Liverpool FC Forum

[Benny The Noon]

What the hell has Rafa got to do with anything .

I was one of Rafa's biggest supporters but seriously guys he left over a year ago and we really need to move on

He doesn't have anything directly to do with this but the same problem seems to be occurring where by we have players we know can play better but are not performing for us. No one is wagging a finger saying see I told you so.

In the 4 games we have dropped answer a question


Have we been better than the opposition and if we have converted our chances or not had a keeper on blinding form we would of easily won - currently its a matter of fine margins

We are creating chances ( another 26 yesterday ) but we arent converting them or hitting the woodwork ( 11 times now )or having a keeper have a blinder ( De Gay,Vonn and Ruddy ) . All it needs its a couple of goals to fly in and the tables turn and things get better .

Too many people are reacting to the result ( only lost twice this season ) .

[redtrader74]

KK I highly doubt Reg has been waiting this whole time to bring up Rafa. At the end of the we all want to see Kenny and LFC performing like we know they can.

I don't understand how we were playing with such fluidity at the end of last season but this season we are lacking that edge. Maybe too many new players too soon and not enough quality there so we have become stagnant.

Last seasons fluidity was down to Mereiles and Maxi playing around Suarez, now we have Adam and Henderson, less vision, touch and awareness.

[tubby]

What the hell has Rafa got to do with anything .

I was one of Rafa's biggest supporters but seriously guys he left over a year ago and we really need to move on

He doesn't have anything directly to do with this but the same problem seems to be occurring where by we have players we know can play better but are not performing for us. No one is wagging a finger saying see I told you so.

In the 4 games we have dropped answer a question


Have we been better than the opposition and if we have converted our chances or not had a keeper on blinding form we would of easily won - currently its a matter of fine margins

We are creating chances ( another 26 yesterday ) but we arent converting them or hitting the woodwork ( 11 times now )or having a keeper have a blinder ( De Gay,Vonn and Ruddy ) . All it needs its a couple of goals to fly in and the tables turn and things get better .

Too many people are reacting to the result ( only lost twice this season ) .

I agree we are not putting our chances away but to an extent thats always been something of an issue. An come end of season results are all that will be remembered, not if we failed to convert and kept hitting the woodwork. It's still early yet but we have some tough games coming up so it would have been good to have gone into them on a high.

[aCe']

What the hell has Rafa got to do with anything .

I was one of Rafa's biggest supporters but seriously guys he left over a year ago and we really need to move on

He doesn't have anything directly to do with this but the same problem seems to be occurring where by we have players we know can play better but are not performing for us. No one is wagging a finger saying see I told you so.

In the 4 games we have dropped answer a question


Have we been better than the opposition and if we have converted our chances or not had a keeper on blinding form we would of easily won - currently its a matter of fine margins

We are creating chances ( another 26 yesterday ) but we arent converting them or hitting the woodwork ( 11 times now )or having a keeper have a blinder ( De Gay,Vonn and Ruddy ) . All it needs its a couple of goals to fly in and the tables turn and things get better .

Too many people are reacting to the result ( only lost twice this season ) .

Thats an oversimplification of our problems. Ill give you one thing, with us playing expansive football and managing to get possession in dangerous areas, it makes the job of the manager somewhat easier trying to change small things around further up the pitch to get the side scoring goals. He isnt though and thats something of a problem.
That said, we have other issues that you seem to brush aside to maintain and support your flawed argument. Yesterday, we were exposed down the middle and the way the game panned out, we were very close to losing the game in more than one occasion. Ultimately, most will say that a draw was a fair result and we definitely didn't deserve more than we got on the night.

Im not going to go over the issues we have again but I certainly hope Kenny isnt taking the same approach to our problems that you are (although indications suggest he is). We are failing to win games for a reason that imo goes beyond forwards failing to score. Look at all the other top sides (Chelsea and Arsenal being prime examples). They all create just as many if not more chances than we do, but realize that changes/adjustments need to made to ensure possession and chances are translated to goals and ultimately wins. Chelsea have tried different options in the final third and rewarded players who make an impact (Sturridge vs. Bellamy/Maxi) with starting roles. Arsenal took a different approach and decided to build the side around RVP (Suarez vs. Carroll)... and so on

Most of the top sides made excellent purchases in the summer who made their sides much better while we cling to the hope that one day the likes of Henderson, Carroll and Downing will start to perform at a standard higher than they ever have even prior to us buying them.   

Bottom line is, the reactions are to a large extent warranted and justified. The results (despite 'only' losing twice) are nowhere near good enough given our ambitions for the season.

[Benny The Noon]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

[only me]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

[Benny The Noon]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

[only me]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

One must hope i guess...But it works both sides you know..While Spurs and Arsenal continue their momentum and we continue this 1 up 1 down displays we might pretty soon see their ugly rear....

