Liverpool FC Forum

[big al]

I would like to hear everyones opinion.

Houlier out, Why?

Houlier to stay, Why?

Don't knows, What your take?

[JBG]

I remember thinking back in August after watching Liverpool fail to win their first three games that it was time for Houllier to go.

Then I said to myself "Maybe I'm being reactionary here, perhaps I should give him some more time".

Now, it is almost December and:

1. We are fifteen points from Arsenal at the top.
2. We are in 9th place.
3. We are closer to Leeds at the bottom of the table (8 points away) than we are to Arsenal.
4. We have lost 3 times at home to our supposed biggest rivals.
5. A Patrick Berger goal beat us at Portsmouth.
6. Charton beat us.
7. We haven't convinced in Europe against medicore opposition.
8. We are leaking goals all over the place.
9. We haven't scored many at the other end.
10. Igor Biscan has been a regular centre back.
11. Djimi Traore is back in the team.
12. Emile Heskey is still in the side and not scoring.
13. Michael Owen has hinted he might leave.

So, I think it is now fair and reasonable to say that we are in the biggest trouble for years, perhaps maybe even the biggest crisis since before Shankley's time.

The biggest pro is that simply he'll be gone, and someone else will bring new hope of a fresh start.

The biggest con is that we'll get another Houllier, Evans or Souness, and have to endure another 5 years of false hopes and empty promises.

[big al]

Thanks JBG well said.

[THEBARON]

Yes JBG  has hit the nail right on the head. You know he's right , I know he's right , plenty of users on this forum think he's right but unfortunately our chairman doesn't. Until he changes his views on "the frenchman" we will continue to be sh##e.

[Owzat]

I agree with JBG and will add this - if we keep Houllier we will continue wondering "will he, won't he?". There is no guarantee he will deliver the Premiership if he stays another 25 years but then there is no guarantee the new manager would fare any better.

pros

- Fresh start, fresh outlook
- No more French wasters being conveyored in
- Anything has to be more promising than five defeats in thirteen games already. We're going nowhere - slow
- We aren't close to winning the Premiership
- Key players will leave if Houllier doesn't deliver soon
- Houllier has lost the faith of a lot of fans and probably the players too
- Liverpool is no longer considered a major footballing force
- Young English players may get a chance rather than young French players

cons

- It would be a step into new territory (though that could be a pro)
- A new manager might offload good and bad players
- Who is the obvious catchable replacement?
- We might end up with another Houllier!

I had to dig deeper for cons than pros, that probably settles it for me

[supersub]

Until January there is nothing that can be done to remedy any of the problems.Biscan is in the side because there is nobody else.With Finnan now out for 4 weeks the defence will be further stretched.Heskey...well..he's in because...GH loves him and so do sections of the red blinkered kopites,who chant his name everytime he cocks-up.
Thankfully Kirkland is now in goal.

[jonnymac1979]

Heskey has got to go.  I've ran out of patience with him.  I think the Manchester United game was the last straw.  Admit it now people. 

The first emotions that go through your head when he scores are shock and surprise, aren't they?

That just shouldn't be the case.  He's supposed to be a striker for God's sake!!!!!  He's not working as a ploy to beat teams. 

If you are reading this, get rid of him Houllier!!!  Or history will show he is a symbol of Liverpool's recent failure, and ultimately, your own.

[gaz31]

I RECON THAT GH SHOULD LEAVE NOW(RIGHT NOW) AND TAKE HESKEY WITH HIM ,
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FIVE YEAR PLAN WE ALL WERE TOLD ABOUT?
HAS IT BEEN SO LONG THAT EVEN HE HAS FORGOTTEN?
LETS FACE FACTS WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO KEEP HIM AND I AM STARTING TO WONDER WHAT THE BOARD ARE DOING ABOUT IT ,
IF HE WAS IN CHARGE OF ANY OTHER CLUB AND HAD DONE THE SAME FOR THEM AS HE HAS FOR US HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED BY NOW ,
I RECON ME AND SS COULD DO A BETTER JOB THAN HIM..........

[Cool Hand Luke]

I think we must apricate that Houllier hasn't done that badaly since he took over, I am sure the season that we won the treble, and the season that we finished second and got to the quarter finals of the Champions League you weren't calling for his head and calling him a dickhead.

I do appriciate that he has acheived success to a certain degree and that the board are generally patient and supportive to managers, but I think the time has come to tell GH that his neck is on the line and that he has till the end of the season to show some real improvement.

