ciggy's list of good Houllier buys in the initial post (Hamman, Hyypia, Henchoz, Riise, Finnan, Kewell...and I'd add Dudek for his Istanbul heroics alone) got me thinking...

Who would you rather have in charge of the LFC transfer kitty, GH or Jose Mourinho?  Think about it...who has Jose brought in over the last two years?

1) Carvalho (solid but not great as a defender, although he is a world-class w.anker...Gallas should be playing in the centre instead)

2) Ferreira (solid but not a world-beater...better than Johnson, though)

3) Del Horno (a feckin' joke!  Bridge is better.)

4) Essien (has quality but has underperformed this season and the system doesn't get the best from him)

5) Maniche ( :laugh: )

6) Jirosek ( :laugh: )

7) SWP (paid silly money for a lad that rarely makes the bench, probably so his rivals wouldn't sign him...lunacy)

8) Drogba (infuriating but fairly effective, TBH...perhaps Jose's best signing)

I may have missed some but the point is that Jose's signings have not set the league alight.  Indeed, were it not for the established quality in the side already (Terry, Galas, Cech, Lampard, Duff, Cole, Crespo, Gudjonssen, Makelele, Robben)...where the feck would Chelsea be now?  The guy seems to be a good motivator and gets his team playing as a cohesive, hard-to-break-down unit, but his eye for talent in the transfer market has been appalling.  He's lucky that Roman doesn't feel the financial pinch when his transfers fail. 

Given the quality, longevity and ongoing importance of some of Houllier's buys (noted above)...I'd definitely give him a transfer kitty ahead of Jose!

Some good points raised there about Chelsea.  Somebody told me after Liverpool won the Cl, Houllier was interviewed and he was meant to have been bitter, saying people should remember 10 of those players were my signings.
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Postby Mark 23 » Sat May 06, 2006 3:47 am

stmichael wrote:just on the players who are out on loan, le tallec is suderlands top scorer this season....














with 5 goals :laugh:

He is meant to have a right attitude as well, silly little dickhead, he cam eback off loan last season demanding a place in the starting 11.  Although 5 goals with Sunderland isn't a bad tally, they only scored 25 as of today's league table
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Postby Cool Hand Luke » Sat May 06, 2006 10:37 pm

Allegedly £116m spent, £47m recouped which equals a turnover of -£69m

Liverpool transfer dealings under Gerard Houllier (appointed sole manager 12.11.98):

IN: Ferri (£1.5m), Kippe (£700,000), Song (£2.7m), Traore (£550,000), Camara (£2.8m), Hyypia (£2.6m), Meijer (free), Henchoz (£3.5m), Westerveld (£4m), Hamann (£8m), Smicer (£4m), Heskey (£11m), Diomede (£3m), Babbel (free), Arphexad (free), McAllister (free), Barmby (£6m), Ziege (£5.5m), Vignal (£500,000), Sjolund (£1m), Biscan (£5.5m), Litmanen (free), Riise (£4m), Baros (£3.4m), Dudek (£4.85m), Kirkland (£6m), Anelka (loan), Xavier (£800,000), Le Tallec and Simana-Pongolet (£6m for both), Diarra (free), Cheyrou (£4m), Diao (£4m), Diouf (£10m), Luzi (loan), Finnan (£3.5m), Kewell (£7m). TOTAL: £116m.

OUT: McAteer (free), Roberts (£50,000), Harkness (£700,000), R. Jones (free), McManaman (free), James (£1.8m), Ferri (£1.5m), Yates (£15,000), Ince (£1m), Dundee (£1.5m), Leonhardsen £3m, Kvarme (£1m), Riedle (£250,000), Dunbavin (free), E. Jones (free), Bjornebye (£300,000), Babb (free), Boardman (free), N. Murphy (free), O`Mara (free), Gudnason (free), D. Thompson (£2.75m), Matteo (£4.5m), Staunton (free), Friedel (free), Song (£2.5m), Meijer (free), Camara (£1.5m), Newby (£100,000), Maxwell (free), Armstrong (free), Torpey (free), C. Thompson (free), Olsen (free), Kavanagh (free), Doherty (free), Ziege (£4m), Crookes (free), Hogg (free), O`Brien (free), Fowler (£11m), Westerveld (£3.6m), Navarro (£225,000), Kippe (free), Redknapp (free), McAllister (free), Barmby (£2.75m), Wright (£3m), Prince (free), Miles (free), Culshaw (free), Litmanen (free), Nicholas (free), McGrath (free), Peers (free), M. Murphy (free), McNulty (free), Dittmer (free), Heggem (free), Diomede (free), Berger (free), Arphexad (free), Nielsen (free). TOTAL: £47m.


69 Million over 5 seasons, that works out as just under 14 Million a season.

P.S. These figures only go up to the end of the January transfer window in 2004, hence the Cisse deal hasn’t been included.
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Postby Morth » Sat May 06, 2006 11:12 pm

Well 14m a season isn't -that- bad concidering the trophies he did get us, however, it's the wage bill that, for me anyway, almost ruined us.  I think the fact that we had a good 30-35 players on first team wages, loaned out or not, hurt us more than the 14m deficit per season.

Houllier had some very smart transfer too, looking back: Riise, Hyypia, Henchoz, Finnan, Hamann, Litmannen and Anelka (Although the reasoning behind not giving him a permanent deal at the end was hard to swallow for me.)

