Liverpool FC Forum

[Leonmc0708]

I think that this is the more truthful problem people have with rotation. Its not the rotation of the squad per say, but the rotation (out) of Torres that people have a problem with.

Its obvious that a kid who has never played in this league, and never played two or three times a week in a less physical league would have not only made all the difference to our team, he would have been able to handle the pressure. ITs obvious isnt it ?

No its not.

But he never needed to mate, he should of played the game against Portsmouth sat out the Porto game (to show where our priorities lie) played the Birmingham game, thats not even two games in a week never mind three.

I know by the thread you started after the Porto game that you think that selecting a stronger line up for that was better than doing so for the Portsmouth game but again we will agree to disagree on that. I think the priority is the league, and that we would be strong enough to go through in the Champions league even if we had lost to Porto.

I agree with this. Gerrard and Torres should have started against Portsmouth. If Rafa wanted to rest them, then the Porto match was the time to do it. Even if we lost we would still make it out of the group. It doesn't really matter who wins the groups in the CL because the vast majority of teams that make it through are all going to be tough games anyway. Then against Birmingham he would be able to field his strongest team again. All we needed against Birmingham was one goal and it would have been game over and Torres could have been replaced whether he had scored it or not.

Tell me how it is possibly easier to make up a 3 point defecit over 5 games than it is to make it up over 35 games ?

Like i said we only need to finish in the top two. A loss against Porto would be dissapointing but they still have to play at Anfield. It would not have been the end of the world. In the league though its all about finishing top and if we don't play our best players we are handicapping ourselves before the whistle has even been blown.

I am not sure how the option of finishing second in the space of five games against 3 other teams makes it easier to make up 3 points as opposed to playing 18 other teams over thirty five games ?

How are we handicapping ourselves more with a 3 point deficit to try and get 91.25 points (average winning most total last four years of Premiership) as opposed to a 3 point deficit to try and get to 11.19 points (average points total for 1st or 2nd placed teams in last seasons champions league group stage) ?

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever mate, sorry.

[Leonmc0708]

match winners win matches....the others help along the way

liverpool match winners....gerrard, torres

arsenals match winners....van pezzy, fabergas

man utd....rooney, ronaldo

chelsea....drogba, fat frank

these players play pretty much every premiership game unless injured..apart from us, our 2 play like 70%

Is it an act of God then if those teams win without either of their two specified match winners in the team ?

Also, if it is 0-0 with 10 seconds to go and there is a penalty, do one of those have to come off the bench (if both are subs for their team) to take the penalty ?

[Anfield rapper]

I think that this is the more truthful problem people have with rotation. Its not the rotation of the squad per say, but the rotation (out) of Torres that people have a problem with.

Its obvious that a kid who has never played in this league, and never played two or three times a week in a less physical league would have not only made all the difference to our team, he would have been able to handle the pressure. ITs obvious isnt it ?

No its not.

But he never needed to mate, he should of played the game against Portsmouth sat out the Porto game (to show where our priorities lie) played the Birmingham game, thats not even two games in a week never mind three.

I know by the thread you started after the Porto game that you think that selecting a stronger line up for that was better than doing so for the Portsmouth game but again we will agree to disagree on that. I think the priority is the league, and that we would be strong enough to go through in the Champions league even if we had lost to Porto.

I agree with this. Gerrard and Torres should have started against Portsmouth. If Rafa wanted to rest them, then the Porto match was the time to do it. Even if we lost we would still make it out of the group. It doesn't really matter who wins the groups in the CL because the vast majority of teams that make it through are all going to be tough games anyway. Then against Birmingham he would be able to field his strongest team again. All we needed against Birmingham was one goal and it would have been game over and Torres could have been replaced whether he had scored it or not.

Tell me how it is possibly easier to make up a 3 point defecit over 5 games than it is to make it up over 35 games ?

Like i said we only need to finish in the top two. A loss against Porto would be dissapointing but they still have to play at Anfield. It would not have been the end of the world. In the league though its all about finishing top and if we don't play our best players we are handicapping ourselves before the whistle has even been blown.

I am not sure how the option of finishing second in the space of five games against 3 other teams makes it easier to make up 3 points as opposed to playing 18 other teams over thirty five games ?

How are we handicapping ourselves more with a 3 point deficit to try and get 91.25 points (average winning most total last four years of Premiership) as opposed to a 3 point deficit to try and get to 11.19 points (average points total for 1st or 2nd placed teams in last seasons champions league group stage) ?

Your argument makes no sense whatsoever mate, sorry.

I would have thought it was fairly obvious but nevermind i tried. 

I just think its easier to finish in the top two of 4 teams when we are much better than atleast two of them than winning a league when we refuse to play our best team in it.

[Lando_Griffin]

And fwiw, I think Torres would have drawn a blank on Sat, as he seems to struggle against deep-lying teams.

