Liverpool FC Forum

[Penguins]

Lots. Other than the GK and RB positions you can make a good case for strengthening every other position in the team. That's not to say that we need new players in all of those positions in order to challenge for the title, but in a majority we would need to significantly improve upon what we already have - and especially in those areas where we are particularly lacking in depth, such as the striker department. Unlike Mr Penguin, I don't think we need the wealth of Man City to achieve those objectives. Spurs and Arsenal have proven that it's possible to sign players of sufficient quality to challenge for the title (Bale, Van der Vaart, Modric, Defoe, Dawson, Arshavin, Nasri, Van Persie, Fabregas) without going all Man City. But they are still some way behind, you may say - which is fair enough - in which case we may need to venture that bit further; but while we may need two or three in the £25m+ bracket, it still isn't necessary to splash out Man City money on every single one. When we do go for a player in that bracket, though, we will have a lot less margin for error. That's one of the reasons I don't feel comfortable with the Suarez rumours. The kind of money being talked about in his case should be reserved for, IMO, genuinely "world class" players like Aguero and potentially David Luiz....but they are probably out of range at this present moment. Without sufficient improvement to the squad we won't, I feel, be able to seriously challenge for the title but it is not the only part of that equation.

Where have I stated that we need City money?

I said a couple of hundred of millions. City have spent billions...
You are talking as if we will spend every single penny efficiently and not make a single mistake on any big signing... Dream on!

Mistakes with transfers will always be made so you have to take that into consideration.

We haven't seen investment in the team for years and that is a big problem as we now have to catch up investmentwise for those lost years.

I love the clun and want us to succeed but righnt now we have players like, Maxi ,Kuyt, Lucas, Skrtel etc etc that just screams mid table nothing more.
And that is just not something you fix over a season or 2.

And then we have the ugly stadium situation which will set us back even further as we will generate less money than our rivals.

[LFC2007]

Where have I stated that we need City money?

I said a couple of hundred of millions. City have spent billions...
You are talking as if we will spend every single penny efficiently and not make a single mistake on any big signing... Dream on!

Mistakes with transfers will always be made so you have to take that into consideration.

We haven't seen investment in the team for years and that is a big problem as we now have to catch up investmentwise for those lost years.

I love the clun and want us to succeed but righnt now we have players like, Maxi ,Kuyt, Lucas, Skrtel etc etc that just screams mid table nothing more.
And that is just not something you fix over a season or 2.

And then we have the ugly stadium situation which will set us back even further as we will generate less money than our rivals.

City haven't spent billions on players, they've spent hundreds of millions, and you said for us to challenge we would need 7 players and hundreds of millions, too. So, that's something in the order of £30m per player, minimum. As Arsenal and Spurs have proven, you can pick up real quality for a lot less than that. Instead of Babel, sign a Van der Vaart, intead of Keane an Arshavin, instead of Aquilani a Sneijder, instead of Kuyt a Van Persie etc.. There may be one or two instances where we need to fork out more, but in a lot of cases £15m has proven ample.

[paisleyred]

Agree.
And with the potential signing of Charlie Adam for £6-10 million i think it is very possible to pick up v good players for non astronomical fees.
Fashionable players arent always the best for your club!

[Kharhaz]

And with the potential signing of Charlie Adam for £6-10 million i think it is very possible to pick up v good players for non astronomical fees.

If we pay anywhere that amount for Charlie Adam then that would have to be in the "daft amount" bracket.

He has done well for Blackpool yes, but lets not forget, in every team there is a standout player, it doesnt mean he is world class. Look at Santa Cruz.

[Penguins]

Where have I stated that we need City money?

I said a couple of hundred of millions. City have spent billions...
You are talking as if we will spend every single penny efficiently and not make a single mistake on any big signing... Dream on!

Mistakes with transfers will always be made so you have to take that into consideration.

We haven't seen investment in the team for years and that is a big problem as we now have to catch up investmentwise for those lost years.

I love the clun and want us to succeed but righnt now we have players like, Maxi ,Kuyt, Lucas, Skrtel etc etc that just screams mid table nothing more.
And that is just not something you fix over a season or 2.

And then we have the ugly stadium situation which will set us back even further as we will generate less money than our rivals.

City haven't spent billions on players, they've spent hundreds of millions, and you said for us to challenge we would need 7 players and hundreds of millions, too. So, that's something in the order of £30m per player, minimum. As Arsenal and Spurs have proven, you can pick up real quality for a lot less than that. Instead of Babel, sign a Van der Vaart, intead of Keane an Arshavin, instead of Aquilani a Sneijder, instead of Kuyt a Van Persie etc.. There may be one or two instances where we need to fork out more, but in a lot of cases £15m has proven ample.

City have spent 450 million just in transfer fees these last 4 seasons!
Then when you add wages averaging 50 million/year the outlay I am comparing to is nothing.

I am saying we won't need half of that to be title winners but if you think our squad is in any way close or near the top you are kidding yourself.

The table don't lie. We are a midtable team and if you finish midtable aftar a season that is where you belong with the quality in the squad.