But yes, it did seem he relied too much on middle men.  I  do not have first hand information of course, but based on what we've been fed in hindsight about Houllier's player scouting after the 2001 season, I find it disturbing that the board didn't react sooner. 

Also, look at the 'keepers we've shipped out under Ged:
Friedel, Westerveld, James
And the ones we've signed:
Kirkland, Luzi, Dudek, Arphexad
Not much change in quality.


By the way, the next Maldini, Frode Kippe, is looking a real Hyypia in Norway again now.  He's f**king huge, winning everything in the air, on attacking corners as well, "pushing" forward à la Hyypia, and generally being sound.
I wonder if we gave him a second go...  :p
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Postby LFCFan4Life » Sun May 07, 2006 2:21 am

All managers buy players that turn out to be flops. However Houllier managed to spend a lot of money or buy players and never really give them a chance (why buy a player and then after two game sell him).

Remember Diarra? We got him for nothing from Bayern Munich and he never played a game in the red shirt.

Houllier has made good buys as well but it's the poor decisions he's made that he will be remembered by mostly. It's a shame because he really loved the club and won 5 pieces of silverware in one season.
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Postby 48-1119859832 » Sun May 07, 2006 11:27 am

I find it highly amusing that after two year of him leaving, some people still find it nessecary to bring up Ged's mistakes. The way hordes of Liverpool fans keep mentioning him (his bad points might I add) you'd think there was some sort of weird obsession with him. For your information Diarra wasn't a flop if you had seen him play you'd realise what a good player his is, obviously Ged never rated him and he left for Lens. And I believe Diouf was bought for £10million and then sold for £5million, correct me if I'm wrong.

You can blame Houllier for the financial state we are in now but if it wasn't ged it would of been someone else. And if the board cannot supply Benitez with suffiecent funds then they need to question there ability to supply for the future of the club and if they can't then sell up.

Yet another pointless discussion about Houllier which is high, wide & not at all handsome.

:no
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Postby 7_Kewell » Sun May 07, 2006 11:59 am

0asis wrote:I find it highly amusing that after two year of him leaving, some people still find it nessecary to bring up Ged's mistakes. The way hordes of Liverpool fans keep mentioning him (his bad points might I add) you'd think there was some sort of weird obsession with him. For your information Diarra wasn't a flop if you had seen him play you'd realise what a good player his is, obviously Ged never rated him and he left for Lens. And I believe Diouf was bought for £10million and then sold for £5million, correct me if I'm wrong.

You can blame Houllier for the financial state we are in now but if it wasn't ged it would of been someone else. And if the board cannot supply Benitez with suffiecent funds then they need to question there ability to supply for the future of the club and if they can't then sell up.

Yet another pointless discussion about Houllier which is high, wide & not at all handsome.

:no

good point.  It wasn't all bad with Houllier.  He got £13 million in total for Fowler (not 11 million) and we also got a tidy profit on Baros, because his deal totals 7.5 million.  Ok, an extra 7 million is a drop in the ocean to the 60+ million wasted, but it's slightly unfair to say it was all bad.  Houllier made some good signings (he brought in Hypia for 2.6 million) and also changed the entire mentality of our club.  When he arrived, our players were the 'spice boys' who would go out on the lash on a saturday night and get drunk. houllier changed that and that deserves credit. 

For me, Houllier lost the plot after his heart operation and never regained it again.  The fact he's trying to claim some credit for the CL win only highlights how poor his coaching had got at our club.  Why is it Rafa could win the Champions league with his flops and he couldn't? 

It's nice to see Houllier doing well at Lyon, but lets make no mistake.  Houllier had a class side ready made for him there, he hasn't been required to make any major signings and will probably only need to sign 1 or 2 in the summer.  Hopefully Cisse for £14 million!!
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Postby Houllier=LFC » Sun May 07, 2006 12:50 pm

Is that Diarra the same person who is highly sought after in europe now?
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Postby wee_boi888 » Sun May 07, 2006 12:57 pm

Diarra at Lyon is the one you are talking bout houllier=lfc.

He's a great player and will cost a pretty penny.
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Postby Mark 23 » Sun May 07, 2006 1:03 pm

How many times have I heard that about Diarra?
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Postby 48-1119859832 » Sun May 07, 2006 3:09 pm

Houllier=LFC wrote:Is that Diarra the same person who is highly sought after in europe now?

No.

Alou Diarra was our Diarra, not the one whose at Lyon.
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Postby tubby » Sun May 07, 2006 6:05 pm

Enormous new TV deals with the Premier League will significantly increase the reds income in the next few seasons.

The new 3 year deal starting in 2007 has increased the TV deal for live games from just over £1 billion to £1.7 billion.

Sky will have 4 of the packages, with new bidder Setanta hosting 2 of the packages, or 46 games per season.

The final deal, including rights to mobile footage, highlights packages and overseas rights looks set to easily surpass the £2 billion mark.

Around half of this money is split equally between all 20 Premiership clubs, with 25% based on Premiership performance, and a further 25% on the teams participating in live matches.

The big clubs, including Liverpool are likely to receive somewhere in the region of £125-£175 million over 3 years.

New stadium anybody?

Let's hope it's not all swallowed up by players wages, and also remember that in the end all this extra money comes from all of us who watch and pay for live Premiership football.
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Postby 48-1119859832 » Sun May 07, 2006 6:08 pm

If that's true then we should use that to fund the stadium and forget about investment.
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