Is rafa losing patience? - Article in the independent

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Sabre » Sat May 26, 2007 3:39 pm

S@int wrote

I think its more a criticism of Parry than Rafa. Which I presume is one of the reasons that Hicks and Gillette have sent over one of their sons to act as a "go between".

The shambolic organisation etc after the final would be laid at Parry's door not Rafa's. No bedrooms after the final! UNBELIEVABLE!!!



Yes in the case of this article I agree what you say. Plus, it makes a little flashback to 2004 to remind us how the things were, which is always interesting.

And yes, no bedrooms after the final is something I wouldn't expect at this level. More than unbelieveable, outrageous, if true.

When I meant the press I meant not this article, but the whole idea that I get when I read different journalists this months, which would explain why Rafa's losing patience, as the topic thread asks.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat May 26, 2007 10:20 pm

Benitez reveals the pressures that threaten to tear Liverpool apart
Last updated at 21:48pm on 26th May 20

Another Champions League final last week may have been historic enough, but Liverpool are entering one of the most critical periods — maybe even one of the most significant weeks — in their illustrious history, according to Rafael Benitez. And that is without contesting a match.

The game, instead, will be played out in meetings, on the phone, by email and fax, with the manager warning that if his club do not win it, they will end up as Premiership also-rans.

Within minutes of Liverpool traipsing the disconsolate march of losers back to the Olympic Stadium dressing room after defeat in Athens by Milan, Benitez used the post-match press conference to launch a calculated agenda about the need to sign new players — and now.

By the following morning at a naturally subdued team hotel, where Steven Gerrard sat forlornly on the staircase, the manager’s force had increased almost to storm warning, his mood darkening with each interview.

Benitez repeated his message about the need for large sums of money immediately. On top, he even speculated key players like Gerrard and Jamie Carragher might look elsewhere if they are not soon locked into long-term contracts.

Indeed, in what is a risky strategy that could well antagonise the new American owners, Benitez painted a picture of a club superficially thriving, with George Gillett and Tom Hicks talking about grand plans and new stadiums, but, beneath that, desperately in need of leadership and a new structure if he is to get the players he needs to deliver the vision.

"They tell me they want to win the Premiership and the Champions League," said Benitez. "They can do it, but they need to understand the business here. We need to do things quicker than Chelsea and Manchester United.

"If you don’t spend money, change things, improve in a lot of areas,we could fight to finish fourth. The owners understand and support me, and say they will back me. But if we don’t change things we will not be contenders."

Benitez had meetings scheduled with Gillett and Hicks for three days at the end of last week. Gillett was even quoted as saying: "If Rafa wanted to buy Snoogy Doogy we’d back him."

Benitez, though, is growing frustrated by talk without action to back it up. He believes that unless things move quickly, he will miss out on his top targets, who could include Barcelona’s Samuel Eto’o, Carlos Tevez — lately of West Ham — Sevilla wing-back Daniel Alves and Benfica winger Simao Sabrosa. Tal Ben Haim, the Bolton defender out of contract, is also believed to be on his wish-list as a squad player.

Benitez, off on holiday this weekend but with mobile phone in hand, will be ‘disappointed’, he says, if they do not make at least one big signing

He said: "We have the names to improve the squad but we need to do it. This is a crucial time. The conversations with the new owners are really good. They say: 'You can do this and this and this'. OK, I’m trying to do this and that, but when?

"I start to do this and then we cannot finish. It is something to do with the structure of the club and we must change it. If we don’t, we will lose targets."

Benitez sighed with frustration when he pondered the protracted negotiations for contract extensions with Gerrard, Carragher, Jose Reina and Xabi Alonso.

"Have Carra and Steve signed contracts?," he said. "I am asking you. Xabi or Reina?

"I was with Xabi and others after the game. We talked about the opposition, the tactics we had. It’s normal. It’s usually players like Xabi, Reina, Gerrard, Carra. They want to know you have good players ready to sign.

"We were talking about the fact that to renew the contracts of key players would send a message to other players, that we want to build a strong team. It’s the same when you’re signing players. If you bring strong, top-class players to the club, other players say: 'This team are going forward and growing’. But if we waste time, we can’t sign the players we want."