After these fair play rules comes into play it is going to be even harder as teams like Sunderland, Newcastle might finish ahead of us with bigger stadiums and european football to offer.

We need to fork out big as there are so many average players in the squad and what's even worse is that most are old and will have little or no resale value at all.

We will make mistakes in the transfer market, live with it!
This means we will have to fork our more than in you dream world where every single buy is a success.

For example, while we have even gone plus on transfers over these last few seasons selling, Alonso, masch etc and done nothing about our stadium, Spurs have invested heavily, have a better squad than us, overtaken our top 4 status and is far ahead with their stadium planning.

It is always harder to get back when you loose that top 4 status than to keep it.
Spurs now get Cl money, more exposure, more income, better players want to join them as they can offer the best tournaments.
To offset that there is only one way. Be just as aggressive as they have been to get into the top 4 with transfers, stadium etc.

And that cost a lot more as our income is less and squad quality worse.

But keep on believing a few players willl take us back into a title challenge next season...

[The Good Yank]

I think we have a decent squad, but when it comes to depth is where Rafa's bumbling footprints are left for us to wallow in.  This side is screaming for both of Rafa's biggest man management gaffes.  It will take a very long time to get over the loss of Alonso.  Keane, for what he is / was, mind boggling to let him go when he was the only cover for Torres.  Even more shocking considering he had fin"ly started scoring only to be benched by the manager at the time.

[maypaxvobiscum]

we do have 5 or 6 players who would be very useful for the next few years - Reina, Agger, Johnson, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and Torres.
plus a number of players in the youth teams who are highly rated such as Wisdom, Pacheco, Suso, etc. but whether or not they actually make the step up and do a Martin Kelly remains to be seen. hence i'm very interested in Adam Hammil's progress. he is now at Wolves isn't he?

what we need now is goal scoring midfielders to take the pressure off Torres. i'm hoping Cole fulfills the potential he has. he would be so useful in unlocking tight defenses with his trickery. our team is badly lacking creativity. if players such as Krancjar and Modric are available, snap them up. there are too many times in the past where quality players had been available on the cheap but somehow it slips off our radar.

[LittleHobo]

we do have 5 or 6 players who would be very useful for the next few years - Reina, Agger, Johnson, Kelly, Gerrard, Meireles and Torres.
plus a number of players in the youth teams who are highly rated such as Wisdom, Pacheco, Suso, etc. but whether or not they actually make the step up and do a Martin Kelly remains to be seen. hence i'm very interested in Adam Hammil's progress. he is now at Wolves isn't he?

what we need now is goal scoring midfielders to take the pressure off Torres. i'm hoping Cole fulfills the potential he has. he would be so useful in unlocking tight defenses with his trickery. our team is badly lacking creativity. if players such as Krancjar and Modric are available, snap them up. there are too many times in the past where quality players had been available on the cheap but somehow it slips off our radar.

modric haha, he would cost 25 million now

nico though, youd pick him up for a decent price.

[stmichael]

I reckon we are about 5 quality players away but it all depends on how good the youngsters coming through are. I've been very impressed with Kelly and Shelvey so far and if Pachecho can join them then we are starting to look good.

I'd agree with that. We still need a top quality left back, an aerially dominant centre half, a striker and one, maybe two, out and out wide men.

[PabloMedina28]

If were talking about a team to challenge then id say we could with just Suarez and Adam added (not this season) If were talking about a team to go the extra few yards and win then id say about 4-6 depending how good they are.

1 left back - Cissokho, Santon, Coentrao
1 centre back - Subotic, Sakho, Mertesacker
1 midfielder - Alonso,DeFour, Yann, Adam
2 Wingers - Turan, Hazard, Chamberlain, Young
1 Forward - Suarez, Lukaku, Llorente

[LFC2007]

City have spent 450 million just in transfer fees these last 4 seasons!
Then when you add wages averaging 50 million/year the outlay I am comparing to is nothing.

I am saying we won't need half of that to be title winners but if you think our squad is in any way close or near the top you are kidding yourself.

The table don't lie. We are a midtable team and if you finish midtable aftar a season that is where you belong with the quality in the squad.

After these fair play rules comes into play it is going to be even harder as teams like Sunderland, Newcastle might finish ahead of us with bigger stadiums and european football to offer.

We need to fork out big as there are so many average players in the squad and what's even worse is that most are old and will have little or no resale value at all.

We will make mistakes in the transfer market, live with it!
This means we will have to fork our more than in you dream world where every single buy is a success.

For example, while we have even gone plus on transfers over these last few seasons selling, Alonso, masch etc and done nothing about our stadium, Spurs have invested heavily, have a better squad than us, overtaken our top 4 status and is far ahead with their stadium planning.

It is always harder to get back when you loose that top 4 status than to keep it.
Spurs now get Cl money, more exposure, more income, better players want to join them as they can offer the best tournaments.
To offset that there is only one way. Be just as aggressive as they have been to get into the top 4 with transfers, stadium etc.

And that cost a lot more as our income is less and squad quality worse.

But keep on believing a few players willl take us back into a title challenge next season...