I have a feeling that this seasin is his last and I think it is for the best that he leaves at the end of the season.  But let us not forget that he has achieved some success and progression that he must be credited for.

[JBG]

As Owzat and I have said, the biggest con to Houllier going is that we could get another false Messiah in charge, who will spend five years getting our hopes up before ultimately failing.

We need to be 100% with our next manager's choice or else we will emulate Man UTD and go 25 years without winning the title.

Christ, we are already half way there...

[matrix]

houllier should stay and the main reason is to safe guard the djibril cisse transfer.....matrix

[big al]

Has I'm not long a member of this forum so I have'nt been posting my opinion here long.  If you had talked to me two years ago I would have told you the same thing.  Houlier has to go. 

I saw a lot of passion I from the team, the team spirit was excellent and to be honest the backroom staff were doing things I liked. 

However Houlier made tactical mistake after tactcal mistake. Only when he had been hospitalised did we start to make headway.   

Houlier had a honeymoon period. He'd got a team of reasonable players with some excellent home grown talent and got them playing good football. It's easy with £114 million to bring in reasonable players ( there were too many cr#p one's for me) and get them to play in a reasonable way.  The side roy Evans had brought togather may not have ever one the league but he some good players who Houlier inherited. 

Therefore based on Houliers own methodology the team we are currently watching has only in the last two years become his creation.  He's broke all sorts of liverpool records with this team. Poor records.

Biggest problem is he can't analyse the dynamics within the team.  Example  Dudek was very poor leading up to the shambles against Man U yet he still left Kirkland out. But that's just the start. 

Every manager at no matter what level knows that it is necessary to have a number of utility players.  Players you could put anywhere on the field who would give you an honest 100%.  Do you see any in our current squad apart from Gerrard. I don't. 

Yet when I look at the top teams and some of the lesser lights those players are there in abundance.

Scrutinise Houliers record and what you'll find is he's one of the best spin Doctors about, even better than Peter Mandelson and that's some spinning.

Houlier is all mouth and no bloody substance.

[big al]

Just one other thing as JBG said a while back, Houlier has bought some of the best potential talent in europe and ruined them. 

My veiw is that
Any idiot can spot a great player, it takes a great manager to make them great footballers and part of a great team!  Would Cisse become another casuality of Houliers failures?

[redandblue]

Worrying about getting another Houllier is NOT a reason to hold on to him. That's plain daft.

He has FAILED to build a side which is capable of competing at the highest levels in England or in Europe. There is NO other way of looking at it. After five years in charge, and a massive investment, he has failed to build a side which can compete with the best. Results are disappointing and performaces are frequently awful. There is no shape, balance, class or consistency to the team. HE HAS FAILED.

The Board has also failed in it's obligations to the fans by persevering with him. They are meant to be the guardians of the club's great and proud heritage and they have been negligent in allowing standards to drop so far. They have let the fans and the club down badly indeed.

Moores will do anything to keep him and even if we end up finishing in fourth place, Moores may use this as an argument for giving him another year. Really, it could happen.

I think that he should be sacked NOW. The issue then is....now what? We won't get a top manager with experience until the end of the season as all good managers will be tied up and involved in European campaigns. Personally, I'd sack Houllier NOW, give the interim role to Thompson till the end of the season (he really couldn't do any worse), and use the rest of the season to try to court either O'Neil or a top class European manager with proven experience of winning things (unlike Houllier who had no experience of winning things at the highest level).

However, this scenario won't happen. Houllier will remain as manager till the end of the season and if we fail to get fourth place, he will be given a Director of Football role at the club and he will be allowed to go gracefully on health grounds. If we do finish fourth, believe me boys, we've got him for another season unless we all get off our backsides and do what those two Liverpool heroes did last night by unfurling a banner saying HOULLIER OUT. These gentlemen deserve our thanks. That's what I call REAL fans who care for the club. If more real fans acted like these two bravehearts, we'd get rid of him quite quickly.

[JBG]

Worrying about getting another Houllier is NOT a reason to hold on to him. That's plain daft.
.

Nobody is saying that Redandblue. 

I want Houllier to go, as we have shown serious decline for 14 months (including the unbeaten run at the start of last season where we picked up a lot of points despite playing very badly) and he has been unable to arrest this.

However, what I'm saying is that getting rid of Houllier doesn't automatically mean things get better. Knowing our board, they will f##k up again and bring the wrong man in for the job. I don't think I could hack another 5 years of false hopes from another Houllier.

As for keeping Houllier in to safe guard Cisse's transfer.....what is so great about Cisse? He's another example of more hype than substance.