Gerrard, too, is on message: "If you look at the way we’ve performed in the league in the past couple of years, changes need to be made. But a positive feeling has been here since the takeover happened. The team will be strengthened, no doubt about that."

Michael Owen, it appears, is not on Benitez’s wish list, even if Gerrard and Carragher — and, for commercial purposes, the owners — might want him back. "All good players are an option," was the best Benitez could manage when asked about him.

Behind the Liverpool manager’s comments lies a power struggle within Anfield, with the usually understated but politically astute Spaniard seizing his moment. He knows the owners are not likely to sack him an that even if they did, he would not be short of offers, with Real Madrid having approached him in the past year.

Too often, he believes, he has missed out on top targets, above Juventus striker David Trezegu last summer and Serbia defend Nemanja Vidic, now with Manchester United, because the club were slow to act It is clear he has been at loggerheads with chief executive Rick Parry, not only over transfers but the pre-season programme, with Benitez unhappy trips to Holland and Asia in July have been scheduled when he wanted a longer training camp. However, Parry may no longer be such an important figure, with Gillett’s son, Foster, lined up to take on a senior administrative role. ‘But he is not here now,’ said Benitez who,when asked if the problem was that nobody could sign cheques, added: ‘OK, you know. You are clever enough.’ The manager emphasised:‘I am really pleased here, with the supporters, everything. I have a good staff with good players working hard. But other top sides have good players and good staff and their structure is good.We need to improve in a lot of areas and we can’t wait until August because the gap will get bigger.’ Liverpool fell short against Milan due to lack of penetration, against ageing and unambitious opponents there for the taking. It all strengthened Benitez’s hand for more durable players than Bolo Zenden, who is going, probably along with Mark Gonzalez and Craig Bellamy. Benitez has to shoulder some responsibility, too, for the current condition. Gerrard, for instance, is no Kaka — no second striker — and must be played in central midfield where he can see the game in front of him and attack space with the ball. And, having spent £100million in his three years with few conspicuous successes, the Anfield boss also has something to prove. ‘He is a great manager except in buying players,’ one coach in Spain said privately. But with many other Premiership clubs in the market this summer, Liverpool need to reinforce fast, then get off to a good start and show immediate signs in August that they are capable of bridging the gap with the top two, let alone hold off Arsenal. They certainly need the lift of a major signing or two.
-----------------------------------------

More fuel on the Parry funeral pyre.
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Postby Sabre » Sat May 26, 2007 10:40 pm

Yes, interesting article, more fuel on Parry, and some worrying quotes, if true, they're worrying

Have Carra and Steve signed contracts?," he said. "I am asking you. Xabi or Reina?

"I was with Xabi and others after the game. We talked about the opposition, the tactics we had. It’s normal. It’s usually players like Xabi, Reina, Gerrard, Carra. They want to know you have good players ready to sign.

"We were talking about the fact that to renew the contracts of key players would send a message to other players, that we want to build a strong team. It’s the same when you’re signing players. If you bring strong, top-class players to the club, other players say: 'This team are going forward and growing’. But if we waste time, we can’t sign the players we want."

Gerrard, too, is on message: "If you look at the way we’ve performed in the league in the past couple of years, changes need to be made. But a positive feeling has been here since the takeover happened. The team will be strengthened, no doubt about that."


Key players should be renewed as soon as possible.

In the Spanish press I'm reading that the Americans have answered to the last Rafa rants by saying that if necessary they'll sign up Snoogy Doggy (apparently an american famous rap singer) as in they'll back him completely.
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Postby flamingpoe » Sat May 26, 2007 10:55 pm

currently though rafaman has got voronin on a bosman! lukas "pezzini" leita looks like a very talented and confident player and sebastien leto seems pretty quick, and got a a decent right boot on him
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Postby account deleted by request » Sun May 27, 2007 12:13 am

My worry about this whole problem is not only does it deflect our focus away from signing new players and getting our key players contracts signed, but if the rift is as bad as reported, it will cause internal strife that could affect us for the forseeable future.

I am not sure at the moment whether Rafa's patience is finally running out, whether he has become tired of fighting against medeocrity and prevarication, or he just wants total control. Maybe he his just trying to move Liverpool into the 21st century. 