Well then I think we got stung for 20 0dd million pounds, if he's never to play at Anfield then.

FFS thats bollox !

Well it would seem that Rafa agrees with me, and let's be honest - he knows a sight more about it that you or I put together. 

FWIW, Birmingham are the only team that will defend that deep at Anfield this season.

[Lando_Griffin]

I'll say again - the idiocy on this board is quite baffling at times.

To think that half of the gimps on here are actually employed by some poor sap to work in an office is even worse.

Dear oh dear.

Yeah I agree Lando, totally, I wish I could say after every poor perfomance "Rafa is a genius".

The mind boggles.

Listen - if all you do is slag the team and/or manager off, what exactly are you a "fan" for?

Seems pointless to me - it's like having a kid, then putting them down at every opportunity.

[Lando_Griffin]

And fwiw, I think Torres would have drawn a blank on Sat, as he seems to struggle against deep-lying teams.

Well then I think we got stung for 20 0dd million pounds, if he's never to play at Anfield then.

FFS thats bollox !

A very good point, that is what probably 80% of the teams that come to Anfield will defend like, including Derby a few weeks earlier, when he really struggled.

I take it you didn't see the games then?

Derby defended nothing like Birmingham. Nothing at all.

[Ace Ventura]

And fwiw, I think Torres would have drawn a blank on Sat, as he seems to struggle against deep-lying teams.

Well then I think we got stung for 20 0dd million pounds, if he's never to play at Anfield then.

FFS thats bollox !

A very good point, that is what probably 80% of the teams that come to Anfield will defend like, including Derby a few weeks earlier, when he really struggled.

I take it you didn't see the games then?

Derby defended nothing like Birmingham. Nothing at all.

Seen both and the major difference is always getting the first goal. If we had got it early-ish against Birmingham things may have been different.
derby tried to defend deep and were undone with decent goals, Babel's from inside the area, Torres's first picking the ball up with the defenders infront of him...on the edge of there own box...we dont need to get in behind teams all of the time, we do have players capable of working a bit of magic...the best striker at that is Torres, hence my frustration that he wasnt picked two league games running.
I watched the Birmingham game back last night and they defended in a similar way to Derby, and to the majority of teams that come to Anfield this season, they pushed out when they could...which was too often, they then got back in numbers if we broke...which then proved quite difficult as Voronin and Kuyt despite having the game intelligence that Fernando doesnt posess (which is rubbish imo) couldnt break quickly enough and we ended up getting smothered time and time again.
Rafa gambled not playing Torres and i dont care what anyone says, he is the best out of our strikers, not just because of pace helping him get in behind, but also with the ball at his feet and the opposing defenders infront of him he is far more likely to A) create and opening B) occupy more than one defender allowing more space for the midfield when they support the attack.
If you think that Birmingham are the only team that will come to Anfield with that sort of system then i am shocked and would be interested in why you think that.
Birmingham had started the season pretty well are not yet in dire straits but like most sides that come to anfield they didnt showmuch ambition.
There are about 4 sides that will all season thats obvious.

[jeff capes]

lets face it rafa benitez has not been all that great.

the trophies he has won for us has been down to individual moments rather than his tactics.

we did not win the champions league because of his tactics we won it inspite of his tactics.

we did not win the super cup because of his tactics, it was a cisse coming on with ten minutes to spare that saved us.

gerards goal in the fa cup final was not tactics.

what was crouch and cisse doing on the bench in the world club tournament and only crouch came on with 10 minutes to go.no suprise we lost that, just like we lost when he left crouch on the bench for the last champions league final.

this greedy clown wants all the glory so much that he would rather leave popular players on the bench and lose than have them get the glory instead of him and win.

i want him out unless he changes his selfish ways.

if he can't put liverpool before himself then i want him gone.

we have all seen houlier and his 5-20 plan aka i'm going secure my financial future at this club, and my best chance is to keep liverpool at a certain low expectation level.

once you reach the next level unless you maintain the only place is the sack, there is no chance of going back.

its not just rafa who should take all the blame, there are some players there who seem to think now liverpool has reach 2 finals they can go back to a low pressure season of fannying about.

i don't mind rafas rotational system but rotate the right players, don't leave players who have passion and  drive on the bench but play people who just go through the motion and is just thinking about their wages.

to me sisoko has lost his drive and sparkle and is just going through the motions. this is when you need an inspirational manager to give you drive and a dream.

liverpool seriously need some charisma around the place.

whats happened to the brazilian great hope, and the argentinian guy.

where is the plan for these guys, will they end up like pongole.

rafa and his deck chair team, that he can fold up and take away when he leaves.

[AB's Red Army]

we did not win the champions league because of his tactics we won it inspite of his tactics.