I'm just not sure what we are expecting to change? My big hope is getting a hungry killer Gerrard back but other then that...Our midfield needs a major confidence boost.

[Benny The Noon]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

One must hope i guess...But it works both sides you know..While Spurs and Arsenal continue their momentum and we continue this 1 up 1 down displays we might pretty soon see their ugly rear....

I'm just not sure what we are expecting to change? My big hope is getting a hungry killer Gerrard back but other then that...Our midfield needs a major confidence boost.

If you think negative then you expect negative things to happen and will have a glass that is half empty .

[only me]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

One must hope i guess...But it works both sides you know..While Spurs and Arsenal continue their momentum and we continue this 1 up 1 down displays we might pretty soon see their ugly rear....

I'm just not sure what we are expecting to change? My big hope is getting a hungry killer Gerrard back but other then that...Our midfield needs a major confidence boost.

If you think negative then you expect negative things to happen and will have a glass that is half empty .

The upside is if you think negative you can only be surprised for the Good ,but yes i agree that is the way to live your life.

I'm working on it 

[tubby]

you quote Chelsea and Arsenal yet one team is below us and the other only ahead by 3 points .

Convert just a couple of our chances and we gain more points yet no doubt some will still whinge .

There has been one game this season where we have truely been awful - the Spurs game - the rest we could of easily won . Its small margins currently and its a team which is building - its going to be a slow process ( no matter how much money is spent )

Yesterday we didnt deserve to lose the game and going by chances we deserved to win it - Pepe made one great save and they blasted another over the bar - compare that to the amount we created - 26 chances including 7 on target .

Purchases made by other clubs is a bit of a moot point when you consider the players they were able to pick from due to them being in the CL.

We have to show paitence towards our team and players and manager - we arent clicking and we have had some disappointing results mainly because we havent taken our chances yet we are still only 3 points off a CL place - ill say it again - despite everything we are still only 3 points off the CL spots with plenty of time and games to go in the season

And surely what are our ambitions this season - realistically it is to get into 4th spot - so not sure how you can say they are nowhere near good enough when you consider how close we are

I agree with the spirit of your post but one can expect progress as time progress ,and while you see teams as Spurs and Arsenal starting to gain momentom and improve ,we are still moving sideways...

So Yes it is way too soon to lose hope or despair but it is troubling we have yet to see one great game by our team thus far.

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

Lot's of what ifs and buts there mate. What is Suarez carried on his form from last season, what if Carrol formed a great partnership with Suarez. There are a lot of ifs so far between us and a CL spot and so far none of them seem to be coming of and I don't see anything to suggest it will. I don't know why we keep persisting with Downing either.

[mart]

We are currently 3 points behind CL spot without being on a good run of form

What do you think will happen when we do click and go on that run of form

I'd agree if i thought our problems came from a lack of form in key players. But imo its due to a lack of balance in the team with the tactics we use.

[devaney]

Kenny has a partially self created problem THAT COST NEARLY £80M !! Carroll was a very expensive and rushed purchase to satisfy the demands of the fans who had already voted with their feet during the Hodgson debacle. If a replacement for Torres hadn't be found very quickly the club and the new owners would have been seen to be going rapidly backwards.Henderson and Downing were bought as the supply chain for Carroll. Two things have happened.The supply to Carroll has been poor and his conversion rate has been even worse.

The midfield in the second half of last season that consisted of Merieles, Maxi, Lucas and Kuyt was more creative and scored a lot more goals.Maxi was excellent and now he is being ignored. Merieles at times was top class and for reasons best known to the club we sell him to Chelsea? It is one thing robbing £50m off Chelsea for Torres who had  become a shadow of his former self but it is another to sell a very useful midfield player to an arch rival! Other than Suarez and Enrique our 2011 ventures into the transfer market are looking more than a little worrying. Time will tell but sheer lack of creativity and quality football has already cost us eight points at home this season.

[stmichael]

i agree about maxi. it's criminal that he's being overlooked, especially considering how poor our wide player have been recently. also the persistance with 4-4-2 isn't working. it doesn't suit the players we have and consequently we don't have a particular style of play. i know it seems ridiculous to use newcastle as a benchmark but their success this season has come from the basics and doing them well. it's not rocket science. everyone knows their job.

kenny also needs to make changes ealier during games. it was a bugbear of mine under rafa and it's still doing my head in now. bellamy needs to be utilised more as well as maxi. i'd also consider giving spearing a run at some point as adam has been inconsisten to say the least.

[akumaface]

Otherwise, we will be off loading players in Jan so we will start again.

Really? You think we are going to sell players after half a season with a massive loss?

Well, I'm guessing based on Henry's history with his baseball team. It is highly probable he will act this way as he likes to cut his losses. What if he will even get less after the whole season? He likes to minimize his losses as there is no way knowing if the players can regain his form or is a true bust....Anyway, Henry wants immediate success and will not wait to act.