I was disappointed when Heighway, someone I held in high regard was pushed out, Parry however has seemed more of a clown than a CEO.Turning his phone off, holidaying while transfer deals are still going through etc etc. 

All I know is that if its true and not just the usual cr@p we get fed, its Rafa that has to be backed, but I wonder if Hicks and Gillette will see it this way, they have already extended Parry's contract and said that Rafa's contract will stay the same.
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Postby Kharhaz » Sun May 27, 2007 1:17 am

Who was the key player in the Valencia team that won the spanish league and uefa cup under rafa?
From what i understand there wasnt one, they played as a team. Maybe thats where we are going wrong. What if we left Gerrards contract as is, £120,000 a week? thats ridiculous, for any player, what if we said ok were not gonna pay it, go if you want. That way rafa would have no choice but to build his team like he did Valencia and not around one player.
The freedom he has at liverpool is nothing to what he had at valencia which is why he joined us, maybe the valencia chairmen were on to something.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby Sabre » Sun May 27, 2007 1:27 am

The Valencia chairmen let scape the man who brought them the liga title after 31 years.
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Postby Kharhaz » Sun May 27, 2007 1:29 am

but he did bring them the title, twice !
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby Kharhaz » Sun May 27, 2007 1:31 am

As much as i love the mighty reds im finding myself begrudging one player being singled out as the key, in the days of dalglish, hunt, whelan, barnes, hughes, st john never was there one player singled out as the key to a championship winning team.
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Postby Penguins » Sun May 27, 2007 1:40 am

I just love it the way they are digging up that 100 million figure and says Rafa has spent sooo much and has been able to spend all he want.

Worst load of garbage I've ever heard. It's the net spend that is what counts!
If Chelski spend for 80 million and manure for 50 million it means exactly that.

They buy a few top class players and practically sells noone so the net spend is still the same.
benitez has spent a pathetic 10 million on his biggest buy.
That is peanuts in comparison!
He DID not buy Cissé for an unbelievable 14 million and it is not his fault we will get around 5. Cissé is **** that's why we will get little.

Houllier spent 45 million on Cissé, Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, le tallec and pongolle. Totally wasted money and set us back years cause we will get back around 10 million for all those.

Sure, Rafa has also spent money on Alonso, Garcia etc etc and paid around 80 all in all.
BUT Rafa gets back normally around what he has paid for every one of his players when they are sold.
How many of our Rival mangers do that?
And I am 100% sure that if Rafa sold every player he has bought for us he would make a fair profit which in itself is amazing.
So Rafa had a squad when he took over that was the worst I've seen for years.  Just awful and he has spent around 40-45 million net in 3 seasons when there was practically nothing left of anything resembling a team.

And he made players even better when he came. Biscan, traore and Smicer all of a sudden became playable and useful at least and he made Carragher much better player than he ever was before.
So he has been forced to from almost scratch get a team than can compete with Chelski and manure using 45 million, the same as Chelski spent on Shevshenko and Obi Mikel or
Manure spent on Rooney and Carrick.

But ohhh how Rafa has wasted Money

He bought players
like Josemi, Nunez, pellegrino, kromkamp, Gonzalez.
Shame on him. He managed to practically make a profit selling those players and made no losses on those.

Just makes my blod boil when some say Rafa has had money to spent but just spent them badly, wasted them etc.

Worst load of **** ever  :veryangry
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Postby aCe' » Sun May 27, 2007 2:02 am

Penguins wrote:I just love it the way they are digging up that 100 million figure and says Rafa has spent sooo much and has been able to spend all he want.

Worst load of garbage I've ever heard. It's the net spend that is what counts!
If Chelski spend for 80 million and manure for 50 million it means exactly that.

They buy a few top class players and practically sells noone so the net spend is still the same.
benitez has spent a pathetic 10 million on his biggest buy.
That is peanuts in comparison!
He DID not buy Cissé for an unbelievable 14 million and it is not his fault we will get around 5. Cissé is **** that's why we will get little.

Houllier spent 45 million on Cissé, Diouf, Diao, Cheyrou, le tallec and pongolle. Totally wasted money and set us back years cause we will get back around 10 million for all those.