 

[Penguins]

Well, go ahead and live in lal la la land thinking we are still a top 4 team, thinking this team can make top 4 next season, thinking that this season is an aberration and thinking we are so much better than Newcastle, Sunderland etc.

The team hasn't been invested in for years. It's is filled with old and average players. Take of the blinkers!

As long as the mentality of the club and supporerts are that work rate is the most important attribut in a footballer, we are going nowhere fast!


Give me 10 players who has skill, pace and creativity in abundance any day over 10 players who can't trap a ball, has no pace, but works hard, says nice things in the press and gives to charity....
Football is about winning.

[Kenny Kan]

6 players short.

[PabloMedina28]

Lots. Other than the GK and RB positions you can make a good case for strengthening every other position in the team. That's not to say that we need new players in all of those positions in order to challenge for the title, but in a majority we would need to significantly improve upon what we already have - and especially in those areas where we are particularly lacking in depth, such as the striker department. Unlike Mr Penguin, I don't think we need the wealth of Man City to achieve those objectives. Spurs and Arsenal have proven that it's possible to sign players of sufficient quality to challenge for the title (Bale, Van der Vaart, Modric, Defoe, Dawson, Arshavin, Nasri, Van Persie, Fabregas) without going all Man City. But they are still some way behind, you may say - which is fair enough - in which case we may need to venture that bit further; but while we may need two or three in the £25m+ bracket, it still isn't necessary to splash out Man City money on every single one. When we do go for a player in that bracket, though, we will have a lot less margin for error. That's one of the reasons I don't feel comfortable with the Suarez rumours. The kind of money being talked about in his case should be reserved for, IMO, genuinely "world class" players like Aguero and potentially David Luiz....but they are probably out of range at this present moment. Without sufficient improvement to the squad we won't, I feel, be able to seriously challenge for the title but it is not the only part of that equation.

Yeh but mate dont make the mistake of thinking Arsenal and Spurs dont spend money. Spurs managers have constantly been backed with money despite the little theyve achieved, it was just a matter of time be4 it paid off and Arsenal constantly buy players in the 15-20 million bracket. Its a myth that arsenal dont shell out on players. They paid 5 million 4 Fabregas when he was 15. How many 15 year olds do u know that have gone 4 that much?

[maypaxvobiscum]

Lots. Other than the GK and RB positions you can make a good case for strengthening every other position in the team. That's not to say that we need new players in all of those positions in order to challenge for the title, but in a majority we would need to significantly improve upon what we already have - and especially in those areas where we are particularly lacking in depth, such as the striker department. Unlike Mr Penguin, I don't think we need the wealth of Man City to achieve those objectives. Spurs and Arsenal have proven that it's possible to sign players of sufficient quality to challenge for the title (Bale, Van der Vaart, Modric, Defoe, Dawson, Arshavin, Nasri, Van Persie, Fabregas) without going all Man City. But they are still some way behind, you may say - which is fair enough - in which case we may need to venture that bit further; but while we may need two or three in the £25m+ bracket, it still isn't necessary to splash out Man City money on every single one. When we do go for a player in that bracket, though, we will have a lot less margin for error. That's one of the reasons I don't feel comfortable with the Suarez rumours. The kind of money being talked about in his case should be reserved for, IMO, genuinely "world class" players like Aguero and potentially David Luiz....but they are probably out of range at this present moment. Without sufficient improvement to the squad we won't, I feel, be able to seriously challenge for the title but it is not the only part of that equation.

Yeh but mate dont make the mistake of thinking Arsenal and Spurs dont spend money. Spurs managers have constantly been backed with money despite the little theyve achieved, it was just a matter of time be4 it paid off and Arsenal constantly buy players in the 15-20 million bracket. Its a myth that arsenal dont shell out on players. They paid 5 million 4 Fabregas when he was 15. How many 15 year olds do u know that have gone 4 that much?

got to disagree there. 4million is for a prodigy like Fabregas is considered peanuts today considering the amount shelled out for lesser lights such as Poulson and Konchesky. and if you were to go through their team, you will see the players bought are really cheap but more importantly, they can be sold for a much much higher amount. just look at the list below of players past and present:

Van Persie - bought for £2.75 million
Vela - bought for £125k
Vermaelen - bought for €10 million
Sagna - bought for €9 million
Song - bought for £1 million
Ramsey - bought for £4.8 million

Emmanuel Petit - bought for £2.5m, sold for £7m
Viera - bought for £3.5 million, sold for €20 million
Toure - bought for £150,000, sold for £16 million
Overmars - bought for £5.5 million, sold for £25 million
Adebayor - bought for £3m, sold for £25 million

the players who are still with Arsenal today are worth so much more now and the others who left were sold for a profit. not forgetting they have an impressive youth team with players such as Gibbs, Wilshere and Szczesny. even if they do make huge buys, it doesn't effect them that much financially because chances are, they will be either sold for more, or they will go on to be vital players in the first team. unfortunately for us, we're not blessed with such amazing scouts and we also seem to be pushed around by the buying clubs when they want our players.