So it wasn't Rafa's tactics that got us to the Champions League finals itself, to give the players the platform to perform and win the final? Maybe it was that bloke with all those badges at the Kop that got us there instead.

Because it certainly wasn't Rafa's tactics.

we did not win the super cup because of his tactics, it was a cisse coming on with ten minutes to spare that saved us.

Who put Cisse on? Not Benitez surely, Cisse came off the bench by himself.

gerards goal in the fa cup final was not tactics.

Sure wasn't, but who did we get there in the first place?

Jesus wept.

I couldn't even bother to read the rest of your post.

[Lando_Griffin]

lets face it rafa benitez has not been all that great.

the trophies he has won for us has been down to individual moments rather than his tactics.

we did not win the champions league because of his tactics we won it inspite of his tactics.

we did not win the super cup because of his tactics, it was a cisse coming on with ten minutes to spare that saved us.

gerards goal in the fa cup final was not tactics.

what was crouch and cisse doing on the bench in the world club tournament and only crouch came on with 10 minutes to go.no suprise we lost that, just like we lost when he left crouch on the bench for the last champions league final.

this greedy clown wants all the glory so much that he would rather leave popular players on the bench and lose than have them get the glory instead of him and win.

i want him out unless he changes his selfish ways.

if he can't put liverpool before himself then i want him gone.

we have all seen houlier and his 5-20 plan aka i'm going secure my financial future at this club, and my best chance is to keep liverpool at a certain low expectation level.

once you reach the next level unless you maintain the only place is the sack, there is no chance of going back.

its not just rafa who should take all the blame, there are some players there who seem to think now liverpool has reach 2 finals they can go back to a low pressure season of fannying about.

i don't mind rafas rotational system but rotate the right players, don't leave players who have passion and  drive on the bench but play people who just go through the motion and is just thinking about their wages.

to me sisoko has lost his drive and sparkle and is just going through the motions. this is when you need an inspirational manager to give you drive and a dream.

liverpool seriously need some charisma around the place.

whats happened to the brazilian great hope, and the argentinian guy.

where is the plan for these guys, will they end up like pongole.

rafa and his deck chair team, that he can fold up and take away when he leaves.

You know what? You are quite possibly the thickest person ever to be let loose on a keyboard.

Wasn't it a change of tactics that got us back in the game in Istanbul then?

Who brought Cisse on, you imbecile? Any other manager would be hailed as a god for altering the tactics and rescuing the game.

But no - not Rafa. Because Rafa is an idiot, isn't he? He has no clue at all...

You cabbage.

What about the run up to these games? Who got us there?

I take it that Gerrard's goal in the FA Cup final was the only thing that won the game, despite having 6 goals and a penalty shootout? I suppose it never crossed your mind that had Reina not bad a couple of errors, Gerrard would never have needed to belt that goal in?

No, it wouldn't have.

As for the World Club Championship - it was a game we absolutely dominated. If you dominate a game, it cannot be considered a tactical cockup, no matter how much you want it ti be.

And the Champions' League Final 2007 - where we battered AC Milan, and were outdone by a deflection?

Yeah - a REAL howler by Rafa, that one.

You know, everyone on here bleats that Crouch isn't good enough, and that we should sell him, blah, blah, blah, but you don't half like to use his late introduction in the CL final as a stick to hit Rafa with, do you?

You Everton-supporting wum.


*EDITED AT MODS REQUEST.

[AB's Red Army]

I was going to post a similar thing Lando as it was tempting. Seriously that post by Capes was one of the worst things I've ever read football related in my life.

Shocking.

[cpc4eva]

http://www.soccerway.com/news/2007/September/25/benitez---no-guarantees-for-torres


Benitez sparked an angry reaction from Liverpool fans by resting Torres for Liverpool's recent goalless Premier League draws with Portsmouth and Birmingham.

But the 26 million pound striker responded by inspiring Liverpool to a 4-2 win at the Madejski Stadium on Tuesday.

"With Fernando’s pace you know he will kill defenders and he had a terrific game," said Benitez.

"If he is not injured and if he keeps training well, maybe he will start the game against Wigan on Saturday.

"We have four good strikers and I need to watch all of them. If you play well you have got a chance and as a manager you have to make difficult decisions."


"MAYBE HE WILL START"

tell me Rafa didnt really say this......

[AB's Red Army]

Err, you find that statement surprising? It's no different than anything else he's said in the past in regards to players.

If they perform and train up to his standards, he will play. If he's injured and not doing those things, he may not play.

It's quite simple to comprehend really.

[maguskwt]

people seem to forget that rafa needs to be tactful when speaking to the media regarding his players... you don't want to be seen as practicing favouritism lest it affects the team spirit... back in his office he will have his own opinions and will pick whoever... even mourinho doesn't say publicly "no no shevchenko not good... that's why drogba plays"...

[Smeg]

I thought you were banned Barry?