Sure, Rafa has also spent money on Alonso, Garcia etc etc and paid around 80 all in all.
BUT Rafa gets back normally around what he has paid for every one of his players when they are sold.
How many of our Rival mangers do that?
And I am 100% sure that if Rafa sold every player he has bought for us he would make a fair profit which in itself is amazing.
So Rafa had a squad when he took over that was the worst I've seen for years.  Just awful and he has spent around 40-45 million net in 3 seasons when there was practically nothing left of anything resembling a team.

And he made players even better when he came. Biscan, traore and Smicer all of a sudden became playable and useful at least and he made Carragher much better player than he ever was before.
So he has been forced to from almost scratch get a team than can compete with Chelski and manure using 45 million, the same as Chelski spent on Shevshenko and Obi Mikel or
Manure spent on Rooney and Carrick.

But ohhh how Rafa has wasted Money

He bought players
like Josemi, Nunez, pellegrino, kromkamp, Gonzalez.
Shame on him. He managed to practically make a profit selling those players and made no losses on those.

Just makes my blod boil when some say Rafa has had money to spent but just spent them badly, wasted them etc.

Worst load of **** ever  :veryangry

give me a break  !

this is a football club not a business...

if he makes shi.tty buys and sells them for more then he should be a salesperson not a manager....
ur case is craap...

i do agree that hes a brilliant manager.... not so good when it comes to player transfers...

id rather we have signed 3 or 4 world class players for the 80mill or so we spent on all the others....

thats why manutd and chelsea are where they are....quality buys not -mark gonzales bought for 1mill sold for 2.5-

just accept that hes not perfect for a change... the way u defend him sometimes... pathetic to say the least....

by the way peng... this is not aimed at you
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Postby Penguins » Sun May 27, 2007 2:18 am

Plz Ace

Explain to me how Rafa should bet all those 40-45 million on 2 players in 3 years when the squad looked like it did when he arrived.

There is just no way that is possible. He has been forced to rebuild the squad no matter what.
And do you honestly believe the signings he got were 1st choice?
I'd say not even 2nd choice players.

Many people says we just have to get the title and everything else is failure, yet there has been very little for Rafa to spend.
And once again it is the NET spend that is the thing so he hasn't had no 80 million to waste. He has only been able to spend 80 million cause he has sold for 35 million.

Has manure or Chelski sold for 35 million?
And even though he isn't supposed to be salesperson he isn't supposed to be able to make wine out of water either!
And football might not be like a business, but reality still rules football still.
If you get a total kitty for 40 million to build a team and you are expected to compete to be no. 1 and the rivals get to spend on any player they want, how are you supposed to compete. Tactical skill and hard work can only do so much if the skill in the team isn't there.

And i do see faults in Rafa, but those are not what I am discussing here. He rotates to much especially early in the season. He tries to change the team to much from year to year(which I can understand since he's amitious).
He plays a bit too conservative and is sometimes stubborn about changing tactics/players during games.

I could go on I guess, but I have been talking about his transfer dealings and buys. And with what he has been given he has done a fantastic job.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Sun May 27, 2007 2:24 am

yeah i mentioned it elswhere on here mny times, too many people think that rafa can do no wrong, some people really need a reality check.

rafa is a good manager but he does make many mistakes (i know some of you will blame it on money, injuries, world cup etc etc etc, blame it on everything apart from rafa).

anyway lets see what happens next season, see if he makes the same mistakes as the last three seasons
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Postby shades » Sun May 27, 2007 2:42 am

I should read all the posts but I'll do that later :D
Rafa has helped Liverpool improve but when it comes to buying players, he's really not good. Just look at his choices sometimes.
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Postby Kharhaz » Sun May 27, 2007 2:44 am

The only thing im questioning is why have one player who is a must stay as to where liverpool are going. I totally trust in rafa but he insists that gerrard is worth £120,000 a week to keep. I dont agree with that. Yes he is a very good footballer but is he worth that much?
I agree with rafa on most things but this i dont, im a liverpool supporter and i dont like the idea that one man makes a team, if he wants that amount to sign a new contract then forget it, let him go, i pay my ticket as much as anyone and i like the idea i pay to see my team play not one player.
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